Why no instructions ?

[RMDY]

erm, where is that in the Bible?

Some of us must stop acting as lawyers and debating "well it didn't say this, therefore....")

We must look at the whole picture beginning from O.T. on the biblical view on things rather than the wordly interpretation.

For example:

Ephesians 6:1-4
Children, obey your parents because you belong to the Lord, for this is the right thing to do. Honor your father and mother.This is the first commandment with a promise: If you honor your father and mother,things will go well for you, and you will have a long life on the earth. Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger by the way you treat them. Rather, bring them up with the discipline and instruction that comes from the Lord.

 

[dayhiker]

Because God does not allow gay marriages and considers it to be an abomination.

I once did a study of the word abombination ... about 80% of its uses were in referance to idol worship. So I'd say unless the scriptural context shows otherwise that idol works in involved.

I don't see idol worship involved in homosexual marriages, so I don't see that as abomination to God.

dayhiker

 

[MelissaShae]

I once did a study of the word abombination ... about 80% of its uses were in referance to idol worship. So I'd say unless the scriptural context shows otherwise that idol works in involved.

I don't see idol worship involved in homosexual marriages, so I don't see that as abomination to God.

dayhiker

wll it says it in the KJV right there in black and white it says abomination.

And it is not about what you see but what God says and it is written in the scriptures that it is an abomination.

 

[Der Alte]

[SIZE=-1]I once did a study of the word abombination ... about 80% of its uses were in referance to idol worship. So I'd say unless the scriptural context shows otherwise that idol works in involved.

I don't see idol worship involved in homosexual marriages, so I don't see that as abomination to God.

dayhiker[/SIZE]

That is all quite interesting but rather than rely on the interpretation of someone who does not know Hebrew, let us see how the ancient Jewish scholars understood the Hebrew scriptures on this point? Do you somehow think all the Hebrew speaking Jewish scholars got it wrong and only you got it right?

Jewish Encyclopedia- Abomination:

Rendering in the English versions of different Biblical terms denoting that which is loathed or detested on religious grounds and which, therefore, is utterly offensive to the Deity. These terms differ greatly in the degree of the abhorrence implied and should be distinguished in translation, as follows:

[size=+1]תועבה[/size] (to'ebah):Abomination of the highest degree; originally that which offends the religious sense of a people. Thus (Gen. xliii. 32): "The Egyptians might not eat bread with the Hebrews; for that is an abomination unto the Egyptians." The reason is that the Hebrews, as foreigners, were considered an inferior caste. According to Herodotus, ii. 41, no Egyptian would kiss a Greek on the mouth, or use his dish, or even taste meat cut with a carving-knife belonging to a Greek. But especially as shepherds the Hebrews were "an abomination unto the Egyptians" (Gen. xlvi. 34). The eating of unclean animals is a religious offense called to'ebah: "Thou shalt not eat any abominable thing" (Deut. xiv. 3). This is the introduction to the laws prohibiting the use of unclean animals (see Clean and Unclean Animals). Still more offensive to the God of Israel is the practice of idolatry. The idol itself is called an Abomination: "for it is an abomination to the Lord thy God. Neither shalt thou bring an abomination into thine house and thus become a thing set apart [tabooed=kherem] like unto it; thou shalt utterly detest it and utterly abhor it; for it is a thing set apart [tabooed]" (Deut. vii. 25, 26, Heb.): "Cursed be the man that maketh a graven or molten image, an abomination unto the Lord" (Deut. xxvii. 15). Often the word to'ebah is used for idol or heathen deity; for instance, in Isa. xliv. 19; Deut. xxxii. 16; II Kings, xxiii. 13, and especially Ex. viii. 22 (26, A. V.), it is to be taken in this sense. When Pharaoh had told the Israelites to offer sacrifices to their God in Egypt, Moses replied: "How may we sacrifice the abomination of the Egyptians [that is, the kind of animals worshiped by them] before their eyes, and they not stone us?" (see Ibn Ezra, ad loc.).

