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My first major presentation is to a large body of physicists the UK courtesy of a young genius who I met here. He says my model has profound implications for quantum gauge theory. We'll see what his colleagues think.
Wish me luck!
My first major presentation is to a large body of physicists the UK courtesy of a young genius who I met here. He says my model has profound implications for quantum gauge theory. We'll see what his colleagues think.
Yes that is why the bible says that we all know about God and His invisible attributes are seen in all His creation so that no one is without excuse. When I look at the birds in the sky I see God. When I see a new born baby I see God and when I look at the moon and stars I see God.
God the creator is separate from His creation. God was there before time began so He is not subject to time and space and the creation of matter.
Yes that is something to do with the multi universe model. Like bubbles in a steam bath they keep on forming. It has that science fiction air about it. Even so it still needs a beginning and something before that first bang to start it off.
Well we know from the naturalistic method of measuring things which is used for everything else in our existence including the universe that for every effect there has to be a cause. According to the laws of thermodynamics there had to be a beginning in the universe. The total amount of mass-energy in the universe is constant. The amount of energy available for work is running out. So if total mass energy is limited and the amount of usable energy is decreasing then the universe cannot have existed forever, otherwise it would already have exhausted all usable energy. So the universe began a long time ago with a lot of usable energy, and is now running down. If the beginning of the universe started space and matter then it also started time as relativity tells us that time, space and matter are all linked. So what was before the universe started if there was no time, space and matter.
As I said before God is separate from His creation. The universe had a beginning and has time and space and matter. God did not have a beginning as He was the creator of time and has always been there.
I cant remember what I was referring to then. But God is all things and in all thing as the bible says. So if He created the quantum world then His qualities are in the quantum world but not limited to the quantum world. If the quantum world make the material world or the physical world then He is also in the physical world. But the material world may just be a manifestation of the quantum world. It maybe that its something to do with the quantum world which is what goes on when we die and the physical world is no more.
I have already answered this.
It is not an argument from ignorance as I have already explained this. God has always been there as He created time, space and matter. Because the universe had a beginning it has a cause. Because God didn't have a beginning He does not have a cause and was always there.
You keep saying this but I cant remember saying in the sense you are indicating like God is a physical being. He created physical things but He isn't physical Himself. The only time God became physical is when He sent His Son Jesus to save us. You will have to link what I said so I can see the context.
God didn't have a beginning unlike the universe. God created the universe. The universe had a beginning so therefore has a cause. According to the law of relativity time and space are connected, So when God created the space and matter of the universe He also created time. Because God created time He is not subject to time as He made it. Time started with the creation of the universe. Thats why it is running down. But God is everywhere and in all things. That doesn't mean is is a physical being or is restricted to the physical dimension. The physical/material dimension maybe the end result of an invisble world. The material world will pass away and the spiritual world will go on.
OK so what I have understood this is to do with experiments like with the Large Hadron Collider. This is to do with the higgs field and how particles gain some matter going through this field like moving through treacle. It is also associated with particle that are suppose to pop in and out of existence. There are all these different particles that they have discovered like quarks which are the smallest they know of. There maybe more but I think they are pretty close to nothing.
I did answer that before. I thought it was a silly question. Because it cannot be answered. To be able to answer this question then science would have to be able to go into another dimension and find out for sure. As we know with indirect evidence this can be misleading. When scientist say that have discovered something in this area it is soon disputed and shown to be wrong and this has been the same for many years. Its not like we can go into a lab and test this and verify it. So its like me saying when you see heaven will you believe there is an after life.
I find your lack of sincerity, disturbing.
You keep saying that and I keep saying that God is separate from His creation. We are talking about the creation of time and space and matter. Before that there was no time, space or matter to go by. God started all that.
No we dont really know. Of course I will say God. But whatever there was had to be something of greatness as it had to always be there.
I have already explained this. But surely you have heard or read anyone who has attempted to explain what was before existence began when it comes to God. They always say He was always there. This is a common statement. What I have said about God being apart form His creation and time and space is a common idea. God creating time, space and matter is a common idea as well. So it isn't an assertion of mine it is a common one from those who try to explain Gods role in creation and that He was always there.
Well this is a common idea so I will post some links that will explain it better.
I have included the answer to this in the links attached above.
Included above
Well they havnt established this yet but there can't be to much more. Its like they have kept going down and down and down to a smaller and smaller existence and now they are closer than ever before at the point of nothing. When scientists got the first results from the large hadron collider even though they were excited about finding the Higgs boson they were a little disappointed as they thought there would be more. But the higgs field is suppose to make tiny particles that are almost nothing take on some mass like there going through this treacle. Virtual particles are suppose to pop in and out of existence. Thats why they are seeing this crazy world because its looking at how our material world starts before we even see it.
