Why is there hatred of St. Paul?

[Not David]

It has been present since old times since he had to defend his apostleship and keeps coming not only from Jews, Muslims, and atheists but even from people who called themselves Christians. I don't think any of the Apostles is as controversial as him.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

It has been present since old times since he had to defend his apostleship and keeps coming not only from Jews, Muslims, and atheists but even from people who called themselves Christians. I don't think any of the Apostles is as controversial as him.

People like their lists, they like to be in control of their lives, and to make plans ... Grace kind of puts a monkey wrench in that.

 

[Not David]

People like their lists, they like to be in control of their lives, and to make plans ... Grace kind of puts a monkey wrench in that.

What do you mean by Grace?

 

[redleghunter]

It has been present since old times since he had to defend his apostleship and keeps coming not only from Jews, Muslims, and atheists but even from people who called themselves Christians. I don't think any of the Apostles is as controversial as him.

I’ve often had to defend the Apostolic mission of St Paul on numerous occasions here on CF until they put a new rule in place.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

What do you mean by Grace?

Grace not only replaced the function of "law" it replaced resembling elements of every day life. It's part of the quality of life of someone who is born again, and participating in the divine nature.

People who are born into the religion, like rules because they can be accepted based on rules, but Grace is like chaos to them, so they don't like it.

 

[Not David]

I’ve often had to defend the Apostolic mission of St Paul on numerous occasions here on CF until they put a new rule in place.

When was that rule implemented?

 

[Not David]

Grace not only replaced the function of "law" it replaced resembling elements of every day life. It's part of the quality of life of someone who is born again, and participating in the divine nature.

People who are born into the religion, like rules because they can be accepted based on rules, but Grace is like chaos to them, so they don't like it.

Interesting, I feel the opposite. That St. Paul has old rules that contrast with a "care-free Jesus" and that stuff.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Interesting, I feel the opposite. That St. Paul has old rules that contrast with a "care-free Jesus" and that stuff.

It depends on how you view scriptures that were written in the second century and such.

 

[Not David]

It depends on how you view scriptures that were written in the second century and such.

Do you believe some of his books didn't come from him?

 

[redleghunter]

When was that rule implemented?

About 18 months ago. I think you can find it either in the General theology statement of purpose or the Controversial Christian a Theology statement of purpose.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Do you believe some of his books didn't come from him?

Sometimes the thought crosses my mind, it's a disputed topic among people who know more than I do, so I just apply what gets the best fruit then leave the rest aside chalking it up to my lack of maturity.

 

[charsan]

It has been present since old times since he had to defend his apostleship and keeps coming not only from Jews, Muslims, and atheists but even from people who called themselves Christians. I don't think any of the Apostles is as controversial as him.

Because people want to do their own thing and go their own way. As an example of people wanting to do their own thing is the split in 1054 and the Reformation

 

[civilwarbuff]

Interesting, I feel the opposite. That St. Paul has old rules that contrast with a "care-free Jesus" and that stuff.

Could you explain 'care-free Jesus? I am not sure I follow that....

 

[redleghunter]

It depends on how you view scriptures that were written in the second century and such.

I’m not familiar with any Christian theologians who put any of Paul’s epistles in the second century. None of the early patristic writings give us this understanding.

 

[Not David]

About 18 months ago. I think you can find it either in the General theology statement of purpose or the Controversial Christian a Theology statement of purpose.

I know of that rule, what I didn't know was that it was a new one.

 

[redleghunter]

Sometimes the thought crosses my mind, it's a disputed topic among people who know more than I do, so I just apply what gets the best fruit then leave the rest aside chalking it up to my lack of maturity.

It’s a disputed topic over questionable skeptics.

 

[Not David]

Could you explain 'care-free Jesus? I am not sure I follow that....

That the Lord Jesus came to abolish obedience and promote love.

 

[rockytopva]

I wish Luke would have given a fuller account of the salvation of St Paul. From the time he left Jerusalem to the time he returned to Jerusalem. I would have loved to have read of his early sermons.

 

[dzheremi]

As St. Paul wrote much of the material that would go on to form the standard NT canon, the reasons for the dislike of the apostle among non-Christians should be obvious, as they disagree with our religion and think it to be false.

And among Christians, too, I think it is also obvious, although a bit different: St. Paul said many things in his epistles which seem to rub certain Christian people or traditions in the wrong way. I remember sitting in on some RCIA classes back when I was Roman Catholic and the women who taught it (in consultation with the priest, but he rarely showed up himself; when he did, they were silent) got to the portion of St. Paul's epistle to the Corinthians when the apostle writes that women should keep silent in the churches. Obviously, the RCC in our day has not really kept to this rule (depending on how it is interpreted, of course), as women may do the readings and serve as Extraordinary Ministers of the Eucharist in many parishes, and I think one of the women realized that the students would notice this and just sort of quickly laughed it off and said "Heh...you know, that Paul had a lot of strong opinions, and maybe some trouble with women..."

I remember being shocked and not sure how to respond, because of course these women were in charge of teaching the acolytes, so I didn't want to start a scene or anything. So I just thought "Well, that's her way of dealing with that verse" (which it was) and moved on as she did. Still, looking back on it...I dunno...

But I think the sort of sentiment that she voiced is a common enough one among many Christians who would like to see themselves and therefore their religion as more egalitarian than a bare reading of that verse or certain other verses would suggest. So of course since those verses come from St. Paul's epistles, they are attributed to his thinking (read: his misogyny), and he is degraded in their minds as a result. It's sad, but I think that's what I saw at work, and have seen at work since then among Christians who are more 'cutting-edge' and progressive than I apparently am. (And I don't even see that followed as literally in my Church as in maybe some other churches, particularly Protestant ones that might read everything incredibly literally; priest's wives, nuns, and so on have given talks in our churches with the blessings of the clergy -- they just don't play a clerical role of any kind in the liturgy outside of their place as laywomen unless they're abbesses or deaconesses at a monastery, in the same way that me being a man doesn't entitle me to give the deacon's responses or something, since I'm a layman. I dunno.)

 

[redleghunter]

Because people want to do their own thing and go their own way. As an example of people wanting to do their own thing is the split in 1054 and the Reformation

Yes but in neither the Great Schism nor the Reformation were the Apostolic epistles of St Paul questioned as Sacred Scriptures.