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peepnklown said:Read further into Isaiah 8 and you will see the sign, Immanuel was born.
No it only makes God sound Schizophrenic. Which I do not believe for one moment God to be.arunma said:Clement of Alexandria wrote in The Stromata,I understand nothing else than the Holy Trinity to be meant; for the third is the Holy Spirit, and the Son is the second, by whom all things were made according to the will of the Father.Saint Patrick understood the Trinity as the three leaves that come from one clover. Some modern Christians have also argued that the Trinity is like the three states in which water can exist. The three Persons of the Trinity are distinct in their function, but they are of one mind, one will, and one substance. They are One in a way that no created beings can be. I hope that makes more sense.
I own the Tanakh? Is Isaiah a part of your Christian Old Testament? Actually, if you would read a little further, Isaiah 8:5-10 and then Isaiah 8:18.arunma said:But I've read the Christian Old Testament, and perhaps I'm missing something that can only be found in your "Tanakh." Please give an exposition.
--Right. As a man. And as the Old Testament says, no man is God. So Jesus wasn't God. QED.When Jesus Christ came to the earth, He came as Spirit manifested in flesh
--The Old Testament can't disprove what it doesn't mention anywhere. The Old Testament mentions Jesus nowhere. The parts that Christians misinterpret to be about "Christ" - if read in context - have nothing to do with him.the Old Testament does not disprove the divinity of Jesus Christ
--No, it doesn't. Like so many other places, the anonymous author of the Gospel attributed to Matthew got this wrong. Isaiah 7 refers to a young woman, not a virgin, and she wasn't giving birth to Jesus.Isaiah 7 is a prophecy that does have to with Jesus Christ
Rae said:--Right. As a man. And as the Old Testament says, no man is God. So Jesus wasn't God. QED.
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SwordOfGod said:"In any case, though there are lords many and gods many, to us there is but one God. We worship God our father, the father of Jesus Christ in the flesh... the only God that we serve."
These are contradicting statements, please clarify as I do not see how you believe in only one god and many.
SwordOfGod said:As it appears you have admitted there are many gods, you are still faced with the problem of God Himself stating that there are no other gods.(please see first post... yet again) While I don't completely understand what you mean, I'll take a shot at it and say that you mean there are many gods and you worship the One who created us all. This idea still contradicts the Bible as I pointed out in the last sentence. So now DjDan you are faced with a dilemma that has only two clearly defined answers, either you except that the Bible is the uncontestable word of God and without contradiction, or you believe that the Bible is flawed as Rae pointed out, that in time it has lost its meaning and is no longer infallible, or you accept that the book of Mormon is the correct word of God and the newest attempt by God to keep His Scripture from being corrupted by the hand of man.
SparklnQTPrncess said:As for Mormons being Christians, the foundation of the christian beliefs do not mirror those found in mormonism. Mormon's i'm not a scholar on your beliefs here so go ahead a correct me if I'm wrong, but...
Ezekiel raised 3 people from the dead.SparklnQT said:Actually Jesus didn't come to earth as a "man." Name one man that can heal the blind, rise from the dead, feed a group of men from such a small amount of scraps.
chokmah said:Now that I'm out of Christianity, I wonder who are the "true" Christians:
Orthodox
Catholic
Protestant
Sectarian Groups
Each thinks they have something over the other. Is any one group right?
ladycat said:True Christians are those who have accepted Jesus Christ as Savior and as Lord of their lives. This applies regardless of whether they are Protestant, Orthodox, Catholic, Pentacostal, Coptic, or any other Christian division.
Sadly, most people who "think" they are Christian are not, because they have not made that crucial step of accepting Jesus as Savior.
Conversely, anyone may accept Jesus no matter what their religious background is. Jews, Hindus, Muslims, and many others of non-Christian origins have received the Word and accepted Jesus.
True Christians make up the Body of Christ. That is the true definition of The Church.
SwordOfGod said:"The book of Mormon is no different from the Bible in purpose and authenticity."
Forgive me, but what is the purpose of the book of Mormon(seriously, I don't know)? And as for authenticity, I would actually consider the book and other texts of LDS church, if it weren't for the conflics between the scriptures as I pointed out in earlier posts (see council of the gods and first post about only one God).
SwordOfGod said:"Tell me why God would not speak to people outside of Jerusalem?"
He did, please see all of the scriptures speaking to anyone before the founding of Israel. Further Jesus (who is God, and NOT a man) spoke to a non-jewish woman about the 'living water', saying that nonjews could be saved.
SwordOfGod said:"Show me one scripture that says that the Bible is all of Gods words and that there is no more?"
There are none for the simple fact that God does still speak to people, and yes I have no doubt that His words are still being written down. However, I am referring to books that are being inspired by the Holy Spirit. A common sense criteria for the decision of whether something really is inspired is whether it meshes (absolutely perfectly) with other known inspired works, the scriptures of the LDS church do not fit with the teachings of the Bible as I have pointed out earlier.
--Really? He was a bird or a fish? Funny, your Bible seems to say he was a man. Where are you getting the information that Jesus wasn't a man? Or are you arguing that Jesus was a woman? I guess that'd mean She could qualify as God, but you're going to have to provide some evidence on that point first.Jesus didn't come to earth as a "man."
--Any modern eye doctor with access to a modern hospital can heal the blind, raise people from the dead, and feed many people with one small hospital cafeteria.Name one man that can heal the blind, rise from the dead, feed a group of men from such a small amount of scraps.
--So in other words, he was a man. Got it. There is, of course, nothing approaching objective evidence that Jesus was a God, but I'm willing to concede he was a man for purposes of debate.Christ came in a physical manifestation... in other words he created and inhabited a body
If this is the definition of Christian then Mormons fit the mold, hurray!ladycat said:True Christians are those who have accepted Jesus Christ as Savior and as Lord of their lives.
Hey, remember those verses from the Gospels where Jesus defines Christianity and calls for churches to be erected in his name?ladycat said:True Christians make up the Body of Christ. That is the true definition of The Church.
No, the Tanakh teaches that God is ONE, and doesnt teach that Jesus is God. It really doesnt matter how you mask it, the trinity is 3 Gods, and thus LDSs take on the matter is nothing but their interpretation and doesnt invalidate them as Christians. If different interpretations or revelations invalidate a sect from Christianity then nobody is Christian.SwordOfGod said:The Bible teaches that Christ is God (the Son of God, Him being a person of the trinity, however the LDS church and many of their other scriptures (I did not necessarily mean the book of Mormon) teaches a plurality of Gods (again, book of Abraham).
Christ? When was Jesus anointed? Oh, nevermind; Jesus never defined Christianity thus any definition is up for interpretation and your paragraph is nothing but your interpretation, but it isnt the only. If you would like we could discuss (in another thread) on if Jesus truly wanted people to believe he was God.SwordOfGod said:Christ said that those who believe in Him and why He came (a belief that He was God, the One and Only, manifested in the flesh and that He died for all our sins) would be His body or The Church.
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