All idolatrous practise is an Abomination because of its defiling character: "Every abomination to the Lord which he hateth have they done unto their gods" (Deut. xii. 31; compare Deut. xiii. 15, xvii. 4, xx. 18). Also magic and divination are an Abomination (Deut. xviii. 12). Sexual transgression is particularly denounced as an Abomination (to'ebah) (Deut. xxii. 5, xxiii. 19 [18, A. V.], xxiv. 4); especially incest and unnatural offenses (Lev. xviii. and xx.): "For all these abominations have the men of the land done who were before you, and the land became defiled; lest the land vomit you out also when ye defile it" (Lev. xviii. 27, 28, Heb.; compare also Ezek. viii. 15 and elsewhere).

But the word to'ebah also assumes a higher spiritual meaning and is applied also to moral iniquities: "Thou shalt not have in thine house divers measures, a great and a small. . . For all that do such things, and all that do unrighteously, are an abomination unto the Lord thy God" (Deut. xxv. 14-16). In the same strain we are taught that "lying lips" (Prov. xii. 22), "the perverse" (ib. iii. 32, R.V.) the "proud in heart" (ib. xvi. 5), "the way of the wicked" (ib. xv. 9), "thoughts of evil" (ib. xv. 26, Heb.), and "he that justifieth the wicked and he that condemneth the righteous" (ib. xvii. 15) are an Abomination. "These six things doth the Lord hate, yea, seven things are an abomination to him: haughty eyes; a lying tongue; hands that shed innocent blood; a heart that deviseth wicked imaginations; feet that be swift in running to mischief; a false witness that uttereth lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren" (ib. vi. 16-19, Heb.). In another direction the prohibition of an abominable thing is given an ethical meaning: "Thou shalt not sacrifice unto the Lord thy God an ox or a sheep wherein is a blemish, for that is an abomination unto the Lord thy God" (Deut. xvii. 1, Heb.). Here the physical character of the sacrifice is offensive. But prophet and sage declare that any sacrifice without purity of motive is an Abomination: "Bring no more an oblation of falsehood—an incense of abomination it is to me" (Isa. i. 13, Heb.; compare Jer. vii. 10). "The sacrifice of the wicked" (Prov. xv. 8, xxi. 27) and the prayer of "him that turneth his ear from hearing the law" (Prov. xxviii. 9, Heb.) are an Abomination.

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=352&letter=A
​

 

[MelissaShae]

That is all quite interesting but rather than rely on the interpretation of someone who does not know Hebrew, let us see how the ancient Jewish scholars understood the Hebrew scriptures on this point? Do you somehow think all the Hebrew speaking Jewish scholars got it wrong and only you got it right?

Jewish Encyclopedia- Abomination:​

Rendering in the English versions of different Biblical terms denoting that which is loathed or detested on religious grounds and which, therefore, is utterly offensive to the Deity. These terms differ greatly in the degree of the abhorrence implied and should be distinguished in translation, as follows:​

[SIZE=+1]תועבה[/SIZE] (to'ebah):Abomination of the highest degree; originally that which offends the religious sense of a people. Thus (Gen. xliii. 32): "The Egyptians might not eat bread with the Hebrews; for that is an abomination unto the Egyptians." The reason is that the Hebrews, as foreigners, were considered an inferior caste. According to Herodotus, ii. 41, no Egyptian would kiss a Greek on the mouth, or use his dish, or even taste meat cut with a carving-knife belonging to a Greek. But especially as shepherds the Hebrews were "an abomination unto the Egyptians" (Gen. xlvi. 34). The eating of unclean animals is a religious offense called to'ebah: "Thou shalt not eat any abominable thing" (Deut. xiv. 3). This is the introduction to the laws prohibiting the use of unclean animals (see Clean and Unclean Animals). Still more offensive to the God of Israel is the practice of idolatry. The idol itself is called an Abomination: "for it is an abomination to the Lord thy God. Neither shalt thou bring an abomination into thine house and thus become a thing set apart [tabooed=kherem] like unto it; thou shalt utterly detest it and utterly abhor it; for it is a thing set apart [tabooed]" (Deut. vii. 25, 26, Heb.): "Cursed be the man that maketh a graven or molten image, an abomination unto the Lord" (Deut. xxvii. 15). Often the word to'ebah is used for idol or heathen deity; for instance, in Isa. xliv. 19; Deut. xxxii. 16; II Kings, xxiii. 13, and especially Ex. viii. 22 (26, A. V.), it is to be taken in this sense. When Pharaoh had told the Israelites to offer sacrifices to their God in Egypt, Moses replied: "How may we sacrifice the abomination of the Egyptians [that is, the kind of animals worshiped by them] before their eyes, and they not stone us?" (see Ibn Ezra, ad loc.).​

