Why should we act morally?

[AraqirG]

I was doing some light reading about the concept of morality, and I was curious, why should people act morally? I know that people have different conceptions of what is moral, but independantly, of the morality of specific actions, why should an individual act morally?

 

[Marz Blak]

My answer to your question depends on what you mean by 'should.'

If by 'should' you mean, 'sensible to do,' then I would say that we should all act ethically because it is in our collective and individual long-term best interest (from a necessarily subjective perspective) to do so.

If you mean 'should' in some objective, universal, prescriptive sense, then I don't think we 'should' (I don't believe objective ethics exist).

 

[repentandbelieve]

I was doing some light reading about the concept of morality, and I was curious, why should people act morally? I know that people have different conceptions of what is moral, but independantly, of the morality of specific actions, why should an individual act morally?

By choosing to act morally you are making a concious choice to do what is right over doing what is wrong.

Spiritually, you are choosing to walk in the light over walking in darkness.

 

[Marz Blak]

Basically because they are making a concious choice to do what is right over doing what is wrong.

In other words, we should do right because it's, well, right, and not do wrong because it's wrong?

Or do you mean we should want to do right? If so, why?

Sorry, I missed the 'spiritually' part. I guess you are saying that we should choose to do right because it's what God wants, or something like that?

 

[repentandbelieve]

In other words, we should do right because it's, well, right, and not do wrong because it's wrong?

Or do you mean we should want to do right? If so, why?

Sorry, I missed the 'spiritually' part. I guess you are saying that we should choose to do right because it's what God wants, or something like that?

Exactly, love for God will prompt an individual do what is right.

 

[AraqirG]

My answer to your question depends on what you mean by 'should.'

Sorry, should was a poor choice of words b/c it is morally loaded, implying a sense of duty to morality.
I mean for what reason do we act morally.

If by 'should' you mean, 'sensible to do,' then I would say that we should all act ethically because it is in our collective and individual long-term best interest (from a necessarily subjective perspective) to do so.

How is it in my best interest to act morally? If I am a kleptomaniac, isn't it in my best interest to steal if I can get away with it?

By choosing to act morally you are making a concious choice to do what is right over doing what is wrong.

exactly, thats my problem. The only reason I can think of is simply that I do what is moral b/c it is moral. Thats circular. I see no independant reason to obey some sort of moral law.
You said we should act morally b/c we make a chioce to do right over wrong, but for what reason should we do what is right?

Exactly, love for God will prompt an individual do what is right.

The problem is Christian ethics is also circular. Why should we obey God? so we don't sin. What is a sin? Disobeying God. So we obey God to not disobey God, correct?

 

[Nathan David]

Because if I didn't I would feel guilty and unable to live with myself. As a practical matter, I would like to live in a world where people act in a moral way, and doing so myself is one small step towards that ideal.

 

[charmtrap]

How is it in my best interest to act morally? If I am a kleptomaniac, isn't it in my best interest to steal if I can get away with it?

I think "morality" necessarily implies a social interest above a personal interest. Stealing may be good for you, but it's clearly not good for the stealee or society at large, since rampant stealing engenders mistrust and suspicion.

exactly, thats my problem. The only reason I can think of is simply that I do what is moral b/c it is moral. Thats circular. I see no independant reason to obey some sort of moral law.

Morals are inherently subjective. That doesn't mean there is no way to objectively decide if an action is harmful to others. Murder is clearly immoral, premarital sex is not.

 

[AraqirG]

Note: I am not an "immoral pig". I am just attempting to find a cohesive moral postition to decide how I act. Upon reading, I started asking this question.

Because if I didn't I would feel guilty and unable to live with myself. As a practical matter, I would like to live in a world where people act in a moral way, and doing so myself is one small step towards that ideal.

<Devils Advocate>
So we only act morally to the extent that we feel guilty? What about those individuals who don't feel that sense of guilt? Why do they act morally?

 

[AraqirG]

I think "morality" necessarily implies a social interest above a personal interest. Stealing may be good for you, but it's clearly not good for the stealee or society at large, since rampant stealing engenders mistrust and suspicion.

Then we can kill one person to save 5?
If we have one healthy man, and 5 others who need organ transplants (seperate organs), can we cut up the one guy to save 5 other people? Saving 5 is surely in the interest of the society. 5>1, so does that make killing the random person ok?

 

[Marz Blak]

How is it in my best interest to act morally? If I am a kleptomaniac, isn't it in my best interest to steal if I can get away with it?

As charmtrap wrote, "morality" implies a social interest above a personal interest. Sure we all have an interest in fulfilling our own immediate desires; but we also as a species seem to have, to varying degrees, a desire/interest in furthering the interests of groups with whom we've associated ourselves, whether it be the family, the tribe, the nation, etc. Most of us innately balance these interests--our immediate personal interests with those less immediate--though this is not always the case, i.e., socipaths; though how we weigh these various interests varies from person to person and from circumstance to circumstance.

As to why this should be the case, I believe it is explained quite satisfactorily within a sociobiological framework. When you get down to it, I think that all ethical impulses in humans can be tied back to the empathic sense, which I think is most likely an evolved one. I should add that the variability with which people seem to approach these issues is evidence for its evolution, in my view.

Then, too, to take you kleptomaniac example, perhaps the kleptomaniac refrains from stealing not out of any moral/empathic impulse, but simply out of fear of getting caught and punished. Though this rationale is quite arguably not one based in ethical considerations, it (group censure/punishment) is a powerful check on behaviors which are deleterious to the well-being of the group, and it can be explained in a sociobiological framework as well.

