Why Jehovah? Why not Allah or Krishna?

Milla · May 11, 2005

It's funny; I'm by no means a Muslim but I often find myself defending Islam on this forum. I just really abhor misinformation and it seems like there is a lot of extreme misinformation about Islam, around here especially. If one wants to defend Christianity it must be done with truths, not bias, conjecture, word-of-mouth and outright fabrication. Ultimately, when people repeat misinformation (or deliberate untruths) as fact, they only weaken their own cases. Spreading misinformation about Islam makes Christians look underinformed, gullible, or worse. So in a way by defending Islam from slander I am also defending my own religion, I think.

S Walch · May 11, 2005

A Muslim turned Christian would disagree with you on that Milla.

http://www.erguncaner.com/Press Articles/DirtyLittleSecret.pdf

Milla · May 11, 2005

S Walch said:
A Muslim turned Christian would disagree with you on that Milla.

http://www.erguncaner.com/Press%20Articles/DirtyLittleSecret.pdf

I can't download PDFs. Please distill?

Christian_Victor · May 11, 2005

S Walch said:
A Muslim turned Christian would disagree with you on that Milla.

http://www.erguncaner.com/Press%20Articles/DirtyLittleSecret.pdf

Obviously he was an American Muslim (or some other type of nationality), not Arabic Muslim.

If he was Arabic, he would know "Allah" means God in Arabic.

Or, this guy might be saying that people think Allah and God are the same. Now, when it comes to LANGUAGE views, they ARE the same. But, when it comes to RELIGIOUS views, they are different. My guess is that this guy was speaking in RELIGIOUS terms.

I know Allah means God in Arabic. I've had an Arabic substitute, and I've asked him "how do you say God in Arabic?"

He wrote something and say it's pronounce "Allah".

I'll take it from the Native Arabic speaker.

S Walch · May 11, 2005

I have hosted it on my webspace for the moment being in MS word format - hope you're able to read it all now

A Vestigal Hatred

Obviously he was an American Muslim (or some other type of nationality), not Arabic Muslim.

If he was Arabic, he would know "Allah" means God in Arabic.

Or, this guy might be saying that people think Allah and God are the same. Now, when it comes to LANGUAGE views, they ARE the same. But, when it comes to RELIGIOUS views, they are different. My guess is that this guy was speaking in RELIGIOUS terms.

I know Allah means God in Arabic. I've had an Arabic substitute, and I've asked him "how do you say God in Arabic?"

He wrote something and say it's pronounce "Allah".

I'll take it from the Native Arabic speaker.

....He came from Turkey with his father, mother and brothers to the US and his main language was Arabic.

I *think* he knows what he's talking about.

Christian_Victor · May 11, 2005

S Walch said:
I have hosted it on my webspace for the moment being in MS word format - hope you're able to read it all now

A Vestigal Hatred

....He came from Turkey with his father, mother and brothers to the US and his main language was Arabic.

I *think* he knows what he's talking about.

Christian_Victor said:
Or, this guy could be saying that people think Allah and God are the same. Now, when it comes to LANGUAGE views, they ARE the same. But, when it comes to RELIGIOUS views, they are different. My guess is that this guy was speaking in RELIGIOUS terms.

Then read that reason.

Milla · May 11, 2005

Thanks for converting it to a .doc. I guess the whole "I don't know a single person who..." argument (used in the article) just doesn't do it for me; I personally do know several Muslim bilingues who use the terms "Allah" and "God" interchangably, just as I use "Bog" and "God" interchangably; personal anecdotes mean little in a debate, as one can always counter them without providing any actual evidence.

Christian_Victor · May 11, 2005

Milla said:
Thanks for converting it to a .doc. I guess the whole "I don't know a single person who..." argument (used in the article) just doesn't do it for me; I personally do know several Muslim bilingues who use the terms "Allah" and "God" interchangably, just as I use "Bog" and "God" interchangably; personal anecdotes mean little in a debate, as one can always counter them without providing any actual evidence.

Ya, and the same is for us all. We use "Him" or "He" sometimes instead of "God", don't we? That doesn't mean that Him or He is a false god or anything. It just means that we are refering to God.

Milla · May 11, 2005

Christian_Victor said:
Or, this guy might be saying that people think Allah and God are the same. Now, when it comes to LANGUAGE views, they ARE the same. But, when it comes to RELIGIOUS views, they are different. My guess is that this guy was speaking in RELIGIOUS terms.

Indeed. There's basically no wiggle-room on whether linguistically "Allah" and "God" have the same weight; they do. Religiously, one's milage may vary...to my mind, the God of the Koran seems to have an awful lot in common with the God of the Old Testament; which is to be expected, considering that Judaism, Christianity and Islam are shoots of the same plant. Personally, it's my belief that most Muslims are praying to the same God I am; out theologies may be quite different, but then again, the gulf between Pentecostals, for example, and Catholics, is quite wide, but I don't consider that they are worshipping a false god, just that the way they're coming to God is different (and, in several ways, incorrect, of course ), but that doesn't mean it's, like, moon worship or some such nonsense.

Christian_Victor · May 11, 2005

Milla said:
Indeed. There's basically no wiggle-room on whether linguistically "Allah" and "God" have the same weight; they do. Religiously, one's milage may vary...to my mind, the God of the Koran seems to have an awful lot in common with the God of the Old Testament; which is to be expected, considering that Judaism, Christianity and Islam are shoots of the same plant. Personally, it's my belief that most Muslims are praying to the same God I am; out theologies may be quite different, but then again, the gulf between Pentecostals, for example, and Catholics, is quite wide, but I don't consider that they are worshipping a false god, just that the way they're coming to God is different (and, in several ways, incorrect, of course ), but that doesn't mean it's, like, moon worship or some such nonsense.