All idolatrous practise is an Abomination because of its defiling character: "Every abomination to the Lord which he hateth have they done unto their gods" (Deut. xii. 31; compare Deut. xiii. 15, xvii. 4, xx. 18). Also magic and divination are an Abomination (Deut. xviii. 12). Sexual transgression is particularly denounced as an Abomination (to'ebah) (Deut. xxii. 5, xxiii. 19 [18, A. V.], xxiv. 4); especially incest and unnatural offenses (Lev. xviii. and xx.): "For all these abominations have the men of the land done who were before you, and the land became defiled; lest the land vomit you out also when ye defile it" (Lev. xviii. 27, 28, Heb.; compare also Ezek. viii. 15 and elsewhere).​

But the word to'ebah also assumes a higher spiritual meaning and is applied also to moral iniquities: "Thou shalt not have in thine house divers measures, a great and a small. . . For all that do such things, and all that do unrighteously, are an abomination unto the Lord thy God" (Deut. xxv. 14-16). In the same strain we are taught that "lying lips" (Prov. xii. 22), "the perverse" (ib. iii. 32, R.V.) the "proud in heart" (ib. xvi. 5), "the way of the wicked" (ib. xv. 9), "thoughts of evil" (ib. xv. 26, Heb.), and "he that justifieth the wicked and he that condemneth the righteous" (ib. xvii. 15) are an Abomination. "These six things doth the Lord hate, yea, seven things are an abomination to him: haughty eyes; a lying tongue; hands that shed innocent blood; a heart that deviseth wicked imaginations; feet that be swift in running to mischief; a false witness that uttereth lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren" (ib. vi. 16-19, Heb.). In another direction the prohibition of an abominable thing is given an ethical meaning: "Thou shalt not sacrifice unto the Lord thy God an ox or a sheep wherein is a blemish, for that is an abomination unto the Lord thy God" (Deut. xvii. 1, Heb.). Here the physical character of the sacrifice is offensive. But prophet and sage declare that any sacrifice without purity of motive is an Abomination: "Bring no more an oblation of falsehood—an incense of abomination it is to me" (Isa. i. 13, Heb.; compare Jer. vii. 10). "The sacrifice of the wicked" (Prov. xv. 8, xxi. 27) and the prayer of "him that turneth his ear from hearing the law" (Prov. xxviii. 9, Heb.) are an Abomination.​

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=352&letter=A​

Thank you for posting that!!!

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

Deleted.

 

[Catherineanne]

Because God does not allow gay marriages and considers it to be an abomination.

Can you give the Bible reference that says that God regards gay marriage as an abomination?

Or are you making this up?

 

[Catherineanne]

I once did a study of the word abombination ... about 80% of its uses were in referance to idol worship.

This is correct. And what is more the most common use in Kings and Chronicles is in relation to infanticide, which I hope we would all consider far more of an abomination to ourselves and to God than any consenting adult same sex behaviour.

If the homophobes could take a break from riding their hobby horses for a while, and investigate infanticide instead, they might find a whole new dimension to abomination in relation to ancient times, and a whole new perspective on what exactly the prophets were condemning so strongly for many hundreds of years. It was the ritual sacrifice of first born children, which was eventually, thank God, subliminated into the atoning sacrifice of doves or a lamb, and later still became the motif for the sacrifice of Christ himself.

But it all derives from ritual infanticide of first born (usually) male children, together with the parallel ritual sacrifice of first born animals. And this is backed up by some very gruesome archaeology from Phoenicia.

