Why So Many of the Young, Restless, and Reformed Have Abandoned Calvinism

[JM]

I really enjoy Dr. Cooper's podcast and channel. He's a conservative witness to the Lutheran Church and I recommend his videos. In this video he addresses the Young, Restless and Reformed movement and why 'some' of the pop Calvinists left the Reformed Church. For the record, I was a Calvinist before the YRR movement but I believe Cooper makes some very valid points, points that I agree with, I'm just not sure jumping ship is the answer.

Let me know what you think of Dr. Cooper's vid.

Yours in the Lord,

jm
PS: I'm reading his book on theosis titled Christification. Excellent read!

 

[Sketcher]

To some of his points, I thought I'd offer this as an outsider:

As someone who was going to college and online at around the same time, I can't think of a single theology student (either at a seminary, or of the armchair variety) that I actually wanted to talk to about Calvinist theology. What he said makes complete sense.

 

[JM]

To some of his points, I thought I'd offer this as an outsider:

As someone who was going to college and online at around the same time, I can't think of a single theology student (either at a seminary, or of the armchair variety) that I actually wanted to talk to about Calvinist theology. What he said makes complete sense.

What was the reason you didn't want to talk about it?

As a Calvinist I can say we do get cranky.

Other Christians repeatedly attack us and some even go as far to say that we are not Christians. The church I'm a member of use to be bad for that. After services other Christians would spring on me and attack me for my Calvinist beliefs and ruin our Lord's Day worship so now my wife and I just leave as soon as we are dismissed.

 

[Sketcher]

What was the reason you didn't want to talk about it?

As a Calvinist I can say we do get cranky.

Other Christians repeatedly attack us and some even go as far to say that we are not Christians. The church I'm a member of use to be bad for that. After services other Christians would spring on me and attack me for my Calvinist beliefs and ruin our Lord's Day worship so now my wife and I just leave as soon as we are dismissed.

That's pretty much it, the crankiness and zero tolerance for anything other than strict Calvinism. I'm not going to say that the level of aggression that I have observed by Calvinists is exclusive to Calvinists, because it's not. But it's that level of aggression that does not convey that the Calvinist really listens to the other side. If it's not their interpretation of the Scriptures, it's heresy. No middle ground for an actual conversation. On an issue like the Trinity, it's understandable. On many other points, it seems excessive. So while I would go with them to events and whatnot, I would not talk to them about theology. That seemed to be the button that would turn an otherwise pleasant individual into someone I don't want to be around.

 

[hedrick]

I'm not sure all Calvinists are so doctrinaire. I was a Calvinist for decades, within the PCUSA. Many of our pastors still are. Maybe there's a difference between neo-Calvinism and people who are part of the historical Calvinist tradition.

The PCUSA tends to see Calvinism through Calvin, not Piper. The speaker in the OP notes that historical authors like Calvin tend to be more open to complexity.

I also think it's a mistake to define the Reformed faith by the 5 points. Calvin certainly teaches at least 4 of them. But it's the whole of the Gospel for him. You can make a good case that the core of his theology is actually our union with Christ (which he called "unio mystica"). The speaker said, without particularly emphasizing it, that Calvinism has answers to all questions. That can be a bad thing, but the fact is that the Reformed tradition really is quite a broad theology that deals with pretty much all major questions. That's not so common among Protestants. (Lutheranism probably shares it.)

 

[JM]

That's pretty much it, the crankiness and zero tolerance for anything other than strict Calvinism. I'm not going to say that the level of aggression that I have observed by Calvinists is exclusive to Calvinists, because it's not. But it's that level of aggression that does not convey that the Calvinist really listens to the other side. If it's not their interpretation of the Scriptures, it's heresy. No middle ground for an actual conversation. On an issue like the Trinity, it's understandable. On many other points, it seems excessive. So while I would go with them to events and whatnot, I would not talk to them about theology. That seemed to be the button that would turn an otherwise pleasant individual into someone I don't want to be around.

I can see that. I'm guilty of it but it has more to do with IMO doctrinal standards, the confessions...our Reformed dogma. This isn't a dis but unlike other non confessional Christians who have a lot more liberty in what they believe, and dare I say, no dogmatic standards? Reformed Christians inherited a strict adherence to scholastic dogamtics. Mainliners, non confessional Calvinists, are a lot less likely to care and will not argue.

We live in a post Christian North America and I can see why some people really cling to the confessions as a means of defence. They are scared of liberalism, how it changes doctrine and empties churches. Me, I can just be a jerk, not that I don't fight the urge lol

Yours,

jm

 

[Hazelelponi]

Nvm..

 

[hopeforhappiness]

Hi there, please don't kick me off. I don't know whether I can directly post on an in-house thread like this. But this isn't really a "ask a Calvinist" contribution.
It's going to be nice. Really, and it relates to the topic here.
I just want to say after 8 years of being in a wilderness, I have just been reintroduced to some Reformed doctrine, and I feel reborn. My spirit is singing. I understand what has been happening to me.
I have just moved house and so we have not found another church yet. Anyway, with COVID-19, I got hold of a live thread from the church we were married in 40 years. Basically they haven't changed, apart from having 2 church plants and having (is this OK?) a worship band.
The church is Jesmond Parish Church.
Thank God that after all those years someone reminded me of the glory of the Cross and the wonderful hope of the resurrection. That my hope is certain. I don't have to keep looking over my shoulder, for continual fear that I will be an unwise virgin with my lamp, oil-less, or one of those that Jesus will reject as having "never knew me". My sanctification is a life-long work, in cooperation with my Elder brother and Saviour Jesus and His Holy Spirit and in response to His wonderful gift.
So what happened over those 8 years? A cruel form of Arminianism, that's what. No Cross, No Atonement, No finished Work, No Faithfulness of God, just threat bible verses, mostly from the Old Testament, to exhort us continually to greater righteousness. (of course the preacher would disagree with that - he would say all those things don't need repeating - his prophetic call is sanctification) Week in, week out. And do you know, looking back, it made not the slightest difference in the lives of those who were weekly tied to the whipping post. Meanwhile the church gets smaller and smaller, more and more club-like, but the exhortations get louder and the work wider.
What do you think? Have you come across this?

 

[JesseRaymondBassett]

Hello,
As a member of the Reformed Church, I am absolutely not abandoning it now. During the time of COVID-19 and the protests right in my hometown (Minneapolis/St Paul), I need the Church and she needs me! I do not know why so many are abandoning it, but I pray this trend does not continue. We need Christ in our lives now more than ever before.

God bless!