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Why Should I Go To Church?

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That's not what baptism means, and I'm sorry that you've downgraded it to that level. :(

As far as I am aware the only Scriptural description as to what Baptism is is Peter saying that it's "the pledge of a good conscience towards God"(NIV). That seems close to what Lisa-lisa is saying. Perhaps you could share with us what you believe it to be. Warning!!!!-I doubt many here will be interested in a long drawn out contemplative meditation on the meaning of baptism. Personally, I feel that to whatever degree a person understands their spiritual walk at the present; that is where God has them. At least Lisa didn't say that she believed it to cleanse her from all the microscopic demons in her hair that constantly urged her to do bad things!!
 
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laconicstudent

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As far as I am aware the only Scriptural description as to what Baptism is is Peter saying that it's "the pledge of a good conscience towards God"(NIV). That seems close to what Lisa-lisa is saying. Perhaps you could share with us what you believe it to be. Warning!!!!-I doubt many here will be interested in a long drawn out contemplative meditation on the meaning of baptism. Personally, I feel that to whatever degree a person understands their spiritual walk at the present; that is where God has them. At least Lisa didn't say that she believed it to cleanse her from all the microscopic demons in her hair that constantly urged her to do bad things!!


As far as I am aware the only Scriptural description as to what Baptism is is Peter saying that it's "the pledge of a good conscience towards God"(NIV). That seems close to what Lisa-lisa is saying. Perhaps you could share with us what you believe it to be. Warning!!!!-I doubt many here will be interested in a long drawn out contemplative meditation on the meaning of baptism. Personally, I feel that to whatever degree a person understands their spiritual walk at the present; that is where God has them. At least Lisa didn't say that she believed it to cleanse her from all the microscopic demons in her hair that constantly urged her to do bad things!!

Romans 6.1-4

6 What shall we say then? aShall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who bdied to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that cas many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus dwere baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were eburied with Him through baptism into death, that fjust as Christ was raised from the dead by gthe glory of the Father, heven so we also should walk in newness of life.

Colossians 2.11-12

11 In Him you were also mcircumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by nputting off the body 8of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 oburied with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through pfaith in the working of God, qwho raised Him from the dead

1 John 5.6-8

6 This is He who came iby water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. jAnd it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear witness 2in heaven: the Father, kthe Word, and the Holy Spirit; land these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness on earth: mthe Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.

Galatians 3.26-27

26 For you iare all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For jas many of you as were baptized into Christ khave put on Christ.


1 Peter 3.18-20

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring 6us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, 7when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.
 
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I just read through what has been posted in here since my last post, and I've got to admit that rather than encouraging Lisa to go to church, this thread would probably be scaring her away! opinions and arguments - even human judgements of who belongs to Christ and who doesn't!

Has satan really got the church so divided that you can't agree for one minute to put you doctrines aside and answer the question?
=========================================

Look Lisa, there's no reason you have to go to church every Sunday or Saturday or whatever. Read the old testament and it's quite clear that God often spoke to people in the wilderness louder than those in the city's.

And I have also witnessed the manifestation Christs words when He said that "in the least of these you will find Me" in one of the gospels somewhere. I've had far more encouragement and support from atheists, pagans, buddhists and humanists than I have from from the average "saved" christian.

But I love Jesus, and He loves the church. So since love is a verb and Jesus doesn't need me to encourage Him, I encourage those around me when I can and try to do things for them.
 
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JamesAH

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Has satan really got the church so divided that you can't agree for one minute to put you doctrines aside and answer the question?

Yep seems the only thing we agree on is that God exists,Jesus was a man and the Miami Dolphins suck :thumbsup:
 
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Lisa*Lisa

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Now I can see why you asked this question. You were once of them and your mind is still affected. :sigh: You look at appearances. God looks at the heart.

Please do attend church if you're going to keep on believing that Jehovah's Witnesses are Christians. They are not of God.

Only Christians, Catholics, and Jews.

Some Christians are of God. Some Christians are of Satan.

