"Why should I let you into my heaven?"

[Bible Highlighter]

Once again, this is part of Christ's explanation of His parable of the wheat and the tares ...

Matthew 13

36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Also, the word translated “tares” in the King James Version is ζιζάνια (zizania), plural of ζιζάνιον (zizanion). This word is thought to mean darnel (Lolium temulentum), a ryegrass which looks much like wheat in its early stages of growth. So they appear to be indistinguishable at first. So that is why they are professed believers in Jesus. Like the believers in Matthew 7:21-23, they are told to depart from the Lord Jesus.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Read my post carefully, I am not claiming there is scripture that is saying that.

I am saying, what you believe in, you are implying that.

No, I am not. You are saying that. Not me. I never implied that Christ’s gift of righteousness is less powerful than Adam’s curse of sin. I already told you that Abraham’s descendants will be as the stars of the sky. Meaning, believers will dwarf the unbelievers of our time. So grace will abound so much more on account of that truth. Your pointing out the mechanics of how sin is passed down vs. how righteousness is imputed and or lost does not undo the truths of other verses I pointed out.

If you truly believe what you are claiming to believe, then have the confidence to say, "Yes, I believe Adam's disobedience in the garden was more powerful than Christ's obedience at the cross".

Not at all. Abraham’s descendants will be as the stars as the sky. So grace is so much more powerful on account of that. That is what Paul is saying. He was not referring to the imaginary point you are imposing upon the letter to the Roman Christian church.

I will respect your position more if you were to state it clearly, even though I might disagree with it.

Here is some content I have written on CF to learn more about what I believe.

The Four Aspects of Salvation.

The Two Sides of the Coin of Faith

The Bible’s Teaching That Sin is Separation From God

Not all sin is the same in Scripture

The Bible teaches that salvation comes with conditions.

What are the BIG things in the Bible we must accept as Christians? (Please no debating or criticism)

What theological things were you mistaken about in your growing knowledge of God's Word?

 

[Guojing]

No, I am not. You are saying that. Not me. I never implied that Christ’s gift of righteousness is less powerful than Adam’s curse of sin. I already told you that Abraham’s descendants will be as the stars of the sky. Meaning, believers will dwarf the unbelievers of our time. So grace will abound so much more on account of that truth. Your pointing out the mechanics of how sin is passed down vs. how righteousness is imputed and or lost does not undo the truths of other verses I pointed out.



Not at all. Abraham’s descendants will be as the stars as the sky. So grace is so much more powerful on account of that. That is what Paul is saying. He was not referring to the imaginary point you are imposing upon the letter to the Roman Christian church.



Here is some content I have written on CF over the many years to learn more about what I believe.

The Four Aspects of Salvation.

The Two Sides of the Coin of Faith

The Bible’s Teaching That Sin is Separation From God

Not all sin is the same in Scripture

The Bible teaches that salvation comes with conditions.

What are the BIG things in the Bible we must accept as Christians? (Please no debating or criticism)

What theological things were you mistaken about in your growing knowledge of God's Word?

Let's revise what you have stated.

Do you agree that you are stating the following premises?

1) Jesus's gift of righteousness can be forfeited by man in many ways (Source: "Why should I let you into my heaven?")

2) There is only one way to forfeit Adam's gift of death to man. (Source: "Why should I let you into my heaven?")

You are claiming the above 2 premises to be true, in your view. I have given you the sources of your claims.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Let's revise what you have stated.

Do you agree that you are stating the following premises?

1) Jesus's gift of righteousness can be forfeited by man in many ways (Source: "Why should I let you into my heaven?")

2) There is only one way to forfeit Adam's gift of death to man. (Source: "Why should I let you into my heaven?")

You are claiming the above 2 premises to be true, in your view. I have given you the sources of your claims.

Well, first, what Adam passed on was not a gift, but it was a curse.
Also, one can forfeit Adam’s curse by not just one way.

1. They can die as a baby.
2. They can die as a child before the age of accountability.
3. They can die being mentally handicapped in not knowing right from wrong.
4. They can accept Christ’s free love gift and die on their deathbed.
5. They can accept Christ’s free love gift and remain faithful with that gift.

Jesus’s gift of righteousness can be forfeited by one thing (Which is sin).

Sin can be translated into many different things (of course). But it is still all just one thing called sin.
Besides, your endlessly repeating your point (and not the Bible) does not change your ignoring of the other points I made with actual Scripture that demolished you repeated argument that is going nowhere. You cannot take a black magic marker and erase the other truths in Scripture. Your point is taken out of context from Romans 5. It’s not stating what you want it to mean. For if the Bible teaches that believers can fall away, die spiritually by committing grievous unrepentant sin, etc. than that is something you have to accept whether you like it or not. So your point is totally not relevant (if such is the case).

