Why so boring

[Laserman]

Hi,

Why is most Reformed Corporate worship so dry and boring? The absolute worst tennant of reformed theology is the regulative principle. Not that it's wrong per-say but that it's abused and stressed to mean anything new and exciting is bad . Why is praise and worship music looked down upon so? Why do we only sing OLD and Dull songs from the 1500s to the 1800s. Why is only piano and organ music considered spiritual? What is with all this USELESS congregational reading of creeds and confessions ? My PCA church has extremely dry and boring worship. Peolple are literally falling asleep by the time the sermon gets there. What good is correct theology if no expression of Joy is allowed?

Barry

 

[Foundthelight]

When in Harrisonburg, VA I attend Covenant Presbyterian, a PCA church. Very contemporary with praise songs, band with drums, etc. None of the standard liturgy. Almost like attending a Baptist church. I love it.

 

[ClementofRome]

Barry, you ask excellent questions. My answer would be short and sweet....as none of the above is in any way biblical, it is merely human tradition/convention/preference that dictates the worship styles and procedures, etc. Weren't no pianos or organs 2000 years ago, so a strict understanding of the regulative principle would prohibit these. Old dull songs from the 1500-1800s were written from the musical style of their time and not from the time of Christ, so they are in opposition to the regulative principle.

I would take exception that creeds and confessions are "useless"...however, the recitation of such creeds and confessions do not appear in scripture, so they may also be in opposition to the regulative principle.

I am sure I will take heat for the above, but though I am quite reformed, I think that a strict adherence to the "regulative principle" as formulated in the WCF is boxing in an unboxable God.

Just my take.

 

[bigsierra]

I've seen people complaining about worship in a couple of different congregational forums recently and really don't understand it. I don't understand how singing chorus over and over with furvor can have more impact than one of the old hymns that was full of doctrine. I don't have anything against contemporary worship. I just don't understand the disdain for the older hymns.

 

[Reformationist]

Hi,

Why is most Reformed Corporate worship so dry and boring? The absolute worst tennant of reformed theology is the regulative principle. Not that it's wrong per-say but that it's abused and stressed to mean anything new and exciting is bad . Why is praise and worship music looked down upon so? Why do we only sing OLD and Dull songs from the 1500s to the 1800s. Why is only piano and organ music considered spiritual? What is with all this USELESS congregational reading of creeds and confessions ? My PCA church has extremely dry and boring worship. Peolple are literally falling asleep by the time the sermon gets there. What good is correct theology if no expression of Joy is allowed?

Barry

LOL! I'm with ya Barry. My old church was very contemporary. We were too small to have a band but the songs we sang were a lot of vinyard classic type stuff. Very edifying, very God centered, and very FUN!!!! That's right. I said FUN!!!!

Anyway, after that church was no longer available to us we started looking for another sound reformed church. I found one that had fantastic preaching but they sang ONLY hymns. It was very difficult for me and my wife. I asked the Pastor why they only sang hymns and he said that the hymns were straight from God's Word and were, therefore, the most adequate in properly praising God. I told him that I agreed but that they were, nonetheless, hard to sing and not all that fun to sing. He said he understood and encouraged me to try and learn the hymns. I would probably enjoy them more if I knew them.

Contemporary worship music doesn't seem to be that prominent in the reformed faith, though I truly wish it was.

God bless

 

[Reformationist]

I would take exception that creeds and confessions are "useless"...however, the recitation of such creeds and confessions do not appear in scripture, so they may also be in opposition to the regulative principle.

I agree (that they're not useless recitations ). Good point.

God bless

 

[tigersnare]

I've seen people complaining about worship in a couple of different congregational forums recently and really don't understand it. I don't understand how singing chorus over and over with furvor can have more impact than one of the old hymns that was full of doctrine. I don't have anything against contemporary worship. I just don't understand the disdain for the older hymns.

I agree with you, I started out in a semi Charsmatic Church that had the rock band, dimed lighting, and lazer shows......the music was empty and just repeated over and over.