Some Catholics are of God. Some Catholics are of Satan.

Some Jews are of God. Some Jews are of Satan.

All other religions are of the devil.



Thanks! :wave: I didn't see the post that you quoted.

Oh wow, you say that I look at appearances and god reads the heart? Haven't I been the ONLY ONE saying that through this entire thread?

Then you go on to say which people are of god and which ones aren't? So who is really looking at appearances? Not me, but YOU. I do not judge entire groups of people like you and many others here do. That is for God to do, not man. Nobody has the right to say things like that.

Your view of God is so small and narrow. Unfortunately, this is the type of christian attitude that I find so sad. We are not under any law today, Jesus came and washed that all away. The only requirements for being a christian are to accept Jesus as your personal savior, and to love your neighbor.

Notice it doesn't say to "love only your christian neighbor", it says love your neighbor. Does loving your neighbor include judging them? NO. Does loving your neighbor include degrading their style of worship? NO. Does loving your neighbor include telling another christian that their love for god isn't good enough? No.

People need to get a grip. This is the problem that people have with christians.

After I left the JW's, I had no faith at all, I didn't pray, didn't even think about god anymore for many many years. I started to think about it again, and I started to explore other religions, and I basically became a new ager for lack of a better word. They were more loving then the christians, not a little more, alot more! My love and appreciation for God began to grow again, this time on my own without a church telling me what to do and how to do it. For the first time in my life, I love God just because I do, and it's not tainted by any outside influences (churches). It's of my own doing, it comes from my heart, all by myself. It's a pure love as it's not driven by any other motivation then gratitude for being alive. I'm out in the "wilderness" so to speak, having and building my own relationship with the one who created me. I call myself a christian today because I am, and because I want too. Not because I"m supposed to. I talk to God several times a day, everyday, just because I want too, not because I have to. He is my friend, my only real true friend.

To me, this is a pure form of worship because it does not include outside influences, neither good or bad. My style of worship has no adgenda, I"m not showing up a man made church on sunday to impress anyone, I don't pray in public to impress anyone, everything that I do is done in secret between me and God as he teaches me and gives me wisdom and understanding.

So many christians, and other religions for that matter, get so caught up in the "do's and dont's" that they miss the big picture. They get so caught up in the "rights and wrongs" that they end up judging someone else's relationship with God, which is actually a terrible thing to do. They can't see the forrest through the trees and see that God isn't small and petty, He is great and loving. God is everywhere at all times, and He made this very clear.

I'll tell you something else. When I was a new ager, I would hear so much distain for christians, because of the type of attitude that I heard here in this thread. That's why people of other faiths can't deal with christianity. They say that christians are judgemental and petty. Well, I can't deny that, it's true. Don't believe me, just read through this thread again.

Jesus died for ALL PEOPLE. Not just the church. Jesus loves ALL PEOPLE, not just the people who call themselves christians. Jesus created ALL PEOPLE, not just you. Jesus loved people on the outside, people who were different, people who were judged unrighteous by the religious leaders of His day. Let's not forget that.

Jesus is a reader of hearts, not public displays. Jesus is a reader of minds, not religious titles and labels. To say that your brother or your sister in Christ is not a real christian because they don't belong to the same church as you is a hateful thing to say, and I don't believe for one minute that Jesus would appreciate that. That is evavating yourself and putting down another person based on petty differences.

How do you think God feels when He sees that going on? I believe it makes Him very sad. Just like when a muslim straps a bomb on his back and kills people in the name of God. This is no different in theory, you're just doing it without a bomb, but you're still causing damage and division amoung your own brothers and sisters yet.

Look at the bigger picture and just know that God is more concerned with a person's heart condition, how they live their daily lives, and how they treat other people. I believe that's the most important thing, and the bible seems to think so too.
 
