Why should I beleive in God?

Crashfreak · Mar 10, 2005

hartmanpeter said:
I say supposedly because there's no proof that God exists. I'm just assuming that if he does exist, then he wrote the Bible (or influenced the people to write it).

You shouldn't really read it so that all of a sudden you want God proven, it will not prove anything to you. However the bible is the Authoratative word on Christianity, whether it is true or not, so you should ask yourself why are you here speaking with people who are only going to give you their own opinions on the word. Why not read the word itself and then you may be able to understand why we have the faith we do. Let God do his work in you, because no man can do it.

sinner/SAVED · Mar 11, 2005

hartmanpeter said:
Maybe I missed it, but I didn't find anything like that in Romans 1-5. It mostly talked about salvation belonging to Gentilles as well as Jews. Also, it talked about man not being saved by his works but by his faith.

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. Psalm 14:1

From what I understood in this chapter, the term "good" is meant to indicate "seeking God": The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. 3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

As for James, I'll have to ask you to be just a little more specific. As for Corinthians, I see nothing concerning being good.

I may be inclined to believe that No works we do prior to our justification through Christ are done as God has willed and commanded because it's like saying: Anything you do without your mother's permisson is done without your mother's permission.

From there, however, I can't say: Anything you do without your mother's permission is not ok.

Doesn't make sense. If a sinner saves a baby's life, can it not be good?

The point of Romans 1-5 is that we are completly bad. There is no good in us. Our only chance for even any resemblance of good is by the washing away of all the bad by Christ's gift to us.

A specific verse for what I was trying to say is Romans 14:24:
".....whatever does not proceed from faith is sin."

Whatever includes anything that we percieve as "good".

hartmanpeter · Mar 11, 2005

Crashfreak said:
You shouldn't really read it so that all of a sudden you want God proven, it will not prove anything to you. However the bible is the Authoratative word on Christianity, whether it is true or not, so you should ask yourself why are you here speaking with people who are only going to give you their own opinions on the word. Why not read the word itself and then you may be able to understand why we have the faith we do. Let God do his work in you, because no man can do it.

I won't claim that I've read every word of the Bible, but I have read a lot, including all the gospels and almost all of the New Testament (if not all... )
I still don't understand why you have the faith you do. I'm speaking with the people because, I'm trying to understand why you believe in God. I'm going straight to the horses mouth.

hartmanpeter · Mar 11, 2005

sinner/SAVED said:
The point of Romans 1-5 is that we are completly bad. There is no good in us. Our only chance for even any resemblance of good is by the washing away of all the bad by Christ's gift to us.

A specific verse for what I was trying to say is Romans 14:24:
".....whatever does not proceed from faith is sin."

Whatever includes anything that we percieve as "good".

We are completly bad...

I'm trying to understand that, but it seems absurd.
We may be covered in "filth", but I can't agree that all that we are is bad. Didn't God create us? Didn't he give us the ability to discern what is good and what is bad? What is evil and what is not? Those who dwell in the dark, know not the light. Those who dwell in the light, know not the darkness. We know both. We are creatures of duality. Can we be all bad? I strongly doubt it.

I think you're quoting that out of context. The entire verse is:

" But he who has doubts is condemned, if he eats, because he does not act from faith; for whatever does not proceed from faith is sin." Romans 14:23

The apostle Paul was talking about food. The debate between what foods we are allowed to eat and vice versa. Paul was saying that what you eat is between you and God:

"I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but it is unclean for any one who thinks it unclean. " Romans 14:14
"...Do not let what you eat cause the ruin of one for whom Christ died." Romans 14:15
"For the kingdom of God is not food and drink but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit;" Romans 14:17
"The faith that you have, keep between yourself and God..." Romans 14:22
"But he who has doubts is condemned, if he eats, because he does not act from faith; for whatever does not proceed from faith is sin." Romans 14:23

Paul was stating that you should have faith that what you eat is ok to eat and that it is between you and God and if you did not have faith that what you were eating is good to eat, then you are sinning.

