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Why is there a correlation between understanding evolution and accepting it as valid science?

jacknife

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Jim jones also never produced any useful results, yet evolution has given an understanding thats lead to advancments in medicine, embryology (i probably spelled that wrong too) it predicted the nested hiarichy, if its just a scam how did it produce all these results?
 
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Shemjaza

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And I'm sure if we went over his apocalyptic teachings together we would probably be able to discern those twisted points and agree why they were wrong, or just from his imaginings...

If you are accusing biologists of doing the same, and associating them with murdering cult leaders at the same time I think you should back up your insinuations, or retract them.

(It's odd for someone defending creationism to be using devout belief in spite of evidence and opposition as a bad thing.)
 
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Shemjaza

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That's the problem with a non-rigorous definition of "human" it isn't reliable as a tell of human from "animal". How do you deal with the very young, the very sick and the very injured? No longer human?

And what about the extinct species who only loosely resemble modern humans and have technology vastly inferior to the least developed modern human cultures, but more sophisticated then any modern animal?
And the caviar is: The Bible has answered the hardest part of this unanswered scientific problem right in the Genesis 2. Like it or not, this is simply miraculous.
But why should I assume your interpretation of that book as superior to consistent, useful tools that come from studying genetics and morphology?
 
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juvenissun

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But why should I assume your interpretation of that book as superior to consistent, useful tools that come from studying genetics and morphology?

Simple. Because by all means you have, you can not give an answer to the question. But the Bible CAN give one sentence, and it answers, no matter you accept it or not.
 
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Brightmoon

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Simple. Because by all means you have, you can not give an answer to the question. But the Bible CAN give one sentence, and it answers, no matter you accept it or not.
. Science only deals with natural phenomena. If you don’t understand that then you simply don’t understand science! So what the Bible says or any other religious tome says is simply irrelevant to understanding science.

ID and other forms of creationism are pseudoscience and have as much relevance to real science as astrology or phrenology does. And I’m a theist!
 
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durangodawood

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Except Jim Jones was totally wrong and mainly self-aggrandizing, while biologists are mostly right and interested in truth rather than ego.
 
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pitabread

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Another catch all cop out comment that's not proven to mean a thing....one of your greatest strengths.

Consider it a conclusion derived from past experimentation and observation.
 
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DogmaHunter

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I've never heard of Ken Miller before. Francis Collins, yes, though I don't think he has quite the same profile that someone like Dawkins has.
Yes, one is a devout christian and the other is a somewhat bitter atheist. Funny and witty though.

As far as the science goes, they are / were both excellent who made a name for themselves as a direct result.

I could give you a list of Catholic scientists (not including Ken Miller, apparently ), but again, none of them are really household names in the same way.

The thing is though, most people who know Dawkins, know him as an atheistic ranter and / or science popularizer. Both of which are like a second carreer for him. If he would have truelly retired after his work as a biologist, you likely wouldn't know him, just like you don't know who Miller is.

So the point is: Dawkins isn't exactly a celebrity because of his work in biology - not directly, anyway.

Well, no. When a scientist makes claims about how favorable or hostile the modern state of science is to religion, they are stepping outside of their field and commenting on theology instead.


Again, people like Krauss and Dawkins are just responding to creationist movements. If it weren't for such movements, they'ld feel no need to do such things.
For example, you don't have any scientists doing tours and debates about how we weren't genetically engineered by the ancient alien reptilians known as the Annunaki, because nobody takes them seriously, nore do they have a large following or influence of any kind in politics / policies etc.

They are motivated because of the disturbing amount of people, particularly in the US, who believe abrahamic mythology to being literal history, and who are rather active in their fight against scientific inquiry and progress.

If anything, they are marking/protecting the territory of science from theology, rather then tresspassing into theology, while giving their opinion about said theology.


If their goal is to promote atheism rather than science, then they don't have to be cautious about this, but if they hope to improve trust in science, it's a problem they ought to keep in mind.