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Melethiel

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Notice it doesn't say to "love only your christian neighbor", it says love your neighbor. Does loving your neighbor include judging them? NO. Does loving your neighbor include degrading their style of worship? NO. Does loving your neighbor include telling another christian that their love for god isn't good enough? No.
Actually, it does include judging them - if they are on the road to hell (of course, we can't read the heart - but we are going by what they publically profess), is it really loving to sit back and tell them they're doing just fine? Or to warn them and point them to the right Way?

Did Jesus never judge? Did Jesus never tell people that their style of worship wasn't good enough? Did Jesus never tell people that their "love for God" wasn't good enough?

I'll tell you something else. When I was a new ager, I would hear so much distain for christians, because of the type of attitude that I heard here in this thread. That's why people of other faiths can't deal with christianity. They say that christians are judgemental and petty. Well, I can't deny that, it's true. Don't believe me, just read through this thread again.
Yes. Christianity IS judgmental. We claim that there is only One Way to heaven - and that all other religions are flat out wrong. I, for one, am certainly not ashamed of not compromising on the Truth. The pagans in the Roman Empire thought the Christians were being judgmental as well, but denouncing their gods as false - and declared Christianity illegal and persecuted them. This didn't cause them to compromise on their beliefs then, so why should we compromise now?
 
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daydreamergurl15

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What's the point of it? My church is in my home, my backyard, my car, my mother's house, my daughter's house, my church is wherever I am because the kingdom of god is inside me and god is literally everywhere.

The gospel of Thomas recorded Jesus words as "Where there are two or one, I am with him." Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift up the stone, and you will find me there."

I've never found church to be a place of inspiration, rather the opposite. I"m inspired by the beauty of nature, not the opulence of a man made building.

I"ve always found church to be nothing more then a social function, a political arena, a fashion show, and a place of showy displays.

I see a multi million dollar building, and then a homeless man sleeping in a cardboard box across the street. I see people spending millions of dollars to support this building, while many of the people there are hungry and in need of help. I see preachers living in mansions and driving BMW's while I'm struggling to pay my mortgage every month. I see social clicks, snobby people, unwelcoming to strangers when I go to church. I see alot of talk and not alot of practical doing, it's like a big production without substance.

Recently, my mom found one tiny neighborhood church that is very downscale, humble, modest, so I might check it out, (even tho I vowed to never attend church again) but the big ones make me sick. But, I dont' really even see the point of going.

So..........what's the point? Please explain it to me since I seem to be the oddball around here.

It's a sad misfortune indeed that your decision to go to "church" is based on the downscale of a building. The church is the body of Christ. One person does not make a church, but when 2 or more are gathered in Christ, He is there. If you have done what scripture asked to become a Christian than you have Christ inside of you and you are being guided by the Holy Spirit, and your body is the temple of Christ, but we are not asked to worship God alone (don't be confused, yes we do have individual worship as well).

We take the Lord's Supper as a group, we give offering to God together, and we sing hymns together (yes, you can sing by yourself as well, but when we are worshiping God as the church then we do it together). We bear each others burdens together, we are asked to pray for each other and help each other, you cannot do those things if you don't have anyone you are worshiping with.

God have given us an amazing opportunity to worship Him. And He did it in such a way that we can worship Him together and be strengthened when we are weak, all through Christ. And when you are choosing a place to worship, it should be because the people there are doing their best to preach and teach others about Christ, following the format of how the church should run that is found in scripture, and have the heart of a servant that resembles Christ.

Why should we go to church? Because while we were still sinners Christ went to the cross of Calvary, took upon all our sins and died and was raised so that He will be our Savior, our hope, and our high priest. God is deserving of our praise and worship and we should be grateful that He has given us the opportunity to worship Him in both word and deed.
 
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Melethiel

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Yes, Jesus did. You are not Jesus.
But He did leave the Holy Spirit to guide his Bride, the Church...so yes, while my individual judging is probably me being spiteful, when the Church declares something, it's a good idea at least to listen and think about it. The Church declared long ago which teachings were Christian and which were heretical...and yes, I will judge every group I come across to make sure that I'm not getting mixed up in heresy.

