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Why should one care if ''God'' exists?

Eudaimonist

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Like spending eternity in hell? I guess if you don't mind that, then you'll be quite happy there.

Happy? No, of course not.

But I would have my integrity, which is beyond price. If it turns out that I live in a malevolent universe in which integrity is punished, then so be it. I was never guaranteed that life would be easy.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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Aldebaran

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Happy? No, of course not.

But I would have my integrity, which is beyond price. If it turns out that I live in a malevolent universe in which integrity is punished, then so be it. I was never guaranteed that life would be easy.


eudaimonia,

Mark

So you'll have your integrity (or pride) in Hell.
You know, I could have said the same thing back when I didn't believe there was much to base the existence of God on. But keeping an open mind to things that are beyond my comprehension is certainly worthwhile. Stubbornly refusing to accept something beyone my comprehension would be a sign of an unwillingness to learn or grow.
 
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Aldebaran

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Eudaimonist

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So you'll have your integrity (or pride) in Hell.

As opposed to being spineless gelatin in Heaven?

If integrity is related to pride, it is related to a good sort of pride.

You know, I could have said the same thing back when I didn't believe there was much to base the existence of God on. But keeping an open mind to things that are beyond my comprehension is certainly worthwhile. Stubbornly refusing to accept something beyone my comprehension would be a sign of an unwillingness to learn or grow.

I am perfectly willing to learn and grow, and I have made progress.

However, I don't find it helpful to view the tools of my growth as "beyond my comprehension". They could never help me to grow if they were that. Seeing any tool of growth as beyond one's comprehension is a sure way to keep it mysterious and to lead one down the path of falsehood.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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Aldebaran

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As opposed to being spineless gelatin in Heaven?

If integrity is related to pride, it is related to a good sort of pride.

I was implying that his "integrity" was actually nothing more than pride in disguise.
 
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Tree of Life

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I'm an atheist but also a former Christian. Instead of asking Christians to show evidence of god's existence (which there is no objective proof; the Bible isn't proof of anything) why not tell me and other atheists, why is believing relevant? Why should anyone care if a god exists?

If a god exists, why does he/it need my buy in?

Why is believing in a god ...necessary to living a good and productive life? (It's not in my opinion, but I'm interested in learning from Christians here, why they feel otherwise)

Thanks! :)

Relationship with God is relevant because it's necessary for happiness.
 
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bhsmte

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So you'll have your integrity (or pride) in Hell.
You know, I could have said the same thing back when I didn't believe there was much to base the existence of God on. But keeping an open mind to things that are beyond my comprehension is certainly worthwhile. Stubbornly refusing to accept something beyone my comprehension would be a sign of an unwillingness to learn or grow.

What hell? Do you have any evidence that hell exists?
 
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bhsmte

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Relationship with God is relevant because it's necessary for happiness.

Really?

So you can judge all those who don't believe in a God as to whether they live happy satisfying lives? That is truly amazing, you can make that judgment of others.

What about advanced countries that have much lower belief in God than the United States, and have a very high standard of living, low crime and high satisfaction with life?
 
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Aldebaran

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Really?

So you can judge all those who don't believe in a God as to whether they live happy satisfying lives? That is truly amazing, you can make that judgment of others.

What about advanced countries that have much lower belief in God than the United States, and have a very high standard of living, low crime and high satisfaction with life?

You can't be happy either!
 
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Deidre32

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We don't make it up.

no one knows what happens after we die. if a heaven or hell exists, you can't predict who will be there. if you are, yes, then you are making it up.

even when i was a christian, i believed that only 'god' would know such a thing.
 
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Eudaimonist

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I was implying that his "integrity" was actually nothing more than pride in disguise.

If you are viewing pride (and therefore integrity) as a vice, then I regard that as an evil view. It is the worship of spinelessness and mindlessness. It is a mockery of virtue.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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Noxot

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Like spending eternity in hell? I guess if you don't mind that, then you'll be quite happy there.

I would rather burn in hell than to submit myself to someone with such a view on others as you view God to be. FEAR is not good enough and it never has been good enough. FEAR is a product of sin and it blinds one from the true image of God. God has to do what he can with what people are and this is the only reason why FEAR is such a popular idea within the christian religion. in other words, people are spiritually blind and sinful and don't understand the nature of God but they think they do and thus they reinforce their FEAR ideology of God which in reality is a product of this fallen world rather than a product of God.

So you'll have your integrity (or pride) in Hell.
You know, I could have said the same thing back when I didn't believe there was much to base the existence of God on. But keeping an open mind to things that are beyond my comprehension is certainly worthwhile. Stubbornly refusing to accept something beyone my comprehension would be a sign of an unwillingness to learn or grow.

keep an open mind then and see how foolish it is to believe God will torture people forever if he claims to be love. refusing love is hell and many Christians refuse it more than those they believe are going to go there just because they ( non-believers ) do not affirm some kind of outward belief system. punishment for evil is met with good, not evil. Jesus said not to fight evil with evil but good with evil. how do you think he would be a hypocrite to then do the exact opposite of what he taught? often believers don't understand God because if they did their view of him would be very different.
 
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Tree of Life

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but having happiness is a matter of subjective truth. it is not objective

Happiness is subjective just like pain, hunger, anger, delight, pleasure, etc... All of these things are experienced by a subject. But there are objects outside of the subject that cause these experiences and states of being.
 
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Aldebaran

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I would rather burn in hell than to submit myself to someone with such a view on others as you view God to be. FEAR is not good enough and it never has been good enough. FEAR is a product of sin and it blinds one from the true image of God. God has to do what he can with what people are and this is the only reason why FEAR is such a popular idea within the christian religion. in other words, people are spiritually blind and sinful and don't understand the nature of God but they think they do and thus they reinforce their FEAR ideology of God which in reality is a product of this fallen world rather than a product of God.



keep an open mind then and see how foolish it is to believe God will torture people forever if he claims to be love. refusing love is hell and many Christians refuse it more than those they believe are going to go there just because they ( non-believers ) do not affirm some kind of outward belief system. punishment for evil is met with good, not evil. Jesus said not to fight evil with evil but good with evil. how do you think he would be a hypocrite to then do the exact opposite of what he taught? often believers don't understand God because if they did their view of him would be very different.

Much of what I was saying in what you quoted me was from trying to counter those who are focusing on the idea that God is evil and wants to torture people forever. I'm not of that view. I do believe however, that Hell is a real place that was created by God for the devil and his angels, not for man. But in Revelation, there are those who do go there because they made the conscious decision to reject Christ's mercy. Some of the atheists here are focused on that, to the exclusion of all else.
 
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bhsmte

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Happiness is subjective just like pain, hunger, anger, delight, pleasure, etc... All of these things are experienced by a subject. But there are objects outside of the subject that cause these experiences and states of being.

If happiness is subjective (and I agree) how can you then claim, it is necessary to have a relationship with God, for one to be happy??

Makes zero sense and is another way in which you contradict yourself.
 
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Skavau

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Much of what I was saying in what you quoted me was from trying to counter those who are focusing on the idea that God is evil and wants to torture people forever. I'm not of that view. I do believe however, that Hell is a real place that was created by God for the devil and his angels, not for man. But in Revelation, there are those who do go there because they made the conscious decision to reject Christ's mercy. Some of the atheists here are focused on that, to the exclusion of all else.
Yet you believe that everyone who has not, for whatever reason, sworn allegiance towards God has consciously "rejected Christ's mercy" so as to whether or not God actually wants people to go there is moot - he has ensured that most people will, and believes it to be just.
 
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