BarbB · Mar 11, 2005

hartmanpeter said:
I apologize. My brother started this thread when he joined CF, not to long ago. He suggested I join and when I did, this was the first post he told me to read. I started posting in it, unaware that I wasn't suppose to. I have since attempted to stay out of this forum. I didn't, however, want my comments to be in vain. So I continued posting n this thread only. .....
If you'll allow me, I'd enjoy continuing posting in this thread. If not, I'll finish with replies to those who've commented on things I've stated and leave you all to your own devices.

No - that's totally cool with me. I liked your comments between the two sentences that I quoted above. I too like passionate debate as long as there is respect on both sides. You have been most respectful - that's why I accused you of mischief!

Ok - carry on!

lady_of_god · Mar 11, 2005

I only have two words for why you should believe in Jesus...

Eternal Life

-Lady

akasmom · Mar 12, 2005

Romans 2:1-11.
Stop with the proof thing, you aren't going to get it.
Why read the Bible? Faith comes by hearing, hearing by the Word of God. The word of God is alive and sharp as any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul & spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Read it with an open heart and God will use it to open your eyes. That's how He works; if you want to go to the horses mouth, go talk to HIM!! (not that you're unwelcome here... )

ForsakeAll2FollowJesus · Mar 12, 2005

lady_of_god said:
I only have two words for why you should believe in Jesus...

Eternal Life

-Lady

AMEN!

newbride02 · Mar 12, 2005

spyr, where are you?? I'd like to know how your search is going. Did you read the book I suggested??

akasmom · Mar 12, 2005

I don't believe hartmanpeter is Spyr's twin brother, I believe that they are one person using two identities to talk to these people. What proof can you offer that you are actually two different people?

Spyr · Mar 17, 2005

akasmom said:
I don't believe hartmanpeter is Spyr's twin brother, I believe that they are one person using two identities to talk to these people. What proof can you offer that you are actually two different people?

We are certainly two different people. I can send you our pictures if you like or you can give me your number and we'll call you! Better yet, maybe I should take a page from god's book and ask you to just believe. Open your heart and accept that we are hartmanpeter and Spyr. If you have faith you shall know it to be true.

Spyr · Mar 17, 2005

newbride02 said:
spyr, where are you?? I'd like to know how your search is going. Did you read the book I suggested??

Oh I'm still here, I'm a tad busy with work and other threads so forgive me for my absence. I have not been able, as of yet, to get that book you spoke off since it was not at my local bookstore but I'll keep and eye out for it.

newbride02 · Mar 18, 2005

Spyr said:
Oh I'm still here, I'm a tad busy with work and other threads so forgive me for my absence. I have not been able, as of yet, to get that book you spoke off since it was not at my local bookstore but I'll keep and eye out for it.

Glad to hear! I've seen some of your other posts. The copy of the book I have I purchased for $10 (i think) at walmart.

Spyr · Mar 18, 2005

newbride02 said:
Glad to hear! I've seen some of your other posts. The copy of the book I have I purchased for $10 (i think) at walmart.

The only Wal-Mart close to here is too far for me to go to, I'll check at Chapters. However I'm reading a lovely book by J.R.R. Tolkien called Tales from the Perilous Realm. Real cute.

hartmanpeter · Mar 18, 2005

lady_of_god said:
I only have two words for why you should believe in Jesus...

Eternal Life

-Lady

We will have eternal life in any case. Heaven or Hell. Jesus or Lucifer.

hartmanpeter · Mar 18, 2005

akasmom said:
Romans 2:1-11.
Stop with the proof thing, you aren't going to get it.
Why read the Bible? Faith comes by hearing, hearing by the Word of God. The word of God is alive and sharp as any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul & spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Read it with an open heart and God will use it to open your eyes. That's how He works; if you want to go to the horses mouth, go talk to HIM!! (not that you're unwelcome here... )

The word of God was cleverly crafted to strike fear in the hearts of those willing to listen. It is a tool used by elites to control the masses. It caters to the fear of the great unknown. It's ingenious, and it captivates the mind and heart. However, Peter-Pan has done the same for me. As did Lord of the Rings, most recently. (My opinion, not fact, or course.)