Furthermore, you said these things aren't "loving." Are you saying that Jesus didn't follow his own commandments? God is love...you're saying that God wasn't loving to these people? Or was he in fact being loving by shaking them up and warning them?

And yes, if I see people running down the wrong road, I will warn them, not pretend to be "loving" and let them run straight into hell.
 
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daydreamergurl15

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Lisa*Lisa,
I have a question for you because I just noticed what you wrote in your very first post. You said that you saw a multi-million dollar building and a homeless man sleeping across and that seem to disguise you, my question to you is this:
What did you do to help the homeless when you saw that scene???

If you did nothing, then I have come to the conclusion that we can all criticize the church for not doing its part, but if we are Christians, then we also have a responsibility to help. We cannot critic the church for not doing enough to stop some of the problems in this world and yet we stand around and do nothing. It becomes an unfair assessment of judging the church....especially if we do nothing and we are part of that church.
 
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Lisa*Lisa

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Lisa*Lisa,
I have a question for you because I just noticed what you wrote in your very first post. You said that you saw a multi-million dollar building and a homeless man sleeping across and that seem to disguise you, my question to you is this:
What did you do to help the homeless when you saw that scene???

If you did nothing, then I have come to the conclusion that we can all criticize the church for not doing its part, but if we are Christians, then we also have a responsibility to help. We cannot critic the church for not doing enough to stop some of the problems in this world and yet we stand around and do nothing. It becomes an unfair assessment of judging the church....especially if we do nothing and we are part of that church.

When I see a homeless person, I drive to the nearest fast food place, buy a meal, and then take it to him. I've never had one refuse the meal that I offer, they are always grateful, and the funny thing is that usually they reply with "god bless you" instead of "thank you" which I usually find a bit strange, but very nice. I've often wondered if any of them were angels in disguise.

If there isn't a fast food place around, I give him enough cash to buy a meal, or whatever cash I have in my wallet at the time, which usually isn't much more then a few dollars. I usually use my credit card to buy the food.

I"m not tooting my own horn here, you asked the question and I'm answering it. I've often dreamed of opening a local soup kitchen, but I don't have the money to do it. I"m barely making it each month, and I might loose my home to foreclosure soon if I'm not able to sell it.
 
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daydreamergurl15

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As far as I am aware the only Scriptural description as to what Baptism is is Peter saying that it's "the pledge of a good conscience towards God"(NIV). That seems close to what Lisa-lisa is saying. Perhaps you could share with us what you believe it to be. Warning!!!!-I doubt many here will be interested in a long drawn out contemplative meditation on the meaning of baptism. Personally, I feel that to whatever degree a person understands their spiritual walk at the present; that is where God has them. At least Lisa didn't say that she believed it to cleanse her from all the microscopic demons in her hair that constantly urged her to do bad things!!

Acts 2:38 is another good scripture that tells us a little more about baptism:
And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.​
We see that when we are baptized our sins our forgiven and that we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

For those who don't believe that we receive the Holy Spirit through baptism and that it is part of us believing--and I know some believe that getting the Holy Spirit is a separate then baptism, here is another verse that helps with the understanding the role of baptism:

Acts 19:1-7
And it happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the inland country and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples. And he said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit." And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" They said, "Into John’s baptism." And Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus." On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking in tongues and prophesying. There were about twelve men in all.​

Also see Acts 8:26-40.
 
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daydreamergurl15

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When I see a homeless person, I drive to the nearest fast food place, buy a meal, and then take it to him. I've never had one refuse the meal that I offer, they are always grateful, and the funny thing is that usually they reply with "god bless you" instead of "thank you" which I usually find a bit strange, but very nice. I've often wondered if any of them were angels in disguise.

If there isn't a fast food place around, I give him enough cash to buy a meal, or whatever cash I have in my wallet at the time, which usually isn't much more then a few dollars. I usually use my credit card to buy the food.