No I said if they can prove that all of existence happened by a naturalistic method for sure and was testable I would have to question my belief. This is a hypothetical question you are asking me. So I am answering it in the hypothetical. My qualification is about the reality as it stands now which is probably a very, very, very ,very long way from that. In fact I cant see how they can do it. But hypothetically if they can then I hypothetically will question my belief that God did it and that would probably lead me to hypothetically question there even being a God.
Look I dont know all these things and neither do you. We can only try to understand. But it is said that God was separate from His creation as in making it. You are taking what I have said and turning it into something else. We are talking about the event of creation and not about God now and how and when He can interact with His creation. If God is all things and in everything then He is able to be both at the same time and also experience being separate from both these things at the same time. I dont fully understand this and nobody does. Its beyond our comprehension. But thats the same as trying to understand how something can always be there or how quantum entanglement can cause two particles to act as though they are connected and respond instantaneously with each other even if they are on opposite sides of the universe.
I already have twice now. If time was created with the universe then there was no time before that. Scientists have even said this.
Ok but I am only going by what the bible says about God and how something could exist before time and space that could make a universe. It is sort of self supporting. If the universe had a cause the what caused it. The universe is something that is amazing. It is complex and well look at it. It then made life. It is finely tuned for life. If there was no time and space before it began and yet time and space and matter began when it did then something also caused time and space to come into existence. It doesn't have to be God but it certainly has to be something that can make all these things. That something has to be greater than what it made. It just all speaks of design and that something created it. It could have come from a naturalistic self creating cause.
Thats correct but I was responding to when you said it was a bare assertion when I said that God was always there. I said it was a common thing that people say that God is always there and here is everywhere. This is in the bible so its not my assertion and is a common thing people say even if they dont believe in God. Because that is how people see God. He is classed as supernatural isn't he. But if you want me to prove that well thats a different thing. We are then going back to square 1 about whether God is true and may as well end the conversation now. Otherwise ewe are just talking about a hypothesis with hasn't been proven but as I said may have some indirect evidence.
Because scientist say it wasn't and that was the big bang, (the singularity). Even Stephen Hawkins says this. So this is when everything started, time, space and matter.
Ok well I was only referring because you said It was a bare assertion and needed to justify what I said. I think we are starting to go in circles now.
What state, there was nothing to have any state with, no time, no space nothing to make any state. This is where scientists say they dont know and people like Lawrence Krause start to say nothing is really something but cant tell you what that is. They say its nothing but then begin to describe something. But when someone says but you are describing something they say its not really something because its a sort of special nothing.
Well this is where i say God comes in because He was always there as the bible says. He was there before time and whatever state He was in He was there and was able to create everything and start it going. Something had to always be there and it had to have the ability to start time, space and matter.
I'm getting a sense of deja vu here. No because this is the point they are getting close to nothing but not quite nothing. There will always be something in our realm whether it be our reality or the quantum world. But at some point there had to be nothing as even the tiny little particles down in the quantum world had to come from somewhere and have a beginning. This is why quantum physics is relating back to the beginning of the universe and scientists are using it to say that nothing is really something. Just like the majority of the universe which is black empty space which looks like nothing but ha something in it still at the quantum level. But before the big bang there wasn't even this as time, space and matter began. This is why they are doing the experiments with the large hadron collider. They are trying to see how something can come from nothing.
The same hypothetical question you asked me. If they do find that there must have been a creator for the universe and existence would you then believe that there was a God or a supernatural creator.
That's an important question to consider, given that the God you posit is separate from his creation, yet able to interact with it.
If I'm not allowed to do that, then neither are you. On the one hand, you appeal to our intuitive understanding of causality as evidence that the universe must have a cause, yet on the other you demand special exceptions from that understanding so as to accommodate theological doctrine.
No, not necessarily. Some physicists have posited oscillating universe models, which combine the Big Bang and the Big Crunch in a cycle of expansion and contraction.
If time began at the Big Bang, then the universe has always existed, in that there is no time in which the universe has not existed.
Consider this passage a bit more critically. It is describing a time before time began.
We don't know. Scientists are trying to figure it out. One thing that annoys me, however, is when apologists dismiss every naturalistic hypothesis out of hand simply because it does not meet the highest epistemic standards, only to assert that Goddidit wins by default, even though their justification for this claim barely rises to the lowest epistemic standards.
If it is when time began, then strictly speaking, there was no time in which the universe did not exist. It has existed for all time.
