Why live at all?

[Asvin]

I realize Christians are not suicidal or careless with life, I was just pointing out why dying would look more attractive to the Christian than the Atheist. For the Atheist this is all you get, might as well make the most of it; for the Christian this is just a trial run, the real party starts after you die.

Ken

Why make the most of it when it includes suffering? Isn't no suffering better than any?

 

[variant]

Not judging my friend.

Well the question isn't really any of your buisness is my point.

We both know my life has value to me because I am alive. I don't pretend there is a threating deity that will be mad at me if I did not continue on.

Just curious why atheists want to suffer?

Often it's suffering people who don't want to be Atheists I think, the desire for our suffering to have some greater eternal meaning is evident in Christian texts and minds but it is quite impossible to delude oneself in such a way if you are aware you are doing it.

I'm guessing we just don't share such a dim view of life, and given my decade of clinical depression that really says something.

I find value in my life because I value everything I do and I work to avoid the general suffering of all and increase the good in this world even if it means personal suffering sometimes. In my moral terms what you do is what you believe so living is a testament to the value of living which is something I believe in.

 

[Ken-1122]

Why make the most of it when it includes suffering? Isn't no suffering better than any?

Speaking only for myself, life has very little suffering in it. When I compare that to the love, joy, accomplishments, relationships, and fun this life has to offer every day! It's worth it.

Ken

PS Does this surprise you?

 

[Golden Yak]

"Why should I bother to eat this delicious ice cream? It's only going to be gone at some point in the future!"

Life sometimes has suffering, but it has good things as well. Ending it precludes experiencing both. You have to judge whether it's worth it or not.

 

[quatona]

Do you not want to avoid suffering?

Not really. Rather, I want to increase well-being - mine and that of others.

Avoid any instance of pain or sorrow?

Actually, oftentimes I find myself choosing occupations that I know will come with some pain or sorrow. So no.

Why then would you not choose non-existence?

I had and will have non-existence for billions of years. Now, non-existence isn´t a state to be in, to begin with...but that´s another question.

I continue living because God has made me for a reason. He has given me a goal in life and I realize what that goal is.

Yes, I am aware that this is why some people believe in a god: it´s necessary for them to find life meaningful. Just be careful not to project.

 

[quatona]

Just curious why atheists want to suffer?

That´s a very odd way of putting it. It´s more like suffering being a tolerable by-product of that which I want.

 

[quatona]

Isn't no suffering better than any?

Not to me, obviously.

 

[Charbel7]

Disclaimer: I am not promoting/condoning suicide. This is just a conceptual question and I DO NOT mean to suggest any one end their life.

This question is towards atheists and other non-monotheists, including pantheists. Why should you live at all? If you are going to die in the future, why live at all? Is it not better to end any instance of suffering?

Well let me ask you the same question? I don't really know why should i live.
I'm living because i'm scared of killing my self and going to hell, Again i'm not sure if it exists or not but why risking my self?

Also maybe things will change in the future? Maybe my religious views would change? Maybe i'd be a better person.

Who knows..

 

[poolerboy0077]

Not judging my friend. Just curious why atheists want to suffer?

That's a pretty loaded question. People clearly don't want to suffer but wanting to survive pain and discomfort is not a desire to suffer. It's a desire to overcome it with the hopes of safeguarding future well-being and joy. Clearly not everyone has the same experiences and there are instances in which death becomes a mercy. I can certainly think of instances in which I would likely choose to die and I really doubt these are any different than the reasons many Christians have chosen to die.

Why make the most of it when it includes suffering? Isn't no suffering better than any?

Um, no? This is probably a crude example, but some of the best sex I've had involved some level of pain. That's not to say we're all masochists, but not all suffering is created equal. I suffered when my grandfather died. That doesn't stop me from wanting to live because I treasure many other things: the rest of my family that is alive, friends, sex, learning, eating, traveling, even just the fact that I'm having subjective experiences. But as I said above, all these can be overridden by particular circumstances in which the negatives outweigh the positives.

Let me ask you a question in return. How rigid or flexible are you in the belief that suicide is wrong because God would frown upon it? For instance, if you were jailed and about to be burned at the stake, would you not try to commit suicide to prevent needless excruciating agony? Do you honestly believe God would frown more upon your choice to commit suicide over the needless suffering you'd endure simply because an arbitrary rule was violated?

 

[Paradoxum]

Please refer to my previous replies. Thanks!

You don't say anything worthwhile in your other replies that you didn't say before. It would have been nice if you has replied to what I said.

People don't just avoid suffering, but they positively values things in life too. You completely ignore positive values.

People have positive values... you understand that, right?