 

[Guojing]

Well, first, what Adam passed on was not a gift, but it was a curse.
Also, one can forfeit Adam’s curse by not just one way.

1. They can die as a baby.
2. They can die as a child before the age of accountability.
3. They can die being mentally handicapped in not knowing right from wrong.
4. They can accept Christ’s free love gift and die on their deathbed.
5. They can accept Christ’s free love gift and remain faithful with that gift.

Jesus’s gift of righteousness can be forfeited by one thing (Which is sin).

Sin can be translated into many different things (of course). But it is still all just one thing called sin.
It also does not change your ignoring of the other points I made that demolished you repeated argument that is going nowhere. You cannot take a black magic marker and erase the other truths in Scripture. Your point is taken out of context from Romans 5. It’s not stating what you want it to mean.

Alright, if that is the method you want to use to avoid reaching that conclusion, let us move on.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Alright, if that is the method you want to use to avoid reaching that conclusion, let us move on.

But you have not addressed any of the verses I put forth to you and within this thread that demolishes your belief, though. You would have to re-write tons of Scripture to make your belief work. That is what I don’t find acceptable. I also do not think the nothing you can do to lose your salvation is moral, either. Can you honestly say your belief fits basis morality if a believer can never lose salvation no matter what they did? What if they murder? Still saved?

 

[Guojing]

But you have not addressed any of the verses I put forth to you and within this thread that demolishes your belief, though. You would have to re-write tons of Scripture to make your belief work. That is what I don’t find acceptable. I also do not think the nothing you can do to lose your salvation is moral, either. Can you honestly say your belief fits basis morality if a believer can never lose salvation no matter what they did? What if they murder? Still saved?

Its a simple understanding of Romans 5:12-17.

The final Adam's gift must be more powerful than the first Adam.

One cannot lose the first Adam's gift, no matter what he does, short of accepting the final Adam's work on the cross.

Once you receive that gift of righteousness, you are stuck with it, no matter what you do after that.

Only then will Christ's obedience on the cross be more powerful than Adam's disobedience.

As for all the scripture you have used, you are not using the scripture that Christ gave the apostle Paul to teach us today. My advice to you, stick to Romans to Philemon for your salvation doctrine.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Its a simple understanding of Romans 5:12-17.

The final Adam's gift must be more powerful than the first Adam.

One cannot lose the first Adam's gift, no matter what he does, short of accepting the final Adam's work on the cross.

Once you receive that gift of righteousness, you are stuck with it, no matter what you do after that.

Only then will Christ's obedience on the cross be more powerful than Adam's disobedience.

As for all the scripture you have used, you are not using the scripture that Christ gave the apostle Paul to teach us today. My advice to you, stick to Romans to Philemon for your salvation doctrine.

I believe your point is not significant because of the verses I brought up.
My advice to you is to go back and address the verses I posted that demolish your belief.
Also, do you believe that a Christian murder and still be saved while doing so?
Yes, or no?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Its a simple understanding of Romans 5:12-17.

The final Adam's gift must be more powerful than the first Adam.

One cannot lose the first Adam's gift, no matter what he does, short of accepting the final Adam's work on the cross.

Once you receive that gift of righteousness, you are stuck with it, no matter what you do after that.

Only then will Christ's obedience on the cross be more powerful than Adam's disobedience.

As for all the scripture you have used, you are not using the scripture that Christ gave the apostle Paul to teach us today. My advice to you, stick to Romans to Philemon for your salvation doctrine.

Your argument is also loaded because if we draw near to God, He will draw near to us (James 4:8). If this is the case, then God can keep us from falling or stumbling (Jude 1:24). God is faithful to those who seek to be faithful to Him. For all things work together for good to those who love God (Romans 8:28). How do we love God according to Scripture? Jesus is God, and Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments. So if we love God we will obey Him and God will abide with us and work all things together for good in our lives. God will desire to protect us and to live a holy life because we truly desire that and yearn to be with God.

So your point does not apply to those who truly love God. There is a security for the believer, and it is only if that believer truly desires to love God with a pure heart, and not with a heart that seeks to justify sin and or evil.

 

[Guojing]

I believe your point is not significant because of the verses I brought up.
My advice to you is to go back and address the verses I posted that demolish your belief.
Also, do you believe that a Christian murder and still be saved while doing so?
Yes, or no?

