Why Roman Catholicism is wrong

[Korah]

A hot topic here in TCL is whether to be Roman Catholic or not. I want to start a new thread on why I know RC is not the One True Church, but if so I need guidelines set. Some Roman Catholics are posting lately in TCL. If I set out my dozen reasons against RC, should we allow RCs to defend themselves? If so, we risk letting TCL be taken over like all the threads in General Theology that go to hundreds of posts covering the same points over and over again. And there are more Roman Catholic apologists out there than there are Lutherans.
I suggest I present my dozen reasons and we Lutherans debate among ourselves what should be stricken or reworded or added to. Then the finished product could stand as a "sticky" like the Augsburg Confession.
I also suggest we stick with twelve reasons, however much we alter them, or else expand all the same up to 95.
Korah

 

[PreachersWife2004]

The rules allow a little bit for what I like to call "active, lively participation" from guests. This would include Catholics as far as I'm concerned.

I think as long as everyone is expressing their views and providing A + B = C backup then there shouldn't be a problem.

That said, I am not a moderator for this forum so take what I write with a grain of salt and post away!!

 

[Ave Maria]

I think it would only be fair to let Roman Catholics like myself defend our Church.

 

[MichaelFJF]

What a nice, friendly, inviting thread title. And you wonder why a Catholic might come into this thread with a chip on their shoulder?

 

[MichaelFJF]

I think it would only be fair to let Roman Catholics like myself defend our Church.

Yeah, except it will be a moot point by Friday.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

You guys get to defend Catholicism quite a bit in OBOB (you'll notice very few Lutherans over there trying to defend ourselves, and those that do are usually trying to clear up a misconception, not convert everyone) and you also get your fair share of time of the floor in GT.

 

[QuiltAngel]

It seems to me that the Roman Catholics who have been posting in here have been posting because they are considering leaving the RC church and are considering Lutheranism. They are asking questions and have been discussing different issues that they are struggling with in making that decision as to which church has the theology that they agree with. There is nothing wrong with that.

That is a much different thing that what you, Korah, are suggesting. Personally, I don't think it would serve any purpose to have a discussion where we come up with a dozen reasons why not RC and make it a sticky. We have the 95 thesis and we have the Book of Concord. How can we improve upon that? Then, where do we stop? Do we do the same for any and all other denominations?

I for one think that the way we have been doing it for so long works quite well. If we had a sticky as to why Roman Catholicism is wrong, how inviting would that be to someone who really wants to ask questions and understand? They will see that and will not stop to discuss as that would put them on the defensive from the beginning.

 

[Tofferer]

Hatred only begets hatred. Such being the case, there is no purpose in a thread such as this one. There are many good christians within the RC church. Why should we offend them with a thread such as this?


I am not the OP, so I do not have the authority to request this. However, I can make this a suggestion. Such being the case, it is my suggestion that this thread be closed. Its purpose appears to be single minded and hateful in nature. Not only that, but there is already an active thread that addresses the RC church and its beliefs. We do not need two such threads.

 

[RadMan]

I can't find any constructive reason why we should make a list of "wrongs" targeting any religion that is Christian. Us Lutherans can't even get our own act together within our own denom. I'll actually go the other direction and say that the RCC, RO and EO have been more steadfast on their theology in the last 500 years than we have. We are constantly in flux. I'll have to go along with QA and Toff on this one.

Our whole aim in this forum has been as apologists while inviting others in to "discuss" theology with the Bible in hand and not spouting the church fathers interpretations.

Now if an SDA, Mormon or Muslim came in here I would think twice about letting a discussion ensue since we have no common base.





.

 

[LilLamb219]

I believe that any denom that is misrepresented has the right to make clarifications as long as they state facts without being argumentative...yep, there is a difference.

 

[jja1981]

the roman catholic chruch is the best place to be i reckon best form of practice you get so i wouldnt mock it!!!the pope and preists are quite strict on hot subjects like gay/lesbians gettting marrried etc.

also its the only place that has true facts on the events of jesus christ as the romans after where there at the time and the vatican city holds keys information to the time of jesus christ and has many transcipts!!!




jja


god bless

 

[DaRev]

If anyone wants to know what's wrong with the Roman Catholic Church, they need only read the Book of Concord. That pretty much sums it up. We don't need to dredge it all out in this forum.

http://www.bookofconcord.org

 

[Zecryphon]

Doesn't Korah's OP qualify as a call-out thread? And if so, shouldn't this whole thread be shut down as it violates the rules of this forum?

 

[Jim47]

I agree with everyone here who thinks the OP is not a good idea, and it would be my vote to change the OP to an invitation to discuss faith and religion with them in discussion type manner in hopes of some of them seeing the truth.

 

[Edial]

We already made 95 reasons and these are well recorded in history.

