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Why should we believe the science communmity's consensus on climate change?

Root of Jesse

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The “scientific consensus” on “climate change” isn’t a real consensus, and even if it were, so what? In the 1930s, all respectable economists agreed that capitalism was dead, and that the future lay with “planned economies” and technocratic leadership of the kind thought to be working miracles in Fascist Italy, Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia. Back in the 1960s and ’70s, a similar consensus agreed that the earth faced a desperate crisis of overpopulation, which would drive us to mass famines, wars over water and copper, and a return to the Iron Age. To stop it, we would need to give massive powers to governments, even global agencies, to control people’s child-bearing choices. None of those prophecies came true, but governments did gain a lot of power, and in places like India and Brazil, the UN and American “charities” like Planned Parenthood helped to sterilize millions of people by force. In China, the communist government, again with such agencies’ help, imposed the “one-child” policy, forcing millions of women to abort their children and provoking the “gendercide” of millions of baby girls. Now we learn that population is crashing around the world, and not enough workers will be paying taxes to support tomorrow’s elderly. So the generation that accepted population control and abortion will pay for it in their dotage. They won’t be cared for by grandchildren, but euthanized by robots. Today we’re told by the same cast of characters who touted the “population bomb” that the same long list of catastrophes they predicted last time really will happen after all unless we give them lots of power—only these same things will happen for a completely different reason: global warming. If the climate stabilized tomorrow, it wouldn’t be long before the international crisis lobby would be predicting the very same catastrophes, for still another reason. Maybe an impending attack by Smaug the Dragon. They’re always panicking about a different problem, but their solution is always the same: to shift
massive power from citizens to governments, and from democratically elected governments to unaccountable international agencies run by the same kind of people who mismanage the Olympics and the EU. That seems to be the constant of the “scientific consensus”: whatever is going on, it’s terrible and will kill us all quite soon, unless we hand over power to the nice men in the white coats and those troops in the blue helmets. Then we’ll be safe. There was concrete evidence supporting the population panic, too. The global population boom was real, but it was grossly misinterpreted and extrapolated by people with deeply engrained ideological agendas. Those—including popes Paul VI, St. John Paul II, and Benedict XVI—who noted this and challenged the “scientific consensus” that there would be massive overpopulation were dismissed as biased hacks or religious cranks. The irony is that the religious cranks are on the other side. Elites have used their media influence to create a quasi-religious movement among affluent secularists that lets people find redemption by joining the new, sacred cause. And indeed climate change activism has become a kind of cult, according to a detailed 260-page report by the National Association of Scholars documenting how college administrators are devoting (collectively) $3.4 billion per year to transforming curricula, facilities, and student activities at their schools in service of the fuzzy zealotry of “sustainability advocates,” who present their “solutions” to climate change as urgently necessary to “save the planet”(as college tuition has skyrocketed far beyond the rate of inflation, along with federal aid to colleges and student levels of debt). The doctrine of “sustainability,” which damns market freedom and the Western lifestyle as poisoners of the earth and enemies of our grandchildren, is drummed into students’ heads via courses in science, humanities, the arts, and even mathematics. As the NAS demonstrates, free speech is being restricted on college campuses, as those skeptical of the need for massive restrictions on the use of carbon-based fuels are prevented from speaking to students—sometimes by threats of physical violence from outraged activists. In past decades “socialism” and “zero population growth” were the beneficiaries of the same zealotry, with its disregard for facts and the need for free debate.

Zmirak, John. The Politically Incorrect Guide to Catholicism (The Politically Incorrect Guides) (pp. 241- 243). Regnery Publishing. Kindle Edition.

Thoughts?
 

Par5

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Why should you believe the science community's consensus on climate change?
You don't have to. You can deny it without fear. It is not religion, there is no hell and eternal torture lying in wait for those who die in disbelief. Deny to your heart's content.
 
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grasping the after wind

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Do you always a equate refusing to believe something with denial? Does the existence of a consensus objectively prove that those within the consensus are correct ?
 
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grasping the after wind

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Because there is evidence for it.

Your main objection seems to be that it makes you feel bad.

Are you saying that there is evidence that a consensus of scientists believe something so the OP should believe it too?
 
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Root of Jesse

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Because there is evidence for it.

Your main objection seems to be that it makes you feel bad.
There was evidence for overpopulation, too, but it didn't materialize, in fact, it is the reverse.

My main objection is that the powers that be only want to become more powerful, and are constantly looking for a reason to grab more power.

Actually, my objection is that we over react to perceived crises. The sky is not falling. It never was.
 
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Root of Jesse

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The objection is not THAT the climate is changing, it always has. The objection is that the powers that be are always on the lookout for a way to grab more power.
Climate does change. People are not the primary cause of it.
 
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Root of Jesse

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grasping the after wind

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That's my other point. Why should we believe 'experts'?


For the same reason we must believe everything Biblical scholars tell us. Some people insist that those that work within a field are incapable of confirmation bias, looking out for their own self interest or being mistaken.
 
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JackRT

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There was evidence for overpopulation, too, but it didn't materialize, in fact, it is the reverse.

I don't know what alternative reality that you live in but overpopulation is still a major problem. It has been somewhat mitigated by agricultural improvements but continued population rise will soon overcome that.
 