Spyr · Mar 19, 2005

here was Eru, The One, who in Arda is called Ilúvatar; and he first made the Ainur, The Holy Ones, that were the off-spring of his thought, and they were with him before aught else was made. And he spoke to them, propounding to them themes of music; and they sang before him and he was glad.

nd it came to pass that Ilúvatar called together all the Ainur and declared to them a mighty theme, unfolding to them things greater and more wonderful than he had yet revealed; and the glory of its beginning and the splendour of its end amazed the Ainur, so that they bowed before Ilúvatar and were silent.

hen Ilúvatar said to them:`Of the theme that I have declared to you, I will now that ye make in harmony together a great music. And since I have kindled you with the Flame Imperishable, you shall show forth your powers in adorning this theme, each with his own thoughts and devices, if he will. But I will sit and hearken, and be glad that through you great beauty has been wakened into song`.

hen the voices of the Ainur, like unto harps and lutes, and pipes and trumpets, and viols and organs, and like unto countless choirs singing with words, began to fashion the theme of Ilúvatar to a great music; and a sound arose of endless interchanging melodies woven in harmony that passed beyond hearing into the depths and into the heights, and the places of the dwelling of Ilúvatar were filled to overflowing, and the music and the echo of the music went out into the void, and it was not void. Never since have the Ainur made any music like to this music, though it has been said that a greater still shall be made before Ilúvatar by the choirs of the Ainur and the Children of Ilúvatar after the end of days. Then the themes of Ilúvatar shall be played aright, and take the Being in the moment of their utterance, for all shall then understand fully his intent in their part, and each shall know the comprehension of each, and Ilúvatar shall give to their thoughts the secret fire, being well pleased.

Silmarillion (J.R.R. Tolkien)

reverend B · Mar 19, 2005

hartmanpeter said:
The word of God was cleverly crafted to strike fear in the hearts of those willing to listen. It is a tool used by elites to control the masses. It caters to the fear of the great unknown. It's ingenious, and it captivates the mind and heart. However, Peter-Pan has done the same for me. As did Lord of the Rings, most recently. (My opinion, not fact, or course.)

it is hard to imagine that this conspiracy exists as it would have had to have reached over centuries. unlikely. has the scripture been used for ill? of course. what hasn't. does it make scripture itself evil or duplicitous? no. it is just one more example of how man can take anything and twist it to shreds. one thing you point out is very telling, however. u talk about elites using the bible to control people. absolutely true. unfortunately, we see this phenomenon in the pulpit far too often.
keep in mind that secularism is also the result of the fear of the unknown. rationalists have decided that all phenomenon can be explained with the accumulation of enough data. the idea of mystery challenges them to eliminate it, not embrace it. mystery is the enemy, knowledge the prize. the unknown threatens the rationalist and awes the faithful.

sinner/SAVED · Mar 21, 2005

hartmanpeter said:
The word of God was cleverly crafted to strike fear in the hearts of those willing to listen. It is a tool used by elites to control the masses. It caters to the fear of the great unknown. It's ingenious, and it captivates the mind and heart. However, Peter-Pan has done the same for me. As did Lord of the Rings, most recently. (My opinion, not fact, or course.)

Replace the words "The word of God" with "the Republican and/or Democratic party platform" and I'll agree with this statement.

Here is my version of the above statement:

The Word was cleverly crafted, just not in the way described by hartmanpeter.The Word was crafted by the Creator of all. It was crafted to inspire all to love and obedience. It is a tool used by people of faith to increase their faith and move them forward to perfection. It caters to great hope for the future. It is beyond any human measurement of genious. It captivates the soul. Peter Pan and TLOTR are pretty cool and do captivate me (I read TLOTR about once every two years) but they are only very well written fiction, and have no hold on my soul and no clue to eternity. (Some opinion, some fact)

edwardsfreak1 · Mar 21, 2005

Read romans 3:23,John 3:16,and 1 John 1:9.

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