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

I started to copy/paste all the Greek definitions for brotherhood, neighbor, etc., but then I realized that if you were wanting to know what was and is meant you would have already looked them up.

Jesus spoke of His love for children and even told His disciples to not forbid them to come to Him setting the example of how precious they are. He told us that we had to believe like a child, so I think that if we look at the scriptures, well it is pretty clear how children should be treated.

Here are some scriptures tho:

Matt. 19:13-14
13Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them.
14But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

Matt. 18:4-6
4Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

5And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me. 6But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.


I would assume that by using the word whoso that that would include parents, but .....................



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How about addressing EVERY part of the post. I already knew about the second one, I was just clarifying that we were on the same page. The first paragraph is the only important part.

 

[MelissaShae]

Can you give the Bible reference that says that God regards gay marriage as an abomination?

Or are you making this up?

Oh yes I just love to quote scripture that is entirely made up........

did you bother to read any of my other posts because I posted the scripture where God says men lying with men is an abomination.............so then if that is an abomination gay marriage would be because that would be a man lying with a man.

Read the post previously posted and the scripture because it is all in there.

 

[MelissaShae]

If the homophobes could take a break from riding their hobby horses for a while, and investigate infanticide instead, they might find a whole new dimension to abomination in relation to ancient times, and a whole new perspective on what exactly the prophets were condemning so strongly for many hundreds of years. It was the ritual sacrifice of first born children, which was eventually, thank God, subliminated into the atoning sacrifice of doves or a lamb, and later still became the motif for the sacrifice of Christ himself.

definition of homophobia is:

ho·mo·pho·bi·an. 1. Fear of or contempt for lesbians and gay men.
2. Behavior based on such a feeling.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/homophobia

not supporting gay marriage is not the same thing as being a homophobe. I do not have fear of or contempt for homosexuals. I love them as I love all my neighbors and even my enemies, but I do not support their sin of engaging in same sex lust.

So don't put labels on people because if that was being done to you, you would cry judgment and bias and you are doing just that.

 

[savedandhappy1]

How about addressing EVERY part of the post. I already knew about the second one, I was just clarifying that we were on the same page. The first paragraph is the only important part.

I'm sorry I thought I did address the entire post, so if you don't mind please let me know what part I missed?

Oh, and ALL CAP yelling doesn't really do much for the asking process, just in case you didn't realize that. I suppose there was some point or whatever that you were trying to make with it, so .

​

 

[savedandhappy1]

This is correct. And what is more the most common use in Kings and Chronicles is in relation to infanticide, which I hope we would all consider far more of an abomination to ourselves and to God than any consenting adult same sex behaviour.

If the homophobes could take a break from riding their hobby horses for a while, and investigate infanticide instead, they might find a whole new dimension to abomination in relation to ancient times, and a whole new perspective on what exactly the prophets were condemning so strongly for many hundreds of years. It was the ritual sacrifice of first born children, which was eventually, thank God, subliminated into the atoning sacrifice of doves or a lamb, and later still became the motif for the sacrifice of Christ himself.

But it all derives from ritual infanticide of first born (usually) male children, together with the parallel ritual sacrifice of first born animals. And this is backed up by some very gruesome archaeology from Phoenicia.

So because they killed first born male children, which is wrong and a sin, no other sin counts?

By the way, just because someone calls homosexuality a sin, like the bible does, doesn't make someone homophobic. What do you call someone who calls stealing a sin, like the bible does? Are they a stealophoic?

In case you didn't know this is a debate, and attacking the people is not suppose to be done. Hope it made you feel better tho.

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[Der Alte]

[SIZE=-1]This is correct. And what is more the most common use in Kings and Chronicles is in relation to infanticide, which I hope we would all consider far more of an abomination to ourselves and to God than any consenting adult same sex behaviour.