Now I appreciate the older songs, esp from the Puritans that talk about sin, God's grace, and our Lord. Lyrics that reach down inside of me and make me think. Not some emotional rollar coaster ride, that makes me want to jump around like a fool, then ball my eyes out like baby. That, for me, was worship of music.

 

[Bulldog]

Now I appreciate the older songs, esp from the Puritans that talk about sin, God's grace, and our Lord. Lyrics that reach down inside of me and make me think. Not some emotional rollar coaster ride, that makes me want to jump around like a fool, then ball my eyes out like baby. That, for me, was worship of music.

 

[cygnusx1]

I have seen both extremes and find it difficult to comment ...............except I agree with all the posts here!

 

[rmwilliamsll]

just a simple question:

is worship supposed to be fun?

if it isn't absorbing/engaging/committed perhaps the problem is US.
we are desiring to be entertained rather than to worship God.

 

[Laserman]

Hello,

It's not that creeds and confessions are bad in themselves, but I see nothing edifying about congregational readings. To me it just deadens the worship. Some perhaps benefit from this, but this could be better done in a home/family worship or small groups. My church does these types of congregational readings almost every Sunday, to me it seems like everybody is going through the motions, You know- Step one-step two ect ect. I see no real congregational beneit of this type of religous exercise. Come on, old Hymns are boring. Those of you who really like singing the Old Hymns, does your CD collection include these? Nobody really listens to this in their home or in their cars, why worship to it? When unsaved- unchurched folks come into our church and we do one of those old Hymns, the looks on their faces tell me loud and clear they won't be back. Old English Hymns just simply do not reach Americans in 2004. It's ineffective and unwise evangelism.

Laserman

 

[Irishcat922]

If you want to get real technical about it most Reformed Churches do not hold to the regulative principle of worship. Keep in mind most Reformed Churches make there Officers swear an oath to uphold the Confessions WCF or LBCF, Which are identical on the point of worship.

Of Religious Worship, and the Sabbath Day
​

1. The light of nature shows that there is a God, who has lordship and sovereignty over all, is good, and does good unto all, and is therefore to be feared, loved, praised, called upon, trusted in, and served, with all the heart, and with all the soul, and with all the might.(1) But the acceptable way of worshipping the true God is instituted by Himself, and so limited by His own revealed will, that He may not be worshipped according to the imaginations and devices of men, or the suggestions of Satan, under any visible representation, or any other way not prescribed in the holy Scripture.(2)

 

[tigersnare]

Hello,

It's not that creeds and confessions are bad in themselves, but I see nothing edifying about congregational readings. To me it just deadens the worship. Some perhaps benefit from this, but this could be better done in a home/family worship or small groups. My church does these types of congregational readings almost every Sunday, to me it seems like everybody is going through the motions, You know- Step one-step two ect ect. I see no real congregational beneit of this type of religous exercise.

Perhaps it seems this way to you, if those congregational readings include scripture, I can promise you someone is being edified and by God's grace those scripture are truely being a means of grace and changing someone's heart.

Of course non of this is on the surface(can't see it), if that is all we are worried about, that would explain the countless radical conversion stories of people that a few years down the line, are now no where to be found because the excitement died and all they had left were there boring old Pastors reading out of the boring old bible.

Come on, old Hymns are boring. Those of you who really like singing the Old Hymns, does your CD collection include these? Nobody really listens to this in their home or in their cars, why worship to it? When unsaved- unchurched folks come into our church and we do one of those old Hymns, the looks on their faces tell me loud and clear they won't be back. Old English Hymns just simply do not reach Americans in 2004. It's ineffective and unwise evangelism.

Laserman

Why worship to it, if it's not in my house or car? Flip this around, lets say I have 50 cents and Christian Augulera in my car, should I worship to that?

Worship is not about what I like, what I prefer, or how I want to do it. Much like the kingdom of God, it is on God's terms, it's not up to us to say, "God, I'll worship you if the music is rockin", or "God, I'll serve you as long as I can always have fun doing ".

Worship is not meant to be an evengelistic tool as far as I know. It's about praising and thanking God for all that he is. Instead of worrying so much about the music boring us, perhaps we should be thankful we had clothes to wear, food to eat, a car to ride in, a building to gather in, a chair to sit in, a teacher to teach us, and brothers and sisters around us.