True that. Very true. I agree 100%.

Radagast · May 12, 2005

Milla said:
... I just really abhor misinformation and it seems like there is a lot of extreme misinformation about Islam, around here especially...

I think you have to say that Christians and Muslims and Jews worship the same God -- the God of Abraham.

But Christians and Muslims and Jews have different ideas about God and about how to worship Him.

-- Radagast

LittleLion · May 12, 2005

Radagast said:
I think you have to say that Christians and Muslims and Jews worship the same God -- the God of Abraham.

But Christians and Muslims and Jews have different ideas about God and about how to worship Him.

Yes. It should be really simple: God came first, religions came later.
God is immutable, religions interpret Him differently.
This is why one should be wary of putting one's trust into religion -- as opposed to putting it in God.

zak777 · May 12, 2005

LittleLion said:
Yes. It should be really simple: God came first, religions came later.
God is immutable, religions interpret Him differently.
This is why one should be wary of putting one's trust into religion -- as opposed to putting it in God.

Religion is not important. The important thing is do you have faith that Jesus died for your sins? Jesus is God, and by having faith in Him, you have a personal relationship with Him and He will send the Spirit of God to live within you and purify you in the eyes of God. When this happens, God's sees His perfect Spirit within you and therefore sees you as perfection as well, which means you can be one with Him forever. It's not that God simply won't let sin be one with Him, it is that because He is perfect He CAN'T, so He makes us right with Him through Christ's blood and the sending of His Spirit because of that. Other religions may have other ways of worship, and different rituals and so on, but the only way to be right with God is to be cleansed by Him and the only way to do that is by faith in Christ.

LittleLion · May 12, 2005

zak777,

Religion is not important. The important thing is do you have faith that Jesus died for your sins?

You contradict yourself. Jesus is considered God ONLY in Christianity, and believing in Jesus to be God is opting for Christianity -- and this is opting for a certain religion. Thus, you say that religion is important.

Jesus is God, and by having faith in Him, you have a personal relationship with Him and He will send the Spirit of God to live within you and purify you in the eyes of God. When this happens, God's sees His perfect Spirit within you and therefore sees you as perfection as well, which means you can be one with Him forever. It's not that God simply won't let sin be one with Him, it is that because He is perfect He CAN'T, so He makes us right with Him through Christ's blood and the sending of His Spirit because of that. Other religions may have other ways of worship, and different rituals and so on, but the only way to be right with God is to be cleansed by Him and the only way to do that is by faith in Christ.

This is only true if Christianity is the right religion.

Oh, and be careful when you use "can't" when it comes to God.

Radagast · May 13, 2005

LittleLion said:
Yes. It should be really simple: God came first, religions came later.
God is immutable, religions interpret Him differently.

True -- but only Christianity, Judaism, and Islam believe in God (as opposed to "gods").

Once you believe in God, the question becomes: "how has He revealed himself?"

-- Radagast

LittleLion · May 13, 2005

Radagast,

True -- but only Christianity, Judaism, and Islam believe in God (as opposed to "gods").

Once you believe in God, the question becomes: "how has He revealed himself?"

I do believe in God. I do not know what attributes God has. Is He a revealing God, or does He not interfere with His creation at all? What does this God do, besides that He created the universe? What does He want? Does God answer questions? ...

I think that I have always had a distinct feeling (for the lack of a better word, albeit "feeling" doesn't convey properly what I mean) that God exists. I have also had a distinct realization that I don't know what God's attributes are.

Milla · May 13, 2005

Radagast said:
True -- but only Christianity, Judaism, and Islam believe in God (as opposed to "gods").

Not exactly. To name a few others:

Deism is a form of monotheism in which it is believed that one god exists. However, a deist rejects the idea that this god intervenes in the world.

Substance monotheism, found e.g. in some indigenous African religions, holds that the many gods are different forms of a single underlying substance, and that this underlying substance is God. This view has some similarities to the Christian trinitarian view of three persons sharing one nature.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotheism

Zoroastrianism or Zártosht (Persian: ﺖﺸﺗﺭﺯ) Is known as one of the worlds oldest monotheistic religions. It once was the official religion of Sassanid Persia and played an important role in Achaemenid times.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism

SolomonVII · May 13, 2005

LittleLion said:
Why Jehovah? Why not Allah or Krishna?

Which God is the right one? Which religion to join? Which religious doctrine to practice?

There is only one God. The question is which doctrine is free from error, and contains the fullest measure of the truth?

Which doctrine, which scripture is capable of saving this trouble world from its fallen state?
It is not jsut a queston of personal salvation. It is also a question of the salvation of creation. And it is a question that requires discernment on behalf of the seeker.

If the question is why is the world in the (fallen) state that it is, and the answer in the main center on man's inhumanity to man, and his placing of his own desires above the welfare of his neighbour, as a matter of discernment, the Cross most explicity gives this theme the central, defining role that it deserves.

Radagast · May 16, 2005

LittleLion said:
I do believe in God. I do not know what attributes God has. Is He a revealing God, or does He not interfere with His creation at all? What does this God do, besides that He created the universe? What does He want? Does God answer questions? ...

Those are all good points for discussion.

-- Radagast

1GODALONE · May 16, 2005

Truly. If it all comes down, my religion is wrong, and I go to hell for not believing in Muhammed. I would rather be in Hell for believing and following the ways of Jesus Christ, than be in Heaven for believing in anything else.

Why Jehovah? Why not Allah or Krishna?

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