If the homophobes could take a break from riding their hobby horses for a while, and investigate infanticide instead, they might find a whole new dimension to abomination in relation to ancient times, and a whole new perspective on what exactly the prophets were condemning so strongly for many hundreds of years. It was the ritual sacrifice of first born children, which was eventually, thank God, subliminated into the atoning sacrifice of doves or a lamb, and later still became the motif for the sacrifice of Christ himself.

But it all derives from ritual infanticide of first born (usually) male children, together with the parallel ritual sacrifice of first born animals. And this is backed up by some very gruesome archaeology from Phoenicia.[/SIZE]

Notice how you totally ignored my post citing credible, verifiable, historical evidence.

Since you referred to some undefined groups of members posting here as "homophobes," would it be acceptable for some other member to refer to another undefined group as "homos" or "queers?" If not perhaps you should go back and use a less inflammatory term.

What does Phoenicia have to do with anything?

And OBTW I don't seen anyone here claiming that, "The Bible does not condemn infanicide.""The word translated "infanticide" does not mean that.""There was no word for infanticide in Hebrew or Greek." "There was a word for infanticide in Hebrew and Greek but the Bible writers did not use it.", "Infanticide is only prohibited in the context of pagan worship." etc. etc. etc. Does any of that sound familiar.

 

[RMDY]

I once did a study of the word abombination ... about 80% of its uses were in referance to idol worship. So I'd say unless the scriptural context shows otherwise that idol works in involved.

I don't see idol worship involved in homosexual marriages, so I don't see that as abomination to God.

dayhiker

Some of my bibles label that Leviticus passage dealing with same-sex relations as detestable, which has a slightly different meaning than abomination.

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

I'm sorry I thought I did address the entire post, so if you don't mind please let me know what part I missed?

Oh, and ALL CAP yelling doesn't really do much for the asking process, just in case you didn't realize that. I suppose there was some point or whatever that you were trying to make with it, so .

​

Only the first three lines, unless you saying "well I would but you won't listen" is your excuse (even then, you can give me all the Greek definitions you want. It still referred to masculine and masculine only. Women were not mentioned as getting equal treatment in most Greek translations).

 

[MelissaShae]

So because they killed first born male children, which is wrong and a sin, no other sin counts?​

By the way, just because someone calls homosexuality a sin, like the bible does, doesn't make someone homophobic. What do you call someone who calls stealing a sin, like the bible does? Are they a stealophoic?​

In case you didn't know this is a debate, and attacking the people is not suppose to be done. Hope it made you feel better tho.​

a thiefophobe or thiefophobic

 

[dayhiker]

Some of my bibles label that Leviticus passage dealing with same-sex relations as detestable, which has a slightly different meaning than abomination.

I've also heard that the word can be translated taboo.

 

[savedandhappy1]

Only the first three lines, unless you saying "well I would but you won't listen" is your excuse (even then, you can give me all the Greek definitions you want. It still referred to masculine and masculine only. Women were not mentioned as getting equal treatment in most Greek translations).

G81
ἀδελφότης
adelphotēs
ad-el-fot'-ace
From G80; brotherhood (properly the feeling of brotherliness), that is, (the (Christian) fraternity: - brethren, brotherhood.

ἀδελφότης in the New Testament

Definitions

Thayer

1) brotherhood, brotherly kindness
2) a family of brothers, the brotherhood
Part of Speech: noun feminine
Citing in TDNT: 1:144, 22
Strong

G81
From G80; brotherhood (properly the feeling of brotherliness), that is, (the (Christian) fraternity: - brethren, brotherhood.

So the fact that these words are considered a noun feminine, means that they are only referring to males?

Since they are used when speaking of Christian fraternity/fellowship does that mean that woman couldn't be part of the Church back then? Or in other words couldn't receive salvation?

Eve was created to walk beside Adam, not to be under his feet. She was created to be a help mate, not a slave.

I guess we see the Greek definitions differently.

I hope that answers your question.

​

 

[savedandhappy1]

a thiefophobe or thiefophobic

ahhhhhhhhhh, I like yours better.

Would we also have murderphobe or murderphobic?

Let's see, adulterophobic, forniophobic, idolterophobic. liarophobic.

Boy, I'm so phobic I'm getting dizzy. LOL



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