Why not "Christianity and Science"?

[shernren]

I know that this suggestion is a drastic one, but I've been thinking about it and I can't really see any problems other than that it would require more work by the webmaster. (Maybe I'm going to be a bad scientist ... not knowing how to discard my own hypotheses! ) Anyway the suggestion is:

Why not we rename this forum "Christianity and Science"?

The reason I'm suggesting it is because recently topics have been cropping up here that don't really deal with evolution per se, but rather with the relationship between Christianity and science, namely vossler's thread about George Washington Carver and mark's "theology of creationism" thread which has significantly evolved and that got me thinking. Isn't it a bit myopic to just think about the origins debate when it comes to Christianity and science? There's a lot else to discuss about Christianity and science:

- testimonies of good Christian scientists
- the scientific beliefs of the early Christians e.g. did they really believe in geocentrism and an immobile earth? or not?
- current scientific controversies and Christianity e.g. human embryonic stem cell research (though that might infringe on the Christian Ethics domain)
- the place of science in a Christian understanding of the world
- and homework help for desperate CF members!

Maybe we can retain the existing crevo discussions in Christianity and Science, or we could make a subforum within it for such discussions.

I'm relatively new here (1 year) so I don't know if my suggestion is workable or usable. Feedback?

 

[mark kennedy]

I know that this suggestion is a drastic one, but I've been thinking about it and I can't really see any problems other than that it would require more work by the webmaster. (Maybe I'm going to be a bad scientist ... not knowing how to discard my own hypotheses! ) Anyway the suggestion is:

Why not we rename this forum "Christianity and Science"?

The reason I'm suggesting it is because recently topics have been cropping up here that don't really deal with evolution per se, but rather with the relationship between Christianity and science, namely vossler's thread about George Washington Carver and mark's "theology of creationism" thread which has significantly evolved and that got me thinking. Isn't it a bit myopic to just think about the origins debate when it comes to Christianity and science? There's a lot else to discuss about Christianity and science:

- testimonies of good Christian scientists
- the scientific beliefs of the early Christians e.g. did they really believe in geocentrism and an immobile earth? or not?
- current scientific controversies and Christianity e.g. human embryonic stem cell research (though that might infringe on the Christian Ethics domain)
- the place of science in a Christian understanding of the world
- and homework help for desperate CF members!

Maybe we can retain the existing crevo discussions in Christianity and Science, or we could make a subforum within it for such discussions.

I'm relatively new here (1 year) so I don't know if my suggestion is workable or usable. Feedback?

Currently I don't think the common area has an actual name except Origins Theology. Obviously, TEs have problems with creationists understanding of science and creationists have questions about TEs theology. It seems reasonable to want to want to focus the forum on common ground between science and Christian thinking. The perception seems to be that creationism is somehow opposed to modern science and evolution. I don't really think it is but that is at least the perception. I'm wondering if maybe creating some kind of an archive for keeping some of the more important exchanges would be helpfull.

I suggested in Creationism a locked thread for presenting essays and indepth discussions. Later I would recommend to the senior staff that a sticky (or something like it) be added as a resource. Renaming the common area seems like a pretty good idea but a lot of good discussion just gets buried by new threads. I think it would be nice if we could boil some of the principles down and create a resource of some kind.

The goal of CF is to unite Christians together into one body. It might help to attrached more Christians to the discussions if this were a place where science and Scripture were being reconcilled. I think a lot of people come on here, see the debates going on and just go find something else to do. Also, many people new to the discussions step in and have no clue what is being discussed. It would be nice if we could point them to a place where concise descriptions of the issues are kept along with resource guides.

Bear in mind that this is a theology subfourm. I think something like Theology and Science would make more sense then origins theology. At any rate I'm open to it and if we can get something comprehensive I'd be willing to suggest it to the senior staff. If they like the idea, I would be willing to ask Erwin what he thinks of the idea.

Obviously we are going to have debates on here. It would be nice if the ultimate goal of edifying believers in their undertanding of Christian theology and science became the focus. When you think about it, science and theology are tools, as Christians interested in science we should intellectually skilled at using both.

I look forward to the discussion and suggest we give this idea some serious thought. It probably wouldn't hurt to add it to your prayer list if you so inclined.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[shernren]

Currently I don't think the common area has an actual name except Origins Theology. Obviously, TEs have problems with creationists understanding of science and creationists have questions about TEs theology. It seems reasonable to want to want to focus the forum on common ground between science and Christian thinking. The perception seems to be that creationism is somehow opposed to modern science and evolution.

Oh dear. While I do sympathise somewhat with that view I never, never intended the perception to be that way. To be honest I'm quite jaded with all the old used arguments from BOTH sides. The reason I've been involved in Origins Theology has really been because of my interest in both theology and science. And yet to just focus that discussion on evolution seems to be a bit narrow-minded. What difference has Christianity made to the other areas of science - chemistry? physics? What good are Christians doing there? What can us ordinary Christians do about it?