 

[HiredGoon]

I'm tired of empty rock/contemporary worship music! I've seen too much of it.

Give me hymns!!

Seriously, I think a mixture of both is best, too much of one thing is never good, but I do appreciate the hymns more. Thats just my personality.

 

[calgal]

I'm tired of empty rock/contemporary worship music! I've seen too much of it.

Give me hymns!!

Seriously, I think a mixture of both is best, too much of one thing is never good, but I do appreciate the hymns more. Thats just my personality.

I agree actually and coming from a "seeker sensitive" church to a Presby Church was amazing. Exclusive Psalmody is not really my cup of tea but I love singing Psalms nonetheless.

 

[StAnselm]

Come on, old Hymns are boring. Those of you who really like singing the Old Hymns, does your CD collection include these? Nobody really listens to this in their home or in their cars, why worship to it?

Lots of people that I know do. Lots and lots and lots.

 

[Truly Blessed]

My 2 cents,

I first attended a tradition service at my 1st PCA church and found it wonderful. Old hymns, responsive readings, and reciting. It was wonderful - everything was directed towards worshipping/learning about God.

I switched services to a contemporary service in order to attend a Sunday School Class. I found it was also wonderful. Everything was directed towards worshipping/learning about God.

If worshipping God is boring, it is not God that is boring it is you! Only boring people are bored. I bet if the congregation all received a free 7 day vaction at Disney World but had to stay awake for about 1 hr 15 min. through the most boring lecture they would prepare themselves for it. But for a free eternity in Heaven - well thats a different story. Lets stay up til 2 am Saturday night, not eat breakfeast because we over slept, and of course not set our minds on what is before us because we just cant consentrate that early in the morning.

I have been without a reformed church for over 3 yrs and have found one 45 minutes from my town. Opened the Order of Service and found Hymns, responsive readings, and reciting. Amen the Word of God being herd again. Be grateful for what you got - you could have to go without for 3 yrs.

 

[frost]

Some say that contemporary worship is too man-centered. People up on the stage rocking out are the focus instead of our Lord. I don't fully agree with that (though I can see how it could be a distraction,) but there is something to be said about traditional worship. I recently attended a PCA church while out of town on business. It was just organ and hymns. I walked away feeling truly uplifted and humbled. My spirit stirred as I sang those beautiful hymns. As was previously said, I think its not the worship style that determines what you get out of it but rather the the state of your heart during worship.

 

[Laserman]

Everyone,

Seems there are good and bad points to either style of worship. I'm not sying that traditional worship is bad in no way-shape-or form. Still, for me a contemprary worship is more moving.

Barry

 

[Turn'D-OuT-DiffurnT]

Some of these points have already been made by others, but I'll drop in my 2 cents. First, it should be known that while most people think of worship services with hymns and piano/organ music as "traditional", it is not, especially within the Reformed church. Such has only been widely practiced for the last 150-200 years, and a good number of the more orthodox still oppose it. Contemporary praise and worship "God is my boyfriend" songs with drums and guitars? Forget it. A capella psalmody is traditional and, I believe, the only biblically defensible option, though I'm fully aware that many will vehemently disagree with me on that. Hey, I used to be one of you Until I made an in-depth study of the subject.

Also, Laserman, you seem to be very concerned about what the unconverted will think of stodgy church services without a lot of bells and whistles, that they'll be so turned off and bored that they'll run away never to return, and that such worship services are "ineffective and unwise evangelism." So, is the primary purpose of Sunday worship for believers, those who are already in communion with the Father, to come before Him in awe and reverence offering acceptable praise, or is it supposed to be like a Billy Graham crusade that's tailored to the wants and expectations of unbelievers? If the first, then why do you even care what the unbelievers think, whether they're just visiting or have been church members for years? Of course, they're potential converts, but I'm convinced that God is sovereign, and He can reach them even if they're at a church that is not catering to their every whim and expectation out of some deluded belief that they have to employ fancy marketing or salesmanship techniques to win converts and biting its nails out of fear that they're going to be rejected as "squares" by this or that unbeliever.