Why should I believe in sola fide when...

[BlackSaab52]

Why should I believe in justification by faith alone when it has only been around for 500 years? If it was true, then wouldn't other Christians before have believed in it? Why would God let people be blind for 1500 years about how to be saved? Why should I believe it when the people who supposedly rediscovered the doctrine, like Luther and Calvin, weren't very good Christians? Am I wrong?

 

[BBAS 64]

Why should I believe in justification by faith alone when it has only been around for 500 years? If it was true, then wouldn't other Christians before have believed in it? Why would God let people be blind for 1500 years about how to be saved? Why should I believe it when the people who supposedly rediscovered the doctrine, like Luther and Calvin, weren't very good Christians? Am I wrong?

Good Day, BlackSaab

I am assuming that you see a problem here that may be caused from a lack of understanding of the historical doctrine of Sola Fide'. So what does it mean to you?

I will sumbit that the doctrine can be found though out the historical record of the ECF and the Biblical record. By what standard to you judge Calvin and Luther and many others as not being very "good" christians?


Thomas Aquinas:

Expositio in Ep. I ad Timotheum cap. 1, lect. 3 (Parma ed., 13.588): “Non est ergo in eis [moralibus et caeremonialibus legis] spes iustificationis, sed in sola fide, Rom. 3:28: Arbitramur justificari hominem per fidem, sine operibus legis” (Therefore the hope of justification is not found in them [the moral and ceremonial requirements of the law], but in faith alone, Rom 3:28: We consider a human being to be justified by faith, without the works of the law). Cf. In ep. ad Romanos 4.1 (Parma ed., 13.42a): “reputabitur fides eius, scilicet sola sine operibus exterioribus, ad iustitiam”; In ep. ad Galatas 2.4 (Parma ed., 13.397b): “solum ex fide Christi” [Opera 20.437, b41]).

John Chrysostom :

"They said that he who kept not the Law was cursed, but he proves that he who kept it was cursed, and he who kept it not, blessed. Again, they said that he who adhered to Faith alone was cursed, but he shows that he who adhered to Faith alone is blessed." (Commentary on Galatians, 3)

Faith alone adheres are seen as blessed within the context of the Bible according to the ECF Chrysostom.

Peace to u,



Bill

 

[InquisitorKind]

Why should I believe in justification by faith alone when it has only been around for 500 years?

Clement of Rome believed in justification by faith alone. In chapter thirty-two of the First Epistle of Clement to the Corinthians, Clement writes that we "are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever."

But even if Clement of Rome didn't hold to the doctrine, the Scriptures teach and affirm the concept in a number of places (Romans 4:5, Genesis 15:6, Acts 10:44-48, Mark 2:5, Galatians 2:16, Ephesians 2:9, 2 Timothy 1:9, Philippians 3:9, etc.). That should be reason enough for us to believe its validity and follow it.

If it was true, then wouldn't other Christians before have believed in it? Why would God let people be blind for 1500 years about how to be saved?

There are no promises in the Scriptures that God's people will always be faithful to the revelation he has set before them (although I don't think that "1500 years" went by with no one understanding or following Sola Fide). If passages like 2 Kings 22:8-13 (where the Scriptures are not only not followed, but are physically lost) are examples of how God fulfilled the promises of Genesis 13:15, it isn't a stretch to suggest that the church could fail to be faithful to essential doctrines. This isn't a novel concept either. Early church fathers in a variety of contexts commented on this. Two examples such suffice:

Ambrose (c. 339-97): Many times have the clergy erred; the bishop has wavered in his opinion; the rich men have adhered in their judgment to the earthly princes of the world; meanwhile the people alone preserved the faith entire (John Daillé, A Treatise on the Right Use of the Fathers [Philadelphia: Presbyterian Board of Publication, 1856], p. 197).

Jerome (347-420): The Church does not depend upon walls, but upon the truth of its doctrines. The Church is there, where the true faith is. But about fifteen or twenty years ago, heretics possessed all the walls of the Churches here. For, twenty years ago, heretics possessed all these Churches. But the true Church was there, where the true faith was (William Goode, The Divine Rule of Faith and Practice, 2nd ed., [London: John Henry Jackson, 1853], Vol. 2, p. 344).

Why should I believe it when the people who supposedly rediscovered the doctrine, like Luther and Calvin, weren't very good Christians? Am I wrong?

I don't think anyone is a "very good" Christian. We will always be sinners in this life, struggling against the flesh. We would have to discredit most people's arguments by this reasoning, even if they were true. Not only are the consequences of this line of reasoning not good, this kind of argumentation is by its nature fallacious--the character of a person doesn't determine the truthfulness of statements made by said person. For example, if Hitler said that the earth was round, would we object to his statement simply because of the horrible crimes against humanity he committed during his life? No, I should hope not. In the same way, Luther's and Calvin's beliefs should be evaluated on their own, irregardless of your perception of their character.

~Matt

 

[tigersnare]

Why should I believe in justification by faith alone when it has only been around for 500 years? If it was true, then wouldn't other Christians before have believed in it?

