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[for me anyway] because self-murder is a sin in which the person cannot repent of: by the way before the comfortable, clinical word suicide was invented to ease people's minds, it was called self-murder, which by the way is exactly what it is in truth.If a christian kills himself, he still goes to heaven, right? If God truly forgave him and accepted him in his kingdom, he won't change his mind later. Even if a sin like self-murder is commited.
So, other than perhaps not being a usable tool in God's earthly projects (such as bringing others to christ), and perhaps bearing a bad testimony to those left behind, why shouldn't a child of God prematurely die (that is, not by a "natural" cause, but by a willful choice)? I understand the motives may be selfish, but still.
If we will die anyways, and if we'll go to heaven anyways, then what's wrong with hastening it? Selfishly speaking, it only seems advantageous. Are there only altruistic reasons for not doing it?
Thoughts?
Sorry, but I think that's rather a glib response and shows little understanding of the nature of depression.
Sometimes a person may use the word "depressed" when what they in fact mean is that they feel low, unhappy or upset. These feelings may be very real, and unpleasant, but will probably be temporary. They may disappear after a good night's sleep, a chat, or time of prayer with a friend, or practicing a hobby or pleasant activity.
Clinical depression is a chemical imbalance in the brain. It requires medical treatment and intervention. It is just as much an illness as migraine, chicken pox or cancer. Would you tell a Christian with cancer that if they weren't cured, they had never really been one of God's sheep and he wasn't helping them? Was John Wimber not really a Christian because he had a brain haemorrhage?
I'm guessing that you wouldn't say this to, or about, such people - so why say it about someone with depression?
I know all about clinical depression. I believe in medication for depression.
I also know that it isn't God's will that his sheep commit suicide and He takes care of us.
A person can die of cancer without killing himself.
I have relatives with depression.
Yes, but a self murderer who may believe that the world is better off without them, that their pain is too great to bear or cannot believe that God really loves them and things will ever get better. If someone has endogenous depression - an illness caused by a chemical imbalance - they may genuinely believe that removing themselves from the world would be doing someone else a service.
Then again, someone might only mean to cry out for help, but accidentally overdose. I've known someone who did that; they didn't intend dying, they just got comfort/security/attention from being in hospital.
Being mentally ill doesn't stop someone from accepting Jesus as their Saviour. It was prophesied that Jesus would not break a bruised reed; surely he would show compassion for the mentally ill?
If a christian kills himself, he still goes to heaven, right? If God truly forgave him and accepted him in his kingdom, he won't change his mind later. Even if a sin like self-murder is commited.
So, other than perhaps not being a usable tool in God's earthly projects (such as bringing others to christ), and perhaps bearing a bad testimony to those left behind, why shouldn't a child of God prematurely die (that is, not by a "natural" cause, but by a willful choice)? I understand the motives may be selfish, but still.
If we will die anyways, and if we'll go to heaven anyways, then what's wrong with hastening it? Selfishly speaking, it only seems advantageous. Are there only altruistic reasons for not doing it?
Thoughts?
You are not your own, to kill! To Kill you break the one of the Ten Commandments of "Thou Shall Not Kill". If one does kill themselves they hasten their way not into heaven, but to hell.
To be selfish in this way is not having God in them, but satan.
Ok. But what about those who don't like their life? What about someone who suffers physically? Or someone who's just sick of life (maybe they got hurt, or whatever reason they may hold for it)?
Does God really need us to share the gospel anyways? I understand that's the mean he wants to use though. But he doesn't need us.
I suppose one more reason could be offered. Maybe we won't be able to grow spiritually and get closer to him, but I also suppose we'll have plenty of that in heaven.
You are not your own, to kill! To Kill you break the one of the Ten Commandments of "Thou Shall Not Kill". If one does kill themselves they hasten their way not into heaven, but to hell.
To be selfish in this way is not having God in them, but satan.