 

[AraqirG]

As charmtrap wrote, "morality" implies a social interest above a personal interest. Sure we all have an interest in fulfilling our own immediate desires; but we also as a species seem to have, to varying degrees, a desire/interest in furthering the interests of groups with whom we've associated ourselves, whether it be the family, the tribe, the nation, etc. Most of us innately balance these interests--our immediate personal interests with those less immediate--though this is not always the case, i.e., socipaths; though how we weigh these various interests varies from person to person and from circumstance to circumstance.

As to why this should be the case, I believe it is explained quite satisfactorily within a sociobiological framework. When you get down to it, I think that all ethical impulses in humans can be tied back to the empathic sense, which I think is most likely an evolved one. I should add that the variability with which people seem to approach these issues is evidence for its evolution, in my view.

Then, too, to take you kleptomaniac example, perhaps the kleptomaniac refrains from stealing not out of any moral/empathic impulse, but simply out of fear of getting caught and punished. Though this rationale is quite arguably not one based in ethical considerations, it (group censure/punishment) is a powerful check on behaviors which are deleterious to the well-being of the group, and it can be explained in a sociobiological framework as well.

Ok, so if people innately balance these desires shouldn't the goal of any ethical system be individual hapiness? Christian ethics cannot be correct then. I was hoping for some Christian opposition (b/c this is the Christian forums), but I guess there aren't very many in this board (philo and morality).
(Marz Blak: I don't know if you saw the last post on the first page...where is the brightline between balancing individual vs. societal interests?)

 

[Mekkala]

I was doing some light reading about the concept of morality, and I was curious, why should people act morally? I know that people have different conceptions of what is moral, but independantly, of the morality of specific actions, why should an individual act morally?

The answer to that question depends on the moral code of the person you're asking. If someone's moral code is, "Whatever God thinks I ought to do," then the answer is, "Because God thinks I ought to do it." In my case, I consider morality a set of guidelines defining which actions are harmful to society and which are not. That being the case, it's pretty obvious why I act morally, isn't it? If society is harmed, that's a bad thing for all of us, and so it's in our best interest to avoid actions that harm society.

 

[slayer-2004]

I believe that morality lies the the heart of all humans , and thats why we were able to come up with the moral standards we have today . We humans need a boost at an early age to discover what is moral but once we get older we start figuring things out by ourself , we dont have to continue being fed information on what is moral .

God gave humans a mind to figure out how we should treat each other on our own . A mind to think and reason - to act like a selfish immoral prick is the same as throwing away your god given reason , which is why most immoral people are often considered stupid .

 

[repentandbelieve]

You said we should act morally b/c we make a chioce to do right over wrong, but for what reason should we do what is right?


The problem is Christian ethics is also circular. Why should we obey God? so we don't sin. What is a sin? Disobeying God. So we obey God to not disobey God, correct?

Christian ethics are circular. They form a perfect circle that cannot be broken. Everything ties together, nothing can creep into it and nothing can be taken out of it.

But in response to your question, "for what reason should we do what is right" I say this. The love of God compels a christian to do what is right. It's the law of love. Love begets love. We love Him because he first loved us.

When you love someone, you naturally want to do what pleases them. It pleases God when we choose to do what is right.

 

[slayer-2004]

I ussually do what is right because I feel that is what is intended as right . If you act morally just to please the one who determines you eternal doom , do you really understand morality ? Or has the bible created the illusion of morality in your mind ?

 

[repentandbelieve]

The answer to that question depends on the moral code of the person you're asking. If someone's moral code is, "Whatever God thinks I ought to do," then the answer is, "Because God thinks I ought to do it." In my case, I consider morality a set of guidelines defining which actions are harmful to society and which are not. That being the case, it's pretty obvious why I act morally, isn't it? If society is harmed, that's a bad thing for all of us, and so it's in our best interest to avoid actions that harm society.

God doesn't think we ought to act morally, he commands it.
And surely God must have had the best interest of society in mind when He gave us His law and commanded us to obey it.

 

[repentandbelieve]

I ussually do what is right because I feel that is what is intended as right . If you act morally just to please the one who determines you eternal doom , do you really understand morality ? Or has the bible created the illusion of morality in your mind ?

Christians also obey because they realize that it is in their own personal best interest and also in the best interest of society as a whole.

 

[Mekkala]

God doesn't think we ought to act morally, he commands it.
And surely God must have had the best interest of society in mind when He gave us His law and commanded us to obey it.

"Surely"? Is it impossible that God might *not* have the best interests of society at heart? Do you know that there are places in the Bible that specifically and clearly state that God's desire is more important than man's interests?

 

[mpshiel]

Um, the only thing that defines "sin" is God. When God makes a list saying, "This is not who I am" or rather, "This is not to be present within me" that is sin. The "commands" as someone referred to them are what God said to a group of people who wanted a relationship with him. He said, "Great, I want to have a relationship with you but you should know, these things I can't have in my presence - so if you do them, I can't be with you."

Interestingly in the NT those "commands" were boiled down to "Love your neighbor as yourself, and Love God with your heart soul and mind." - Morality for Christians is the way of thinking and living which comes about by being in a relationship with God. I don't believe it is slavish obedience, or a set of rules, more a set of thinking and being.

NT morality, like praying for those who abuse you, and turning to offer the other cheek when someone hits you are not much on logic. It is a calling which says, if you risk and you dare and you love without any hope of return, totally exposing yourself to being misused, then I (God) will make things work out. Yet even these ideas, that by being better people and believing that others can be better people are taken on by Athiests and diests like Klaus and others. I personally don't have the type of courage they do, to act and believe that deep down humans are good - I require some sort of divine back up to make that sort of leap.