Why so many rules?

[A_maize]

I think even if it all can be drawn to that fundamental law, people will always obsess over the derivatives of it. Besides, it doesn't account for the 100s of subsequent cultural rules that arise as a result of certain Christian belief systems such as no rock music, women not cutting hair, a general implied rule to vote a certain political platform. I would call those unwritten rules pretty important for acceptance in some circles, because otherwise you will be ostracized from one group. Not that its a bad thing inherently, there are a million others.

I agree it IS easy to obsess over relatively meaningless derivatives. I also disagree with people who are against rock music, hair, or are vitriolic conservatives just because they think its un-biblical(now death metal I don't know...). IMHO, if you are in a church where meaningless unwritten rules are so important that people are ostracized because of it, then they are much better off outside that church.

The churches I've been to were pretty good at letting each person decide for their own how they should live their lives, though they did give advice or honest guidelines/opinions should someone ask. Sadly I think there still are many churches that are far to rigid as I think you have encountered personally?

 

[SithDoughnut]

I agree, though how Jesus summed it up was very nice, no?

He could have made it simpler.

 

[Yardstick]

Wow this thread to an unexpected turn.

I'm referring to Mathew 22 by the way.

34Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’b 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’c 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Jesus makes it very clear that everything relates to loving God and your neighbor.

I don't see the prohibition of alcohol as an example being about loving God or your neighbor. The only explanation I've seen is that it's a sort of guard. "Don't ever drink alcohol because there is the opportunity to abuse it."

 

[Zoness]

I agree it IS easy to obsess over relatively meaningless derivatives. I also disagree with people who are against rock music, hair, or are vitriolic conservatives just because they think its un-biblical(now death metal I don't know...). IMHO, if you are in a church where meaningless unwritten rules are so important that people are ostracized because of it, then they are much better off outside that church.

A healthy approach, I agree.

The churches I've been to were pretty good at letting each person decide for their own how they should live their lives, though they did give advice or honest guidelines/opinions should someone ask. Sadly I think there still are many churches that are far to rigid as I think you have encountered personally?

Yes, the petty issues of music, style and views came into play but my cultural problems with churches span most of the teenage years and could fill a page on the thread, so I won't even go there for the sake of my mood at not derailing the thread. Yes, you are correct, many churches are inaccessable to outsiders which is ironic given how much they preach about preaching.

To each his own, even if I ever agreed theologically with Christianity, I don't think I would be culturally functional in most of the religion's spheres but whatever works for others, more power to them.

Jesus makes it very clear that everything relates to loving God and your neighbor.

I think the argument (repeated from Christians) against that in a overly literal sense is something along the lines of 'if you love God, you will obey his laws'. Seems a bit coercive to me, but as far as I understand its a pretty common view.

 

[razeontherock]

Christianity is anything but simple. There is not just one rule, that is a totally false statement. There are over 500 laws or rules in the Bible. I shall show you some examples.

Deuteronomy Chapter 14

Um, got anything pertinent to Christianity?

And it goes on and on and on.. thou shalt not..

I have clearly demonstrated

You have clearly demonstrated no familiarity w/ Christianity. Better not to opine on that which you are unfamiliar with.

 

[razeontherock]

If he is going to ban us from using it why bother to create it in the first place?

You are quite confused: G-d did not create alcohol.

 

[razeontherock]

Huh? Christianity has plenty of rules. Make a list of all the things that are sins in the Bible, and those are all different rules. If you want to sum them up under massive umbrella terms such as "Love God" (which could include sin and faith and so on), then you could easily do the same for other religions. The only reason you see simplicity in Christianity and complexity in other religions as because you're applying blanket terms to Christianity and treating each detail as separate in other religions.

For example, in Islam you could sum everything up as submission to God. That's just one rule. Very simple. In Judaism, you could just sum it up as "keep the law". Obviously these terms may not be brilliant but you get the point.

No, in Christianity there is this thing called FREEDOM. You know, that aspect you never experienced?

 

[razeontherock]

Some call Christianity rules, I call it freedom. Salvation, a Lord who will never forsake you, and the constant revealings brought on by the Holy Spirit itself.
"For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery." Galatians 5:1

What I mean by revealings is that the more you grow in the faith, the more Christ reveals Himself to you. This of course is by seeking Him with all your heart, mind, and soul (Luke 10:27). The ways enforced by the law (which Christ took our burdens with the ultmate sacrifice because we cannot help but sin) are free in Christ,

Brother, where've ya been? I've never seen anyone else on this sub-forum post such a thing (although the guy who went on about Thomas Merton came close. Isn't he a Buddhist?)

 

[razeontherock]

The OP wanted to know why world views would set up so many rules, and here's one explanation:

Control.

My thoughts exactly. This is why I don't comprehend your disdain for what you refer to as "American Evangelicalism." (Or something) There's none of that. And if whatever leader turns sour and goes down that hole, it's easy enough to leave and find someplace else w/o that nonsense.

I've never encountered leadership to stay pure for 5 years.

 

[razeontherock]

cultural rules that arise as a result of certain Christian belief systems such as no rock music, women not cutting hair, a general implied rule to vote a certain political platform. I would call those unwritten rules pretty important for acceptance in some circles, because otherwise you will be ostracized from one group.

You do recognize that this is ENTIRELY separate from Christianity, right?

What clique you may be accepted into one day and shunned from another has NO bearing on G-d's acceptance.