I do not doubt that there will continue to be lots of cr-evo discussions even if we rename the forum. But if we have a wider discussion on science, as well as threads on cr-evo differences, I hope we can see a smaller proportion of "we right-they wrong" discussions. Right now the proportion is hovering somewhere around 9 out of 10 - probably more - and it really hurts me to see that we are focussing a lot on what we disagree on rather than what we agree on. Balanced discussion - reminding us of both our unity and our diversity - should be something we work towards.

 

[mark kennedy]

Oh dear. While I do sympathise somewhat with that view I never, never intended the perception to be that way. To be honest I'm quite jaded with all the old used arguments from BOTH sides. The reason I've been involved in Origins Theology has really been because of my interest in both theology and science. And yet to just focus that discussion on evolution seems to be a bit narrow-minded. What difference has Christianity made to the other areas of science - chemistry? physics? What good are Christians doing there? What can us ordinary Christians do about it?

I do not doubt that there will continue to be lots of cr-evo discussions even if we rename the forum. But if we have a wider discussion on science, as well as threads on cr-evo differences, I hope we can see a smaller proportion of "we right-they wrong" discussions. Right now the proportion is hovering somewhere around 9 out of 10 - probably more - and it really hurts me to see that we are focussing a lot on what we disagree on rather than what we agree on. Balanced discussion - reminding us of both our unity and our diversity - should be something we work towards.

It's kind of odd, creationism is based on theological issues but creationists rarely discuss systematic theology. With evolution I have noticed that often people argueing proevolution have never heard on Darwinism or the modern synthesis. The thing is, I think we could all benefit from learning more about both science and theology.

I'm in a discussion with a guy who worked on a paper I have been looking over for months. He has been helping get a handle on the various genes involved, how natural selection is measured..etc. I'll tell you the truth, if I could get a Bible study with that much depth I would have given this creation/evolution thing up long ago.

I don't think that science has anything to do with my religious views and rarely argue against evolution from religious conviction. Science is about tools, mental and physical and tools require direct contact. Theology is about God and things unseen, we walk by faith not by sight. I get a little tried of seeing the common ground of science and theology turned into a no man's land. I think it would help if we encouraged people to learn more about both without thinking they have to choose between them.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[vossler]

Why not we rename this forum "Christianity and Science"?

Tee, I'd love to do some of what you stated here, but to be perfectly honest, even the example you cited regarding Carver was divisive along TE/YEC lines. TEs by and large were against it (you were an exception), while YECs were for it.

I was really hoping to see a different response, one with more unison between us.

 

[shernren]

Tee, I'd love to do some of what you stated here, but to be perfectly honest, even the example you cited regarding Carver was divisive along TE/YEC lines. TEs by and large were against it (you were an exception), while YECs were for it.

I was really hoping to see a different response, one with more unison between us.

Maybe, just maybe, the whole reason why there was a divisive response is that we've become so conditioned to think about things divisively. Being on an Origins Theology forum, every post has to be about origins, right? And being about origins, every post has to be somewhere between the TE and YEC position, right? And since every post has to be saying something about that whole cr-evo debate, a post which talks about God being in science has to be there to be later maneuvered into a creationist point, right?

That is the sort of thinking we have let our minds get locked into.

 

[vossler]

Maybe, just maybe, the whole reason why there was a divisive response is that we've become so conditioned to think about things divisively. Being on an Origins Theology forum, every post has to be about origins, right? And being about origins, every post has to be somewhere between the TE and YEC position, right? And since every post has to be saying something about that whole cr-evo debate, a post which talks about God being in science has to be there to be later maneuvered into a creationist point, right?

Even if this is true, do you cut off your nose to spite your face? Hardly productive!

That is the sort of thinking we have let our minds get locked into.

Sad but true.

 

[disciple777]

I know that this suggestion is a drastic one, but I've been thinking about it and I can't really see any problems other than that it would require more work by the webmaster. (Maybe I'm going to be a bad scientist ... not knowing how to discard my own hypotheses! ) Anyway the suggestion is:

Why not we rename this forum "Christianity and Science"?

The reason I'm suggesting it is because recently topics have been cropping up here that don't really deal with evolution per se, but rather with the relationship between Christianity and science, namely vossler's thread about George Washington Carver and mark's "theology of creationism" thread which has significantly evolved and that got me thinking. Isn't it a bit myopic to just think about the origins debate when it comes to Christianity and science? There's a lot else to discuss about Christianity and science:

- testimonies of good Christian scientists
- the scientific beliefs of the early Christians e.g. did they really believe in geocentrism and an immobile earth? or not?
- current scientific controversies and Christianity e.g. human embryonic stem cell research (though that might infringe on the Christian Ethics domain)
- the place of science in a Christian understanding of the world
- and homework help for desperate CF members!

Maybe we can retain the existing crevo discussions in Christianity and Science, or we could make a subforum within it for such discussions.

I'm relatively new here (1 year) so I don't know if my suggestion is workable or usable. Feedback?

yes, very good idea