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archer75

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That's my other point. Why should we believe 'experts'?
In general, I believe and act like I believe the consensus of people who do a given thing professionally.

Further, "climate change" doesn't refer to changes in the weather or even climate ovee long periods of time (millenia). It refers, here, to particular changes that are already taking place. Even a layperson can feel it.

In the 80s it was really cold a lot in Philadelphia and New York. Now that kind of cold feels anomalous. This is happening in the blink of an eye on a geologic scale.

You're proposing what is, in effect, a conspiracy theory - "governments" are paying off all the climate scientists in the world - when there is a much simpler explanation.
 
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grasping the after wind

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I don't know what alternative reality that you live in but overpopulation is still a major problem. It has been somewhat mitigated by agricultural improvements but continued population rise will soon overcome that.

Overpopulation is a subjective concept. How many people are too many depends upon one's POV. One can believe that the problems we face are due to overpopulation but from my perspective it is not so much that we have too many people but that we have too much corruption, too much power hunger and too much concern for status. I would suggest the amount of people we have now would have no problems surviving and flourishing if not for the corruption seen in so many places from governmental leaders and the need for others to conspicuously consume as a preening device.
 
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Nithavela

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I don't know what alternative reality that you live in but overpopulation is still a major problem. It has been somewhat mitigated by agricultural improvements but continued population rise will soon overcome that.
Do you mean the improvements that have destroyed two thirds of the usable soil?
 
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Root of Jesse

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I don't know what alternative reality that you live in but overpopulation is still a major problem. It has been somewhat mitigated by agricultural improvements but continued population rise will soon overcome that.
The birth rate in the majority of the world has dropped below replacement. But the fact is that the entire population of the world can fit comfortably in the state of Texas, with 1000 sq. ft. per person. Not to say that that's optimal, but the myth is that the world is overcrowding.
 
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Root of Jesse

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Well, I never said governments are paying off the climate scientists. What it is, is that, since there is now a pseudo-scientific field of climate science, those who are in that industry need to make a place for themselves.
Secondly, I never denied that climate changes. It does. We've had Ice Ages and swings the other way. What I deny is that man is the primary cause of it, and that man can do much to swing it one way or another.
Lastly, I'm not advocating that we just trash our planet. We are called to be good stewards, to not use more than we need to, and to put things back the way we found them, so to speak. I think it's telling that one of the most liberal cities in the country, which espouses that the globe is warming, and we should do something about it, Los Angeles, CA, has so many cars on the road with just one person in them.
 
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grasping the after wind

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Are you unaware that governments actually do fund climate scientists all over the world. If you wish to make a living as a climate scientist you do not open up a climate science shop on the nearest street corner you go to a government and propose they fund your research. That does not mean the government tells them what to do or mandates the conclusions they come to nor would I suggest that there was a conspiracy between scientist and government officials.but if the government does not like the results of their research,how much more funding do you expect they would receive in the future?
Then there are the proposed solutions that governments come up with. None of which actually do anything to change the situation if the problem is human activity causing global warming. Instead we have redistribution of wealth schemes that allow continued CO2 emissions. Serious attempts to curb we emissions would look a lot different. The only conclusion I can come to is that whether there is human caused global climate change or not, those proposing action are not interested in the climate at all but they are very interested in promoting their ideas on the way the world economy should function . Does that prove that there is no human caused global climate change? No. What it says to me is that there are people willing to use whatever means they can find to push their agenda. Whether that means fear mongering by using a completely real crisis involving man caused climate change or using a hoax is probably irrelevant to those intent upon prioritizing
their agenda above all else.
 
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archer75

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The question is not where all the human flesh can fit. There is indeed room for it. But could Texas support 7.6 billion people, each with 1000 sq ft of varied terrain? I seriously doubt it.

But there is no cause to invoke this. It would be just as easy to list all the times experts were correct and were ignored. The financial deregulation under Clinton. Economists predicted that what did happen would happen...and were ignored. And then, years later, it did.
 
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archer75

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There are incongruities in the world, sure. Some US Christians feel persecuted when someone disagrees with them or thinks civil law shouldn't be based on their personal beliefs. And some Christians elsewhere are martyred by being beheaded or shot.

But why do you say there is a pseudo-scientific field? What is pseudo- about it?
 
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Kaon

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Because there is evidence for it.

Your main objection seems to be that it makes you feel bad.

How do we know this change we are associating with "climate change" is not a periodic occurrence? Because it is silly?

How far does climate change research go back with hard evidence? 300 - 1000 years? Compared to Earth's lifetime of 10^9 years?

How is it scientifically responsible to make such conclusions about a planet when you only use a small section of its life? I think that deserves more scoffing than ridiculing people who don't want to subscribe their entire lifestyles on an entity that changes "their truth" every generation. But, *in my experience* I have seen that many on CF disagree with that in bold; the consensus is to follow the consensus. Blind leading blind. Either there are a lot of assumptions, or the data is categorically incorrect.

What may be seen is a secondary or tertiary event related to the main event, or a perturbation to a system perhaps sped up by human interaction. But, there isn't nearly enough evidence to convince someone that the current science is precise and accurate about the relationship between modern human influence and the changes in the planet.
 
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