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Why should homosexuality be a sin?

gwdboi

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This is a question that I've been wanting the religious right to answer for a while:

Why should homosexuality be a sin?

NOTE: This is not a debate on whether homosexuality is or is not a sin, this is a discussion on why it ought or ought not be a sin. All comments are welcome.
 

gwdboi

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Why shouldnt it?

Who gets to decide?

G

That's not the question but at any rate...

I cannot logically conceive any reason for homosexuality to be a sin. I can see why it might have been considered a bad thing in light of an evolutionary ideology but that's about it.
 
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Gusoceros

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That's not the question but at any rate...

I cannot logically conceive any reason for homosexuality to be a sin. I can see why it might have been considered a bad thing in light of an evolutionary ideology but that's about it.

Who decides?
 
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G

GratiaCorpusChristi

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I don't entirely understand your is-ought distiction. Are you asking whether, if we think it is a sin, then why?

Well for one, because Scripture is quite clear about the immorality of homosexual acts, Old and New Testament, and Scripture's word alone should provide the 'why.' Is homosexuality a sin? Yes, Scripture says so. Why? Because Scripture says so. (Many would make an argument that Jesus and Paul had in mind homosexual acts and not homosexuality, since homosexual identity is a purely modern construction; it would agree that homosexuality as an identity is a purely modern construction (I'm a Foucault fan), but I actually thinks it makes the situation worse since it means people are constructing their identity around sin)

Granted, this may seem elementary. But as Christians it should be good enough for us. Then again, it's never good enough for me, so I'll venture a real explanation...

Humans are created in the Image of God. We often use this truth to offer normative declarations on human rights issues and argue for the fundamental dignity of human persons. Yet we often fail to consider what the Image actually is, apart from some abstractions (personal sovereignty, creativity, etc.).

I submit that when questioning the nature of the Image of God, we must take into account the highest truth revealed to us about God- that God, in his very nature, is Triune. God is a self-sustained community.

The Divine Son is the image of the invisible God, we know from Colossians and Hebrews. The Father, being self-aware, has an eternal self-perception of himself that, himself being perfect, is perfect. And since existence is a quality of perfection, this self-image exists- the Divine Son, who exists from all eternity. Then, the Father and the Son also love each other, and this love is also perfect- existing, therefore, as the Holy Spirit. This is the traditional Western understanding of the operation of the Trinity (I have my own additional theories garnered from modern philosophy's insights, but they don't really change the point and are quite technical).

The point being, God is a self-sustained community involving the mutual sharing of one essence between three persons. This sharing of essence, is which each person participates fully, involves an eternal self-oblation (pouring) and sacrificial self-giving of being to each of the other divine persons in love. This is the beautiful heart of our God.

Now the oneness of essence is expressed in the great creed of the Jewish people found in Deut. 6:4: Shema Yisrael Adonai Eloheynu Adonai echad, or, Hear oh Israel, the Lord our God is one. The word here for one/oneness, echad, is actually the same word used in Genesis 2:24 when refering to the result of sexual relations between male and female- the coming together of two as one flesh. And this sharing of being (ontological unity) results in children, just as the love between the Father and the Son results in the Holy Spirit.

The point is this- the Image of God is not simply found in our persons as individuals (personal sovereignty and dignity, creativity, etc., though certainly that), but as a self-giving community found in the traditional family structure.

Note that I am not saying that homosexuals cannot participate in truly loving acts or engage in sustained monogomous relations. I am simply saying that the traditional family structure, based on the monogomous and heterosexual covenant of marriage found in God's original creative act (note: I am not a creationist), is itself the truest expression of the Image of God- and to warp the Image is the essence of sin.

That said, I'm profoundly libertarian on the issue of homosexual couplings in civil society. I don't see where in the US Constitution the federal government has the authority to define marriage, let alone grant tax breaks to married households, nor even why individual state authorities should be allowed to define marriage. I understand why states should be allowed to give longterm tax incentives to domestic partnerships- be they heterosexual married couples, homosexual partners in a self-proclaimed "marriage" relationship, a son and a single mother, or college apartment roomies- since longterm domestic partnerships provide for social stability. But why is someone's sex life the government's business at all?

Homosexuality is a grave sin, but not a crime. The only crime would be for government to definite marriage for the culture, one way or other.
 
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gwdboi

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I don't entirely understand your is-ought distiction. Are you asking whether, if we think it is a sin, then why?

Well for one, because Scripture is quite clear about the immorality of homosexual acts, Old and New Testament, and Scripture's word alone should provide the 'why.' Is homosexuality a sin? Yes, Scripture says so. Why? Because Scripture says so. (Many would make an argument that Jesus and Paul had in mind homosexual acts and not homosexuality, since homosexual identity is a purely modern construction; it would agree that homosexuality as an identity is a purely modern construction (I'm a Foucault fan), but I actually thinks it makes the situation worse since it means people are constructing their identity around sin)

Granted, this may seem elementary. But as Christians it should be good enough for us. Then again, it's never good enough for me, so I'll venture a real explanation...

Humans are created in the Image of God. We often use this truth to offer normative declarations on human rights issues and argue for the fundamental dignity of human persons. Yet we often fail to consider what the Image actually is, apart from some abstractions (personal sovereignty, creativity, etc.).

I submit that when questioning the nature of the Image of God, we must take into account the highest truth revealed to us about God- that God, in his very nature, is Triune. God is a self-sustained community.