What state? A timeless, spaceless state of the universe. Obviously very different to the current state of the universe.
Perhaps that's because a pure philosophical nothingness is not a real state of affairs. Perhaps it's not even a physically possible state of affairs. It may be the case that we have taken the concept 'nothing,' which enjoys widespread applicability in everyday life, and turned it into a Platonic ideal with no applicability to anything whatsoever.This is where scientists say they dont know and people like Lawrence Krause start to say nothing is really something but cant tell you what that is. They say its nothing but then begin to describe something. But when someone says but you are describing something they say its not really something because its a sort of special nothing.
If God existed before time (or without time) then wasn't God in a timeless, changeless state? If God is a mind, as many theists claim, then wouldn't he be trapped in a timeless thought? How then would he able to decide to create; unless the decision to create is the only thought he is capable of? But if that is the case, then the existence of the universe is necessary and inevitable, in that God could not have decided otherwise.
But not the philosophical nothing you are describing. That's an important difference.
I answered this question in a previous thread.
Look I dont know all these things and neither do you. We can only try to understand. But it is said that God was separate from His creation as in making it. You are taking what I have said and turning it into something else. We are talking about the event of creation and not about God now and how and when He can interact with His creation. If God is all things and in everything then He is able to be both at the same time and also experience being separate from both these things at the same time. I dont fully understand this and nobody does. Its beyond our comprehension. But thats the same as trying to understand how something can always be there or how quantum entanglement can cause two particles to act as though they are connected and respond instantaneously with each other even if they are on opposite sides of the universe.
But you keep saying God cant do this or that according to how you understand with the cause and effect laws that we know of in our reality. You are applying that thinking to something that doesn't even have this in the first place.
I already have twice now. If time was created with the universe then there was no time before that. Scientists have even said this.
So therefore since the universe had a beginning it must have had a cause. If there was no time and space before the universe then there could be anything before it that was measurable as far as time and space. The bible says that God was there before time.
Since events before the Big Bang have no observational consequences, one may as well cut them out of the theory, and say that time began at the Big Bang.
The Beginning of Time - Stephen Hawking
No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. (1 Corinthians 2:7)
Ok but I am only going by what the bible says about God and how something could exist before time and space that could make a universe. It is sort of self supporting. If the universe had a cause the what caused it. The universe is something that is amazing. It is complex and well look at it. It then made life. It is finely tuned for life. If there was no time and space before it began and yet time and space and matter began when it did then something also caused time and space to come into existence. It doesn't have to be God but it certainly has to be something that can make all these things. That something has to be greater than what it made. It just all speaks of design and that something created it. It could have come from a naturalistic self creating cause.
Thats correct but I was responding to when you said it was a bare assertion when I said that God was always there. I said it was a common thing that people say that God is always there and here is everywhere. This is in the bible so its not my assertion and is a common thing people say even if they dont believe in God. Because that is how people see God. He is classed as supernatural isn't he. But if you want me to prove that well thats a different thing. We are then going back to square 1 about whether God is true and may as well end the conversation now. Otherwise ewe are just talking about a hypothesis with hasn't been proven but as I said may have some indirect evidence.
Because scientist say it wasn't and that was the big bang, (the singularity). Even Stephen Hawkins says this. So this is when everything started, time, space and matter.
Ok well I was only referring because you said It was a bare assertion and needed to justify what I said. I think we are starting to go in circles now.
What state, there was nothing to have any state with, no time, no space nothing to make any state. This is where scientists say they dont know and people like Lawrence Krause start to say nothing is really something but cant tell you what that is. They say its nothing but then begin to describe something. But when someone says but you are describing something they say its not really something because its a sort of special nothing.
Well this is where i say God comes in because He was always there as the bible says. He was there before time and whatever state He was in He was there and was able to create everything and start it going. Something had to always be there and it had to have the ability to start time, space and matter.
I'm getting a sense of deja vu here. No because this is the point they are getting close to nothing but not quite nothing. There will always be something in our realm whether it be our reality or the quantum world. But at some point there had to be nothing as even the tiny little particles down in the quantum world had to come from somewhere and have a beginning. This is why quantum physics is relating back to the beginning of the universe and scientists are using it to say that nothing is really something. Just like the majority of the universe which is black empty space which looks like nothing but ha something in it still at the quantum level. But before the big bang there wasn't even this as time, space and matter began. This is why they are doing the experiments with the large hadron collider. They are trying to see how something can come from nothing.
The same hypothetical question you asked me. If they do find that there must have been a creator for the universe and existence would you then believe that there was a God or a supernatural creator.