All that's dandy and good but when you have the choice of choosing to end this life, why carry on? Especially when you know there will be at least one moment of suffering in the future? Why prefer that suffering over non-existence? Why prefer the ailments of diabetes or cancer when you don't HAVE to face it?

People don't generally prefer suffering over non-existence. Most peoples lives consist of good and bad things, so it's totally false to say that people prefer suffering over non-existence. People prefer suffering, and the things they value, over non-existence. So the point would be that they deem the good to outweigh the bad.

For me (and many people I suspect) living itself has great value, so there must be great suffering to overcome that.

I don't have great suffering, so I want to live.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Is it not better to end any instance of suffering?

But I'm not suffering. I'm having a good time.

But yes, if existence ever becomes unbearable suffering, I would look into euthanasia.

ETA:

So you're feeling unimportant
'Cuz you've got nothing to say
And your life is just a ramble
No one understands you anyway

Well I've got a piece of news son
That might make you change your mind
Your life is historically meaningful
And spans a significant time

Slumber will come soon
And you are helping put it to sleep
Side by side we do our share faithfully
Assuring that slumber will come soon

Well now do you feel a little better?
Lift up your head and walk away
Knowing we're all in this together
For such a short time anyway

There is just no time to parade around sulking
I would rather laugh than cry
The rich, the poor, the strong, the weak
We share this place together
And we pitch in to help it die, we pitch in to help it die

I'm not too good at giving morals
And I don't fear the consequence
If life makes you scared and bitter
At least its not for very long

Slumber will come soon
And you are helping put it to sleep
Side by side we do our share faithfully
Assuring that slumber will come soon

Slumber will come soon
Slumber will come soon
Slumber will come soon

Bad Religion - "Slumber"

 

[Asvin]

Looks like you all have the secret to the perfect life. I don't think you understand what non-existence truly means. Lacking ANY experience should be preferred to experiencing at least one moment of genuine suffering. Why get shot in the leg when you have the option to avoid it? The hope for a future good is only favorable if, at the end of life, you have something to do with it. For the Christian, God will use our actions, good and bad, for the benefit of others and ourselves. However, if it all ends at the grave, then why bother? Afraid of death perhaps?

 

[Asvin]

Not to me, obviously.

So you would love the experience of getting shot in the leg?

 

[Hetta]

Looks like you all have the secret to the perfect life. I don't think you understand what non-existence truly means. Lacking ANY experience should be preferred to experiencing at least one moment of genuine suffering. Why get shot in the leg when you have the option to avoid it? The hope for a future good is only favorable if, at the end of life, you have something to do with it. For the Christian, God will use our actions, good and bad, for the benefit of others and ourselves. However, if it all ends at the grave, then why bother? Afraid of death perhaps?

I am stunned by your attitude here. People have taken your question seriously and given you serious, thoughtful responses, but you continue to goad them. They have told you that they are glad to be alive, enjoy being alive and are not in a rush to not be alive. What more do you need?

 

[Hetta]

So you would love the experience of getting shot in the leg?

You seem a little obsessed by the prospect of people getting shot in the leg. A person who is shot in the leg can still lead a happy life.

 

[Chany]

Life's like going to the movies. Sometimes you get the 5-star masterpiece moments, sometimes you get a so-so film that isn't that good but not bad enough to leave, and sometimes you get Batman and Robin.

 

[Asvin]

I am stunned by your attitude here. People have taken your question seriously and given you serious, thoughtful responses, but you continue to goad them. They have told you that they are glad to be alive, enjoy being alive and are not in a rush to not be alive. What more do you need?

I am trying to show them that life is meaningless if God does not exist. If I stunned you by my "attitude" then I apologize. I don't understand what part of my reply came across as having an attitude to you. I was just stating my beliefs. I have the freedom to do that!

 

[Asvin]

You seem a little obsessed by the prospect of people getting shot in the leg. A person who is shot in the leg can still lead a happy life.

And you seem like a hater.

 

[Chany]

I am trying to show them that life is meaningless if God does not exist. If I stunned you by my "attitude" then I apologize. I don't understand what part of my reply came across as having an attitude to you. I was just stating my beliefs. I have the freedom to do that!

That's a fallacy on many levels. You assume that:

1) God's existence creates meaning.

2) God's nonexistence eliminates meaning.

On one, why does having God create meaning? Because God says so?

On two, why can't we look elsewhere for meaning? Why is eternal life dependent upon a deity existing?

Also, if you want to challenge people's views, fine. But I'll challenge yours in return.

Prove the existence of God.

 

[Hetta]

And you seem like a hater.

ROFLOL.

Anyone who questions you is a 'hater' apparently.