If a Christian murder, yes, he is still saved.

In many countries, he will get into heaven even earlier, due to the death penalty.

 

[A_Thinker]

The tares are gathered out of Christ’s kingdom.
These would be believers who justified sin.

No ... per scripture ... the tares are the children of the wicked one that the enemy sowed among the wheat.

Your belief requires that the devil sowed authentic believers ... which then fell at some point.

That belief is refuted by Jesus, Who stated the principle of Satan not working against Satan. Also, Satan does not know the future ...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If a Christian murder, yes, he is still saved.

In many countries, he will get into heaven even earlier, due to the death penalty.

That’s pretty messed up. It is not only immoral or a violation of basic morality, but it is also a violation of God’s Holy Word.

“Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.” (1 John 3:15).

This verse is saying that if one hates their brother, they are like a murderer, and no murderer has eternal life abiding in them. This runs contrary to what you just stated.

Scripture says, God is good.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No ... per scripture ... the tares are the children of the wicked one that the enemy sowed among the wheat.

Your belief requires that the devil sowed authentic believers ... which then fell at some point.

That belief is refuted by Jesus, Who stated the principle of Satan not working against Satan. Also, Satan does not know the future ...

In regards to Matthew 13:41-42:

Yes, I know they are tares and they are of the wicked one. I am not denying those facts. They are only in Christ’s Kingdom only in the sense by their outward profession and actions. They are in the Kingdom by appearance only (looking like wheat when they are actually weeds in reality), and they are later cast out at the Judgment. At first glance: They seemed to trust Jesus, and do His work and they appear to be very similar to the other wheat (i.e. it seems like they are in the Kingdom), but they are cast out by being thrown into the furnace of fire by Christ’s angels because these kinds of believers justified sin or iniquity. In short, they preached another Jesus.

“And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.” (John 8:35).

Which servant does not abide in the house of God forever?

“Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.” (John 8:34).

Those who are born of God have the Son abiding in them.
Those who are born of God do righteousness (1 John 2:29).
We can tell the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil, he that does not righteousness and does not love his brother is not of God (See: 1 John 3:10).

The servant (the believer who justifies sin) does not abide in the house of God (in fellowship with other faithful believers) forever. They will be cast out by Christ’s angels into the furnace of fire. Jude 1 talks about these kinds of believers in how they slipped in among us.

 

[Guojing]

That’s pretty messed up. It is not only immoral or a violation of basic morality, but it is also a violation of God’s Holy Word.

“Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.” (1 John 3:15).

This verse is saying that if one hates their brother, they are like a murderer, and no murderer has eternal life abiding in them. This runs contrary to what you just stated.

Scripture says, God is good.

I hope you can see how easy it is to debate bible doctrine when people are confident enough to give a clear yes or no to your questions. =)

As I already stated to you, stick to Romans to Philemon for your salvation doctrine in the But now time period. That is what Paul meant when he instructed us to "rightly divide the word of truth" in 2 Tim 2:15. Not all truth is applicable to you.

Anyway, if you want to use this verse, why resort to murder?

Would you think its equally messed up to say "If you hate your fellow citizen, you will lose your salvation"?

 

[BibleBeliever1611]

"Because I trusted in your Son, the Lord Jesus Christ"

 

[prophecy_uk]

Your argument is also loaded because if we draw near to God, He will draw near to us (James 4:8). If this is the case, then God can keep us from falling or stumbling (Jude 1:24). God is faithful to those who seek to be faithful to Him. For all things work together for good to those who love God (Romans 8:28). How do we love God according to Scripture? Jesus is God, and Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments. So if we love God we will obey Him and God will abide with us and work all things together for good in our lives. God will desire to protect us and to live a holy life because we truly desire that and yearn to be with God.

So your point does not apply to those who truly love God. There is a security for the believer, and it is only if that believer truly desires to love God with a pure heart, and not with a heart that seeks to justify sin and or evil.

Faith is not security, faith is hope against hope, but safety ( security) is the mistake the world makes at the end of the world...


Romans 4:18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

Job 11:18 And thou shalt be secure, because there is hope; yea, thou shalt dig about thee, and thou shalt take thy rest in safety.

1 Thessalonians 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.





Proverbs 14:16 A wise man feareth, and departeth from evil: but the fool rageth, and is confident.

Proverbs 27:12 A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself; but the simple pass on, and are punished.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

With the responses given, and other things going on in my life, I am taking another break for a while.

May you all be blessed in the Lord.