I'm assuming this is not your argument, but one that someone esle has thrown it at you. It is very weak IMO. God's people were always saved by faith alone beginning with Abraham, Paul spills ink on this in Romans. So to say it's been around for 500 years would be completely out of line with scripture. Christians have always believed it, beginning with the first Christians (Apostles), up until today. I belive the Church at large did indeed fall into err. Praise God for the Reformation!

Why should I believe it when the people who supposedly rediscovered the doctrine, like Luther and Calvin, weren't very good Christians? Am I wrong?

No one is a "good" christian when God's holiness and righteousness is the measuring stick, as it should be. But on the flip side, why should you beleive the Papacy? Have you any idea of the corruption that existed leading into the Reformation?

This is why neither side should ever rest their sole judgment on a man, or men. Scripture alone will guide us.

 

[kevken]

The answer to this question may also depend upon one's eschatology. The church may still be in its "infancy." Learning and growing, maybe we will walk one day. But food is food no matter how old you are; as we are reading God's word the Church "grows" and matures.

 

[rnmomof7]

Why should I believe in justification by faith alone when it has only been around for 500 years? If it was true, then wouldn't other Christians before have believed in it? Why would God let people be blind for 1500 years about how to be saved? Why should I believe it when the people who supposedly rediscovered the doctrine, like Luther and Calvin, weren't very good Christians? Am I wrong?

Jesus taught it.
Jhn 3:14
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

Jhn 3:15
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Jhn 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Jhn 3:17
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Jhn 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

How about Paul?
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Eph 2:9
Not of works, lest any man should boast.[/color]

How about Peter?

1Pe 1:8
Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see [him] not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:



1Pe 1:9
Receiving the end of your faith, [even] the salvation of [your] souls.


And John

]

1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, [even] our faith.
1Jo 5:5
Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?


We have a cloud of witnesses
Hbr 11:1**
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Hbr 11:2**
For by it the elders obtained a good report.

Hbr 11:3**
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Hbr 11:4**
By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

Hbr 11:5**
By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Hbr 11:6**
But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Hbr 11:7**
By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

Hbr 11:8**
By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

Hbr 11:9**
By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as [in] a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

Hbr 11:10**
For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker [is] God.

Hbr 11:11**
Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

Hbr 11:12**
Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, [so many] as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

Hbr 11:13**
These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of [them], and embraced [them], and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Hbr 11:14**
For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

Hbr 11:15**
And truly, if they had been mindful of that [country] from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

Hbr 11:16**
But now they desire a better [country], that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Hbr 11:17**
By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten [son],

Hbr 11:18**
Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

Hbr 11:19**
Accounting that God [was] able to raise [him] up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

Hbr 11:20**
By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.

Hbr 11:21**
By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, [leaning] upon the top of his staff.

Hbr 11:22**
By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.

Hbr 11:23**
By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw [he was] a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.

Hbr 11:24**
By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;

Hbr 11:25**
Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

Hbr 11:26**
Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

Hbr 11:27**
By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

Hbr 11:28**
Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.

Hbr 11:29**
By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry [land]: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.

Hbr 11:30**
By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.

Hbr 11:31**
By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

Hbr 11:32**
And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and [of] Barak, and [of] Samson, and [of] Jephthae; [of] David also, and Samuel, and [of] the prophets:

Hbr 11:33**
Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,

Hbr 11:34**
Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.

Hbr 11:35**
Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

Hbr 11:36**
And others had trial of [cruel] mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:

Hbr 11:37**
They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

Hbr 11:38**
(Of whom the world was not worthy they wandered in deserts, and [in] mountains, and [in] dens and caves of the earth.

Hbr 11:39**
And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

Hbr 11:40**
God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.


If it is by works, Christ died in vain !

Happy Resurrection Sunday !

HE IS RISEN!

 

[Gabriel]

Why should I believe in justification by faith alone when it has only been around for 500 years? If it was true, then wouldn't other Christians before have believed in it? Why would God let people be blind for 1500 years about how to be saved? Why should I believe it when the people who supposedly rediscovered the doctrine, like Luther and Calvin, weren't very good Christians? Am I wrong?

I appreciate you taking the time to ask questions here. Please keep in mind, however, that this is a Reformed only area. You cannot debate here. If you wish to spark a debate, you may bring this issue to General Theology.

 

[A. believer]

Why should I believe in justification by faith alone when it has only been around for 500 years? If it was true, then wouldn't other Christians before have believed in it? Why would God let people be blind for 1500 years about how to be saved? Why should I believe it when the people who supposedly rediscovered the doctrine, like Luther and Calvin, weren't very good Christians? Am I wrong?

Others have already addressed your question, but I'm wondering on what basis or on whose testimony do you conclude that Luther and Calvin "weren't very good Christians?" What standard of being a "good Christian" must one meet before we should be willing to consider his theological arguments and study them against Scripture?

 

[CalvinOwen]

Why should I believe in justification by faith alone when it has only been around for 500 years? If it was true, then wouldn't other Christians before have believed in it? Why would God let people be blind for 1500 years about how to be saved? Why should I believe it when the people who supposedly rediscovered the doctrine, like Luther and Calvin, weren't very good Christians? Am I wrong?

It is the "faith which was once for all handed down to the saints" (Jude 1:3). It is as old as Abraham:

ROM 4:2-3 "For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? 'Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."

Yes you are wrong!