 

[razeontherock]

I think the argument (repeated from Christians) against that in a overly literal sense is something along the lines of 'if you love God, you will obey his laws'. Seems a bit coercive to me, but as far as I understand its a pretty common view.

"Common view?" Try, "direct words of Jesus!"

And yes, those are perhaps the harshest words in the Bible. They simply cannot be avoided, watered down, explained away, or excused.

Ultimately, the path to the Kingdom of G-d comes down to obedience. Anybody else uncomfortable with that word? Me no likey. Kinda where the Cross comes into play ...

 

[Zoness]

"Common view?" Try, "direct words of Jesus!"

And yes, those are perhaps the harshest words in the Bible. They simply cannot be avoided, watered down, explained away, or excused.

Ultimately, the path to the Kingdom of G-d comes down to obedience. Anybody else uncomfortable with that word? Me no likey. Kinda where the Cross comes into play ...

Take it out on your fellow Christians, not me for the saying lol.

So I will go out on a limb and then argue that most Protestants are extremely far off then with their "Jesus loves you" approach seeing as how its not really the simple. Is that not a fair assessment?

 

[Zoness]

You do recognize that this is ENTIRELY separate from Christianity, right?

What clique you may be accepted into one day and shunned from another has NO bearing on G-d's acceptance.

Sorry missed this post when I replied.

I understand that doctrinally its a alien artifact of Christianity however, the two are almost symbiotic in many circles. Everyone has their cultural setting of comfort; many Christians have theirs too and its pretty clique-centered. Not that other people don't do the same thing, though, it's pretty much true with any group. I guess in a way I am saying "you take the bad with the good".

 

[Exial]

Um, got anything pertinent to Christianity?

So the Old testament is not pertinent to Christianity?

Just because its not the Bible you use now doesn't mean it didn't used to be. Gods word wasn't good enough the first time around you had to give it a update

You have clearly demonstrated no familiarity w/ Christianity. Better not to opine on that which you are unfamiliar with.

I'm pretty familiar with it since I was raised to be a Christian, read from the Bible, sang hymns. I may have given up my faith at a young age but I have still learned a lot about Christianity and religion since then.

You are quite confused: G-d did not create alcohol.

If God created the universe and everything in it then he certainly created alcohol.

We've even found it in outer space.

1995ApJ...448..232C Page 232

So, how am I confused?

 

[SithDoughnut]

You are quite confused: G-d did not create alcohol.

So John 2 never happened?

If God is not the creator of alcohol, who is this alternative creator?

 

[BruceDLimber]

One of the things I value within Christianity is its simplicity. Essentially there is one rule, the golden rule.

You are clearly missing the fact that the Golden Rule is present in the scriptures of ALL the great religions (not just Christianity), INCLUDING those far OLDER than Christianity! Quotes upon request.

You are also overlooking the point that all the rules are for OUR benefit, not God's!

And regarding a question as to why alcohol was created, it has far more uses than merely getting drunk, such as fuel!

Peace,

Bruce

 

[HosannaHM]

Take it out on your fellow Christians, not me for the saying lol.

So I will go out on a limb and then argue that most Protestants are extremely far off then with their "Jesus loves you" approach seeing as how its not really the simple. Is that not a fair assessment?

Of course it isn't simple. Was the example placed by Christ simple? No way! He was without sin, dying for all who believed in order to bridge the gap from sinners to God. No man is without sin, so to be "far off" with our Jesus is not true at all. Every Christain needs a relationship through Him, Christ the Lord, in order to reach God.

Our suffering can bring us closer to God than we've ever been. You may see a lot of bad examples of Christians in our society today (comprimising with the evil one like I mentioned in the previous post) making it hard to see our beliefs in action. But again. NO MAN is without SIN.

Soooo on that part of your statement, we agree. A lot of Christians aren't doing their best to "walk the walk", which is very sad.

James 4:8 says "Draw near to God and He will draw near to you." If only we could all practice this statement.

 

[Yardstick]

You are clearly missing the fact that the Golden Rule is present in the scriptures of ALL the great religions (not just Christianity), INCLUDING those far OLDER than Christianity! Quotes upon request.

You are also overlooking the point that all the rules are for OUR benefit, not God's!

And regarding a question as to why alcohol was created, it has far more uses than merely getting drunk, such as fuel!

Peace,

Bruce

I'm not suggesting that Christianity is the only religion with the golden rule. What I'm suggesting is that other religions seem to have extra rules on top of the golden rule. I'm curious what the point of that is.

 

[JJWhite]

I'm not suggesting that Christianity is the only religion with the golden rule. What I'm suggesting is that other religions seem to have extra rules on top of the golden rule. I'm curious what the point of that is.

Our scholars have deduced five purposes/goals of the law:

- preservation of religion
- preservation of life
- preservation of intellect
- preservation of wealth
- preservation of lineage/honor

I've seen a three point version that combines some of these together mentioned by Jewish sages regarding Torah law.

One shaikh once told us that life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is one way to look at these same goals, with life = 'life'... religion = 'liberty' (freedom of choice)... and intellect, wealth, and honor all falling under 'pursuit of happiness'. That was his way of looking at it anyway.

 

[razeontherock]

I understand that doctrinally its a alien artifact of Christianity however, the two are almost symbiotic in many circles. Everyone has their cultural setting of comfort; many Christians have theirs too and its pretty clique-centered.

I guess in a way I am saying "you take the bad with the good".

Not me! I call people out, and call a clique a clique. Good thing Christianity isn't a popularity contest, huh? This is exactly the type of thing Jesus spoke of when He said " a little leaven leavens the whole lump."