The Divine Son is the image of the invisible God, we know from Colossians and Hebrews. The Father, being self-aware, has an eternal self-perception of himself that, himself being perfect, is perfect. And since existence is a quality of perfection, this self-image exists- the Divine Son, who exists from all eternity. Then, the Father and the Son also love each other, and this love is also perfect- existing, therefore, as the Holy Spirit. This is the traditional Western understanding of the operation of the Trinity (I have my own additional theories garnered from modern philosophy's insights, but they don't really change the point and are quite technical).

The point being, God is a self-sustained community involving the mutual sharing of one essence between three persons. This sharing of essence, is which each person participates fully, involves an eternal self-oblation (pouring) and sacrificial self-giving of being to each of the other divine persons in love. This is the beautiful heart of our God.

Now the oneness of essence is expressed in the great creed of the Jewish people found in Deut. 6:4: Shema Yisrael Adonai Eloheynu Adonai echad, or, Hear oh Israel, the Lord our God is one. The word here for one/oneness, echad, is actually the same word used in Genesis 2:24 when refering to the result of sexual relations between male and female- the coming together of two as one flesh. And this sharing of being (ontological unity) results in children, just as the love between the Father and the Son results in the Holy Spirit.

The point is this- the Image of God is not simply found in our persons as individuals (personal sovereignty and dignity, creativity, etc., though certainly that), but as a self-giving community found in the traditional family structure.

Note that I am not saying that homosexuals cannot participate in truly loving acts or engage in sustained monogomous relations. I am simply saying that the traditional family structure, based on the monogomous and heterosexual covenant of marriage found in God's original creative act (note: I am not a creationist), is itself the truest expression of the Image of God- and to warp the Image is the essence of sin.

That said, I'm profoundly libertarian on the issue of homosexual couplings in civil society. I don't see where in the US Constitution the federal government has the authority to define marriage, let alone grant tax breaks to married households, nor even why individual state authorities should be allowed to define marriage. I understand why states should be allowed to give longterm tax incentives to domestic partnerships- be they heterosexual married couples, homosexual partners in a self-proclaimed "marriage" relationship, a son and a single mother, or college apartment roomies- since longterm domestic partnerships provide for social stability. But why is someone's sex life the government's business at all?

Homosexuality is a grave sin, but not a crime. The only crime would be for government to definite marriage for the culture, one way or other.

No, sorry to be unclear. I'm asking why one thinks it should or shouldn't be a sin.
 
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gwdboi

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This probably ain't what you are wanting either, but it's a sin because God said we aren't supposed to do it. It's a sin for all the reasons that other sins are sins. Are you wanting to know if we were God why we would make it a sin?

Oh, believe me, there's a point.
 
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manchambo

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In this discussion then- you dont care what God says about the topic? You would then lean unto your own understanding?

G
I think he is saying, taking as a given that God has said it is a sin, why has he done that?

I take it you are not interested either in considering or discussing that question, so why do you keep posting on it?
 
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davedjy

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It's a negation of the model of creation laid out in Gen. 1, 2, and 3. The same reasoning lies behind the immorality of adultery and idolatry, as well.
It doesn't NEGATE the model...a man that stays celibate negates the model, too, let's not even go there.
 
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davedjy

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Untrue. A man who remains celibate does not affirm or negate the model laid out in Gen 1, 2, and 3.
Where does it say that homosexuality itself in Genesis 1,2, and 3 negates this model laid out? prove that.

Since you take everything literally w/o historical context, you would still be negating the commandment to "be fruitful and multiply"
by staying celibate, too.
 
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intricatic

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Where does it say that homosexuality itself in Genesis 1,2, and 3 negates this model laid out? prove that.

Since you take everything literally w/o historical context, you would still be negating the commandment to "be fruitful and multiply"
by staying celibate, too.
Actually, I pay a huge deal of attention to historic context. Nothing I can speak about in the Bible isn't at least moderately researched.

18 And the LORD God said, “It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.” 19 Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him.
21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. 22 Then the rib which the LORD God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man.
23 And Adam said:
“This is now bone of my bones
And flesh of my flesh;
She shall be called Woman,
Because she was taken out of Man.” 24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
(Genesis 2)
God's paradigm for romantic relationships is above. The two genders were created to compliment one another in this same manner in order to establish the pattern of a biblical marital covenant. This is the foundation of both the Judaic and the Christian marital covenant. It's this way because God created woman from man, still in His image, but in such a way that man is complimented by woman (and vice versa) - and in a symbolic sense, united with his other half (and vice versa) - through the marital union. As I said, celibacy neither affirms nor denies this model. Celibacy implies the completion is granted by Christ in a universal sense.
 
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davedjy

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Actually, I pay a huge deal of attention to historic context. Nothing I can speak about in the Bible isn't at least moderately researched.

God's paradigm for romantic relationships is above. The two genders were created to compliment one another in this same manner in order to establish the pattern of a biblical marital covenant. This is the foundation of both the Judaic and the Christian marital covenant. It's this way because God created woman from man, still in His image, but in such a way that man is complimented by woman (and vice versa) - and in a symbolic sense, united with his other half (and vice versa) - through the marital union. As I said, celibacy neither affirms nor denies this model. Celibacy implies the completion is granted by Christ in a universal sense.
I don't argue design.

1) Show God's design for retarded people

2) Show God's design for deaf people

3) Show God's design for conjoint twins

4) Show God's design for hermaphrodites


LOL
 
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