Why not Semper Reformantis?

[chrismon]

Why not Semper Reformantis?

I'm not asking a Latin question (even if the question is partially in Latin). I'm asking why the Reformed Church ascribes to the semantics of "reformanda" and not "reformantis" ? If re-formation is possible, once the proverbial Pandora's box is opened, which human being has the authority to open it and then to close it?

 

[heymikey80]

Why not Semper Reformantis?

I'm not asking a Latin question (even if the question is partially in Latin). I'm asking why the Reformed Church ascribes to the semantics of "reformanda" and not "reformantis" ? If re-formation is possible, once the proverbial Pandora's box is opened, which human being has the authority to open it and then to close it?

Because Reformation should take place until the perfect has come. So the church in its state awaiting Christ's return should continually seek to reform itself.

 

[chrismon]

Because Reformation should take place until the perfect has come. So the church in its state awaiting Christ's return should continually seek to reform itself.

I agree with you - which means your "because" is inappropriate - you're answering the reverse of the question I am asking.

Maybe this will help you: "reformanda" is a past participle, while "reformantis" is the present.

 

[heymikey80]

I agree with you - which means your "because" is inappropriate - you're answering the reverse of the question I am asking.

Maybe this will help you: "reformanda" is a past participle, while "reformantis" is the present.

Ah, thank you, I don't know Latin; I do deal with broad linguistic issues though. That's interesting!

I once tried to track down the origin of the phrase and it came up in later Dutch reformers. Is it some kind of continuing tense? To me that would be one point at issue.

I do know the idea is to "reform" toward what was given to us by the Apostles in the past -- but if the action is always past-tense that wouldn't be implicated in the terms, either.

 

[chrismon]

Is it some kind of continuing tense? To me that would be one point at issue.

Right, to say "reformanda" is to say "we righted", or we "reformed", "what was wrong, and this can only happen once - now we are aright". Of course this is rediculous because there is no assurance that one is more right than another (despite my own views on the subject ).

To say "reformantis" is to say as a whole the Church continually experiences, is experiences, repentence and discipleship, is repenting and is growing. The boone to the Church in that mode of thinking is the recognition of the great joy that God continues to reveal himself - this never changes what God has made clearly true about himself, but changes us. And after all, if we are wrong, the Lord is still God.

 

[JimfromOhio]

We are to continue to "REFORM" to make sure we focus on spiritual matters rather than temporal matters. We are Christians simply because we have accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior. As disciples, our Christian faith should be inward, not outward because the Bible teaches that faith is of the spirit and not of the flesh. Christ dwells in our hearts, and "Christ in you, the hope of glory" (Colossians 1:27) is the burning core of the Christian faith. Jesus said in Matthew 22:37 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'

 

[Bulldog]

I agree with you - which means your "because" is inappropriate - you're answering the reverse of the question I am asking.

Maybe this will help you: "reformanda" is a past participle, while "reformantis" is the present.

What does the use of "Semper" preceding it make it?

 

[inchristalone221]

Semper is Latin for always. Like "semper fidelus" or always faithful, the motto of the US marine corp if I remember rightly.

 

[Bulldog]

Semper is Latin for always. Like "semper fidelus" or always faithful, the motto of the US marine corp if I remember rightly.

I know. So does "Semper Reformanda" mean "(we) always reformed"?

 

[chrismon]

I know. So does "Semper Reformanda" mean "(we) always reformed"?

"semeper reformanda" is "always reformed" or "semper reformantis" as "perpetually reforming".

In this case "reformanda" has a (grammatically) perfect sense to it. It is a singular event in the past. And, that is my gripe with the use of "reformanda".

On the other hand, my idea of "reformantis" is imperfect and implies that re-formation is a continuing process of discipleship for the people of God. Of course, I like that more

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

"semeper reformanda" is "always reformed" or "semper reformantis" as "perpetually reforming".

In this case "reformanda" has a (grammatically) perfect sense to it. It is a singular event in the past. And, that is my gripe with the use of "reformanda".

On the other hand, my idea of "reformantis" is imperfect and implies that re-formation is a continuing process of discipleship for the people of God. Of course, I like that more

Thanks for all this information. I have always been told that semper reformanda meant exactly what you say semper refomantis means.

Thanks for the correction.
Kenith

 

[chrismon]

Thanks for all this information. I have always been told that semper reformanda meant exactly what you say semper refomantis means.

Thanks for the correction.
Kenith

What's funny is that I had thought the same way, until I started looking into it recently. I could be wrong... I'm asking that someone would either correct my Latin or try to show why the Church should re-form once, only once, and for all time.

If my Latin is correct, I'm certainly glad that my Presbyterian denomination does not blindy accept the WCF but believes in reformantis.


p.s. see the following link: http://www.slu.edu/colleges/AS/languages/classical/latin/tchmat/grammar/whprax/w23ppl-f.html#mean

 

[HiredGoon]

From Answers.com:

A shortened form of a motto of the Protestant Reformation, Ecclesia reformata semper reformanda est secundu Verbum Dei ("the reformed Church is always being reformed according to the Word of God"), which refers to the Protestant argument that the church must continually re-examine itself, reconsider its doctrines, and be prepared to accept change, in order to conform more closely to orthodox Christian belief as revealed in Holy Scripture. The shortened form, semper reformanda, literally means "ever to be reformed", and the usual translation, "always reforming", is taken from a sentence where it is used in a passive periphrastic construction.

 

[chrismon]

Now that agrees with what I've always thought "andus, anda" means (just like in other romance languages, it is not the past perfect, but the present participle).

Well, the Church is saved through superior Latin grammar skills! Hallelujah!

Of course, this begs the question, if this is the Reformed motto, why do folks like the OPC get their panties in such a bunch when anyone suggests a re-formation of their interpretation of Calvin or of the mighty WCF? For them, perhaps being the "Reformed Church" works... I, however, as the motto more than suggests, am part of the "Reforming Church!

Does this mean we can constantly reform at will? Of course not! This does not mean that we reform out of personal or human preference or in deference to the dominant culture. What it does mean is that we continually reform towards Jesus, towards the meaning of being a people that live out of the promise that the Kingdom is near and hope and readiness we must have as God's people. Reformation ought not to be a process of doctrine but of discipleship

 

[Rick Otto]

I heard they took some lexicon liberties with scripture in the Vulgate, but I haven't thouroughly researched that rumor.
I for one, wouldn't want to be reffered to as a "Praying Reformantis".
Perhaps we should ditch all the Latin in favor of Greek, or Aramaic, but not Hebrew... maybe Yiddish!
Still,
Quid Latinae dictum sit altum viditur!
(Anything in Latin sounds profound!)