Well, it could be that your own words are the ones God might use in making his decision. “Sin” of “self-murder”. Christians are called to stop sinning, and that would include murder. Jesus paid the price for us to be forgiven our sin by suffering a brutal death on the cross – which is good to forgive even the sin of murder. Actual Christians grasp that God’s love for us is deep, so deep that he would give his life for ours, so that we can have life. Without his sacrifice for us on the cross, we could not have life. So, your sin of self-murder, while knowing God’s kindnesses toward you, does not bode well for your future.
Also, God might use your words, “selfishly speaking” as well. He might question you, “After my son was brutally beaten for you so I could save you, why did you so selfishly throw away the life I have given you?” I presume your answer would be what you said in your post. “It seemed advantageous.” Advantageous to you, maybe, but certainly not to God. And he is the one who matters most.
Have you heard about the man to whom God gave a talent and wanted him to go out and use it for God’s purposes? The man feared God’s judgment and hid the talent, not using it. This very much is akin to throwing away a life to suicide. When the man’s day of judgment came, with his awareness that he had refused to use the talent God gave him, he came up short and God cast him into outer darkness. Matt. 25:30.
I’ve spent many nights for many years imagining me blowing my brains out in various fits of depression. What kept me from it was the fear of God. Such a sin I knew might keep me out of the kingdom of God. I knew his anger would be aroused by taking such a foolish act of destroying the life God gave me. One of the Proverbs says that the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. My initial fear of God saved me from such a rash decision. By not caving in to my own self-pity, God over time has healed my mind and heart, and I give him the praise and glory for making the best years of my life be the here and now.
The reason for not committing suicide is that God commands it. Deut. 30:16 “Choose life, so that you may live.” Jesus said “If you love me, keep my commandments.” Obedience to God is what Christians are called to do. Blatantly defying him by committing suicide in my opinion, and based on God's word, would not be wise. Jesus also said, “He who would give up his life for my sake shall find it.” In this case, giving up the idea of suicide and trading it in for the question of How can I serve God today? is the more sensible thing to do. It also helps you to learn how to love your neighbor, which we are commanded to do.
If a christian kills himself, he still goes to heaven, right? If God truly forgave him and accepted him in his kingdom, he won't change his mind later. Even if a sin like self-murder is commited.
So, other than perhaps not being a usable tool in God's earthly projects (such as bringing others to christ), and perhaps bearing a bad testimony to those left behind, why shouldn't a child of God prematurely die (that is, not by a "natural" cause, but by a willful choice)? I understand the motives may be selfish, but still.
If we will die anyways, and if we'll go to heaven anyways, then what's wrong with hastening it? Selfishly speaking, it only seems advantageous. Are there only altruistic reasons for not doing it?
Thoughts?
I agree that Christians can have depression. Then we pray for God's guidance. In some cases, God might want you on medication because there is something your body needs just as we need certain minerals and vitamins in our diets to stay physically healthy. If you love God, you want to obey Him. If you trust God to care for you in all circumstances, you tell Satan to leave and stop whispering thoughts of suicide. You tell your doctor that the medication is inadequate.
Have you killed yourself? The answer is, "No."
Mark 9:24
And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
1 Peter 5
7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.
Isaiah 26
3 Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee.
Luke 18 KJV
1 And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint;
Luke 18 NIV
1 Then Jesus told his disciples a parable to show them that they should always pray and not give up.
James 5
16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
17 Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.
18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit.
Do you believe God answers prayer? Do you believe God cares?
I believe that. There were times I wanted Him to let me die. But His will for my life is more important than my will.
Isaiah 55
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
God's will is that you live! If it was not His will, you wouldn't be here. God bless you --- He loves you!
Here are some links designed to shed some much-needed light on the subject of our brothers and sisters in Christ who suffer with depression. It is a very real thing, and not something to shrug off and take lightly; it is truly a nightmare for those who struggle with it as well as their families/friends who go through it with them, perhaps even struggling themselves. Along with that, I have included a link with a little food for thought regarding Christians and suicide. Many points made in this article make pretty good sense.
5 Things Christians Should Know About Depression and Anxiety
Can "Real" Christians Be Depressed?