I"m not tooting my own horn here, you asked the question and I'm answering it. I've often dreamed of opening a local soup kitchen, but I don't have the money to do it. I"m barely making it each month, and I might loose my home to foreclosure soon if I'm not able to sell it.
Thanks for the answer, but I wanted to know if you helped that specific homeless person that you saw across the big church building. I ask that because if the answer is you did not help him/her, then why were you so critical of the big church building? And how did you know that those who were in the big church building didn't help that specific homeless person?
 
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OrthodoxyUSA

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I was baptized when I became one of Jehovah's Witnesses. I don't think it matters exactly who baptizes you as it's a symbolic display of your faith. It's between you and God, not the person doing the dunking.

Can we go back to this one again. I don't mean to anger you... I'm just being honest about what the Apostolic Churches teach.

You do want me to be honest with you... correct?

It seems from your posts that you have had a lot of groups giving you a lot of different information. Would it not be nice to know the 'given' information to go along with all that so you can make informed decision?

There are a few facts that will help you get started.

The first Christian community was where? (Jerusalem 33AD) St. James led this Church for 30 plus years.

The second Christian community, which was the first daughter church of Jerusalem is The Church of Antioch, 34AD. She was led by Sts. Peter and Paul.

These communities still exist today.

They are the true sources of everything Christian that you desire to know.

The scriptures come to them written by their very own teachers who were members among them. These men taught these groups in person. These men laid hands on (ordained) those who they picked as being fully trained and could pass on the 'given' meanings in their absense.

This was PARAMOUNT! That the 'given' teachings of Christ were for all mankind throughout all ages until the end of time.

There is no other place where we can get the 'given' teachings of Christ through HIS Apostles.

If we think that we can guess the 'given' meanings of the teachings of Christ through HIS Apostles by reading the storys only... then we delude ourselves and others.

The Liturgy is what is needed to go with scripture, if we wish to observe the 'given' meaning.

With faith and love draw near.

Forgive me...
 
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Lisa*Lisa

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Thanks for the answer, but I wanted to know if you helped that specific homeless person that you saw across the big church building. I ask that because if the answer is you did not help him/her, then why were you so critical of the big church building? And how did you know that those who were in the big church building didn't help that specific homeless person?

My original post wasn't talking about me specifically seeing one specific building and one particular man across the street. It was a metaphor, sorry you didn't understand that. It's a collaboration of all of the things I've seen in my life, on the news, in person, in newspapers and magazines, and through the experiences of others that I know.

Once again, you're missing the big picture here.
 
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When I see a homeless person, I drive to the nearest fast food place, buy a meal, and then take it to him. I've never had one refuse the meal that I offer, they are always grateful, and the funny thing is that usually they reply with "god bless you" instead of "thank you" which I usually find a bit strange, but very nice. I've often wondered if any of them were angels in disguise.

If there isn't a fast food place around, I give him enough cash to buy a meal, or whatever cash I have in my wallet at the time, which usually isn't much more then a few dollars. I usually use my credit card to buy the food.

I"m not tooting my own horn here, you asked the question and I'm answering it. I've often dreamed of opening a local soup kitchen, but I don't have the money to do it. I"m barely making it each month, and I might loose my home to foreclosure soon if I'm not able to sell it.

What a beautiful heart!

I would encourage you to find a soup kitchen already in services (our local Church in Memphis does it all the time) and give time there when you can. Many hands make light work.

Your forclosure difficulties are something that proper clergy would be willing to help with. (It's why we tithe... it takes a community to do that.)

Forgive me...
 
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Lisa*Lisa

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What a beautiful heart!

I would encourage you to find a soup kitchen already in services (our local Church in Memphis does it all the time) and give time there when you can. Many hands make light work.

Your forclosure difficulties are something that proper clergy would be willing to help with. (It's why we tithe... it takes a community to do that.)

Forgive me...

Thanks, but I consider it a privilege to be able to help a person in need when God puts them in my path.
 
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OrthodoxyUSA

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Thanks, but I consider it a privilege to be able to help a person in need when God puts them in my path.

Do that as well. Take care of what you see. But let's not neglect the ones we don't see.

Forgive me...
 
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