In my opinion, we need to try and find a balance of co-existing IN the faith of Christ while keeping the disagreements clearly defined, not blurred, like some agreements are formed.
(One needs to be a lawyer in order to understand some of these agreements. )

Learning to live together is a first step towards learning to love each other - AS individuals.

I would be the first one to disagree with the ecclesiastical points of the RC.
Hey ... I'm a Lutheran after all.
What do you expect me to do.

Once we get to Heaven there will be no disagreements - just redeemed individuals.

I agree with Jim, that the thread could be renamed in order to reflect the spirit of TCL more accurately.

Thanks,
Ed

 

[Korah]

Hatred only begets hatred. Such being the case, there is no purpose in a thread such as this one. There are many good christians within the RC church. Why should we offend them with a thread such as this?
I am not the OP, so I do not have the authority to request this. However, I can make this a suggestion. Such being the case, it is my suggestion that this thread be closed. Its purpose appears to be single minded and hateful in nature. Not only that, but there is already an active thread that addresses the RC church and its beliefs. We do not need two such threads.

There you go again, Tofferer.
You really have it in for me, don't you?
Quite unfairly, I might add. Aside from RCs themselves, I'm the biggest defender here of Roman Catholicism. With a few (dozen?) changes there, I would go back. But they're not going to happen.
That said, it would seem the burden is on me to state how vigorously I dissent from RC as it stands now. OK, so you don't want to hear it, fine.
Yes, several people have come on this forum torn between RC and something else. I wasn't talking about them. Some RC apologists have come over and bashed Lutheranism. There's only so much of that (maybe zero) we can allow here. Yes, I do agree with the middle ground that RC be allowed to clarify where we have misstated something.
And that said, there seems to be enough objection to the concept itself that this thread should be closed. We can stand on the 95 Theses and the Book of Concord. (For me personally it's only the Augsburg Confession and the Apology for the Augsburg Confession--both by Melanchthon, not Luther.)
Korah

 

[QuiltAngel]

Some RC apologists have come over and bashed Lutheranism. There's only so much of that (maybe zero) we can allow here. Yes, I do agree with the middle ground that RC be allowed to clarify where we have misstated something.
Korah

When those RC apologists come on here to bash Luther and Lutheranism, they are taken care of on a case by case. They are reminded that they may defend something that is being stated inaccurately, but that they may not tell us we are wrong and they may not try to convert.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

You guys get to defend Catholicism quite a bit in OBOB (you'll notice very few Lutherans over there trying to defend ourselves, and those that do are usually trying to clear up a misconception, not convert everyone) and you also get your fair share of time of the floor in GT.

.... those STUPID enough to venture into OBOB soly to "clear up" disinformation about Lutherans soon have a lump on the head and learn never to do that!


As for this thread, I actually hold the RCC in very high esteem, and if I - as a Lutheran - were to raze on any, I'd be much more apt to pick the fundies or even those "evangelicals."

MY biggest issues with the RCC, that caused me to leave and become Lutheran, fall into 3 basic categories:

1) They just don't seem to know when to quite. One Orthodox friend said to me, "My only grip about the the RCC is that it has never learned how to shut up!" The great majority of Lutheranism "fits" in Catholicism - but there's MUCH left over in the RCC, and it is remarkably weak. Too such western Catholic scholasticism, too little humility and Scripture. IF they would leave their theories to pious opinions - I'd maybe be a Catholic today, but they just gotta make it DOGMA and then call everyone who doesn't accept with a "heretic."

2) Their epistemology. Yup, go to GT and you'll see this is a big bug in my hat! In so many of those things that divide us, those things that make the RCC RCC and not Lutheran, the epistemology is circular.

3) Their ecclesiology. The ME-ism, the obsession with itself, all the "whoever listens to ME listens to Jesus," the obsession with institutionalism - I think it's divisive, it's not biblical and it's often jsut a way to excuse itself from accountability.

A lot of this could be sumed up with: Theology of Glory instead of Theology of the Cross.


BUT.... and I gotta say this.... I probably agree with the RCC 95% of the time. And it is SO obvious to me that Lutherans comes out of Catholicism - we are much like it. I love the embrace of litergy, Sacraments. So much more.


If I lived in a town and there were only two churches within 100 miles - a Catholic and an Assemblies of God, I'd go to the Catholic one. Wouldn't need to even think about it. But I did't write that. Somebody must know my password and edited my post and added that, so don't say I posted that.



.



.

 

[Edial]

We have our Sticky.
http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=6904145

And our guests hopefully would respect it.

They are certainly allowed to debate here, but by using the Scriptures.

 

[Tofferer]

There you go again, Tofferer.
You really have it in for me, don't you?

No. Nor do I appreciate being put in a position where I feel I need to defend myself. This is part of why I banned myself last time. I should hope that I need not do that again.