What they try to promote, is rationality and intellectual scepticism. It seems you're saying that their strategy might be wrong. Perhaps.


Then I guess, you're not one of those people who will turn on science because of the "attacks" on religious fundamentalism these science popularizers engage in.


But the topic of this thread revolves around why people fail to accept evolution, and I think this is a factor.

Disagree. They rejected evolution already before they heared atheistic science rants.

I am bemused that multiple atheists here have taken me for a raving Creationist for criticizing Dawkins, though.

Do you think that's what I did?
 
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DogmaHunter

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So, a psychopath is not human?
 
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DogmaHunter

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How exactly does this happen? There are no 'holes' in the theory but plenty in the math.
A drop in selection pressure to continue having functional eyes.
When you become less dependend on sight, the selection pressure drops.

If then mutations happen that damage sight, it will be less and less of a problem.

Look at moles. They actually have eyes. They don't work. In, fact, they can't even open them. They are covered by a layer of skin. And that's selection pressure too...

A non-working eye, is still prone to infection. If you live underground, dirt is gonna get stuck in eyes and it can kill you through infection. With a layer of skin, that will not happen.

Why does a species like that, have non-functioning eyeballs hidden away behind a layer of skin, if not through evolutionary processes and ever-changing selection pressures?
 
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jacknife

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I believe they still can tell good from evil to a certain degree.
I work with people who will literally stuff so much food in thier mouth, they will suffocate and die if unsupervised while eating. And out in the world these people are abused beacuse they dont know. Trust me the musing of good and evil are lost on them.
 
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juvenissun

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Try to ask them whether we should murder.
Then, if we could, ask a chimp the same question (I don't think a chimp could understand the question).
 
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DennisTate

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Maybe im out of the loop but who are all these major scientist that are anti-theistic? I can only think of one and im not sure i even classify him as antithestic.

I have came to believe that G-d in a sense "evolved" in that G-d got better and better and better at creating universe and a myriad of life forms over infinite time in the past and then Adam and Eve were created six or seven millennia ago, (linear time).

Before the Creation of Adam and Eve Lucifer led a third of the angels into a rebellion and I believe that the story in the Garden is the beginning of the bringing back of the creations that fell.



Mellen-Thomas Benedict's Near-Death Experience

 
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Silmarien

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How is this relevant to my point? I have never said that Dawkins is a celebrity because of his work in biology. When scientists who would like to be celebrities decide that the best way to do so is to go into atheistic polemicism and try to leverage their scientific knowledge for anti-religious purposes, that is dangerous. It contributes to the idea that science is the enemy of religion.

It also might land the theory of evolution in some legal trouble one of these days, if the courts decide that the atheistic polemicism attached to it constitutes a violation of the proscription against teaching religion in schools.

Again, people like Krauss and Dawkins are just responding to creationist movements. If it weren't for such movements, they'ld feel no need to do such things.

Krauss certainly is not, since he is a physicist, not a biologist. He's in the business of trying to take down Cosmological Arguments, which has literally nothing to do with Creationism.

He's welcome to do so, of course, but again, it's not the best hobby for a scientist to engage in if they're trying to promote public trust in science.

What they try to promote, is rationality and intellectual scepticism. It seems you're saying that their strategy might be wrong. Perhaps.

Eh, I think they are simultaneously trying to promote trust in science and trying to be celebrities for the atheistic community. This actually involves a slide towards dogma rather than intellectual scepticism, since now they have followers to appease. It's a bad situation all around. (Or at least it was. As a fad, I think it's mostly died out now.)

Then I guess, you're not one of those people who will turn on science because of the "attacks" on religious fundamentalism these science popularizers engage in.

Depends on what you mean by "turn on science." Too much bad philosophy from scientists has made me pretty cynical about them.

Disagree. They rejected evolution already before they heared atheistic science rants.

And hearing the atheistic rants will only make them more convinced that they were correct to do so.

Do you think that's what I did?

Eh, as far as I can tell, you think everyone is a fundamentalist.
 
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