Why not both?

[Willtor]

Similarity of design indicates a common designer, not a common ancestor.

As Loudmouth says, it's nested hierarchy that's the clincher. If God created in the way you think, it's really surprising not to find a single species that doesn't fit the nested hierarchy required by evolution. Just one example! Creation of each species independently might lead one to expect similarities, but it doesn't predict a nested hierarchy.

This is evidence for evolution and against independent creation of the species.

 

[Oncedeceived]

As Loudmouth says, it's nested hierarchy that's the clincher. If God created in the way you think, it's really surprising not to find a single species that doesn't fit the nested hierarchy required by evolution. Just one example! Creation of each species independently might lead one to expect similarities, but it doesn't predict a nested hierarchy.

This is evidence for evolution and against independent creation of the species.

Explain why common design doesn't provide a nested hierarchy?

 

[Willtor]

Explain why common design doesn't provide a nested hierarchy?

It's one thing for the common designer to say "this group of species will have the same virus embedded in their genomes" but quite another to say, "and the SNPs (Single Nucleotide Polymorphisms) in that virus will cluster among the similar sub-groups." The latter is the designer trying to make it look as though the sub-groups share common ancestry among themselves, and then common ancestry with one another, further back.

To put it another way, one can say that a designer might have independently designed a bunch of species to look as though they shared common ancestry. But it's a false history. It's not unlike seeing a star that goes nova. If it's more than 6000 light years away, and if the universe is only 6000 years old, then the nova never actually occurred. We're seeing things that never happened.

 

[Blue Wren]

While there are a fair share of fundie types on these boards, who look at evolution as the working of the devil, but the reality is; the majority of Christians agree with the theory of evolution. Which means, they accept the evidence we evolved over a very long period of time and they likely believe, God got the ball rolling somehow.

This, is true.

I can accept both. And do. Leaning more and more away from the biblical version as I get more and more sick of right wing fundamentalists.

Do you meet, many of these creationist people, where you live? I do not think, they are in big numbers, all over the US. It seems, to me, they live in the south, and in the farm areas. In Europe, creationism, it barely exists.

 

[crjmurray]

This, is true.



Do you meet, many of these creationist people, where you live? I do not think, they are in big numbers, all over the US. It seems, to me, they live in the south, and in the farm areas. In Europe, creationism, it barely exists.

Here in the south, most of the Christians you see are creationists. I'm always shocked when people talk about creationists as if they're a minority. Not down here.

 

[AV1611VET]

In Europe, creationism, it barely exists.

We know.

Europe is where the Antichrist is going to come from.

 

[crjmurray]

We know.

Europe is where the Antichrist is going to come from.

Good old xenophobia.

 

[AV1611VET]

Good old xenophobia.

I take it you think he will come from the United States then?

 

[crjmurray]

I take it you think he will come from the United States then?

I'm sure it's an equal opportunity position.

 

[AV1611VET]

I'm sure it's an equal opportunity position.

Either you think he will come from the United States, or your xenophobia remark can take a hike.

How's that?

 

[Blue Wren]

Here in the south, most of the Christians you see are creationists. I'm always shocked when people talk about creationists as if they're a minority. Not down here.

You said your family, they farm, yes? I think, maybe, creationism, it is more common, in the south, and in the farming areas.

 

[crjmurray]

You said your family, they farm, yes? I think, maybe, creationism, it is more common, in the south, and in the farming areas.

It's because of the general trend towards anti-intillectualism you see in rural areas.

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

I'm not labeling you as anything, I'm just "doing the math" so to speak. I would expect people who believe in the Antichrist (this ultimate embodiment of evil and everything wrong) to project some of their own biases on to the characteristics of it. It could be a fun sociological experiment to do.....

I think there is an app for that.

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

Saw that one coming.

What else?

He votes for the Green Party -- and smokes copious quantities of Cannabis Sativa.

 

[crjmurray]

He votes for the Green Party -- and smokes copious quantities of Cannabis Sativa.

Hahaha I've got a checklist of predictions. I'll add weed smoker and to it.

 

[AV1611VET]

He votes for the Green Party -- and smokes copious quantities of Cannabis Sativa.

Hahaha I've got a checklist of predictions. I'll add weed smoker and to it.

Am I boring you guys?

Or are you afraid you might learn something?

 

[crjmurray]

Two good points:

1. He will come from the tribe of Dan, since Jacob said ...

Genesis 49:17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.

2. He will come from the tribe of Ephraim, since Ephraim was instrumental in leading the Israelites into idolatry.

Notice this passage ...

Revelation 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Revelation 7:5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
Revelation 7:6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
Revelation 7:7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
Revelation 7:8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

Notice what two tribes aren't mentioned?

Which ones AV?

 

[AV1611VET]

Which ones AV?

Cute.

 

[crjmurray]

Cute.

?

I'm asking.

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

Am I boring you guys?

Or are you afraid you might learn something?

Of course, I forgot those two rare qualities any potential AC must have: Boring and Afraid -- now that really narrows it down.