7 Things NOT to Say to a Depressed Christian
If a Christian commits suicide, is he still forgiven? | CARM Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry
I'm not seeking to debate here, nor to add to the confusion of this already hard-to-understand issue; I'm merely trying to show a some reasonable perspectives based on the Bible. I hope these links are found to be helpful.
wanna witness,
1. In all due respect, the CARM view is Unconditional Eternal Security position and according to scripture is not true.
Eternal life being eternal is true because it is an eternal substance.
The possession of it is different being based on man's ability to make a free will choice contrary to God when sinning 1 John 2:1-2 even to the point of changing masters Roman's 6. Even Paul said he could become a reprobate if he didn't mortify the members of his body.
2. Suicide would have to be in most cases.
God is righteous and holy and sovereign and looks at the heart before the person gets to the point of suicide.
A friend of mine had a sibling who was an alcoholic in which he said he talked to him about the need to be saved and he agreed and prayed the sinner's prayer with him. The next day he committed suicide.
If he was cognitive and his heart was into living for God and believed by faith he was saved.
If he had a chemical imbalance which renders him as not cognitive because of his physical state that renders him to not overcome his depression. Was he still saved or not?
God knows and we may never really know completely until we reach the other side.
I got into a depressed state with my first marriage and took about 25 aspirin; the first five w/o water. I didn't necessarily want to kill myself but I believe I had a chemical imbalance physically that prevented me from changing my mind to not take them.
I probably wouldn't have died and fortunately I walked it off and they didn't have to pump my stomach. Talk about ignorance being blessed.
The devil is out there to steal, kill, and destroy the Christian and try to take advantage of those who may not have knowledge of certain things. We are not perfect in our knowledge. Some will have the chance to make a cognitive decision before they commit suicide but those that may not because of a physical condition already in play such as my friend's sibling might be different. Who knows? Only God for sure. Food for thought! Jerry Kelso
What you say makes sense, also. And when I said many points in the suicide article from CARM made sense, I was not saying I agreed with all of it. It just had some points that I thought were good that I felt would lend some understanding to the subject of Christians with depression, even to contemplating suicide. I don't understand a lot about "chemical imbalances" and what causes them. I just know they're not normal and make the human body and mind go crazy. I can't really understand suicide myself, and I worry for those who are contemplating it, mainly because life is precious and God does not wish for any life to end until He wants it to. I do, however, understand depression. It's very real in my family; I even have it to a degree, although not where it's worrisome. Therefore, I can sympathize with those who suffer it, Christian or not. But as long as we are on this earth, we will suffer illnesses. Depression is an illness, just like cancer, hepatitis, and lupus are illnesses. We are not going to be totally whole until we get our glorified bodies.
You are right. Who knows these things better than God Himself?
Thanks for the food for thought.
That's a rather harsh thing to say to a Christian who may be depressed, or mentally ill. And I think it would be unkind, and untrue, to tell the relatives of a person who committed suicide, "your loved one had Satan in them and is in hell."
None of us know their mind, heart or salvation; only God.
Priest: "She has taken her own life, my son... Her soul cannot be saved...she is damned. It is God's law."
Dracula: "Is this my reward for defending God's Church?!"
Priest: "Sacrilege! Do not turn your back against Christ!! He has chosen you to protect..."
Dracula: "I renounce Him! I renounce God! ...and all you hypocrites who feed off Him! If my beloved burns in Hell, so shall I..."
If a christian kills himself, he still goes to heaven, right? If God truly forgave him and accepted him in his kingdom, he won't change his mind later. Even if a sin like self-murder is commited.
So, other than perhaps not being a usable tool in God's earthly projects (such as bringing others to christ), and perhaps bearing a bad testimony to those left behind, why shouldn't a child of God prematurely die (that is, not by a "natural" cause, but by a willful choice)? I understand the motives may be selfish, but still.
If we will die anyways, and if we'll go to heaven anyways, then what's wrong with hastening it? Selfishly speaking, it only seems advantageous. Are there only altruistic reasons for not doing it?
Thoughts?
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