Why is satan the bad guy?

TheStraightener · Sep 5, 2014

Blessedj01 said:
"I wish I was never born!"

God knew, gave us a chance anyway and planned to give His own life to fix it since before it happened. God is good, we are not and it is only because of His grace that we are talking about this on our fancy computers with our God given freedom.

Where is the God given freedom of homelesss people who can't get to a computer? Or the God given freedom of people in the third world? Or the God given freedom of people like Joseph Fritzels daughter who was locked in a basement for 25 years.

How come its only people fortunate enough to be born in developed countries and can afford things have a God given freedom?

Blessedj01 · Sep 5, 2014

TheStraightener said:
Believe or Burn!

Get it right, Jesus wants you to believe but he won't force you,

You can choose to seperate from God if you want to.

You won't burn because you don't believe in Jesus, you'll burn because of your sin, because it places you apart from God and all that is good.

Where there is no water, there is fire. Water is life and God is living water.

rockytopva · Sep 5, 2014

Nithavela said:
Yes, pray harder or you will suffer.

I will do what I can to rise to that level.... Man of God!
RW Schambach - What is a Man of God? - YouTube

Blessedj01 · Sep 5, 2014

TheStraightener said:
Where is the God given freedom of homelesss people who can't get to a computer? Or the God given freedom of people in the third world? Or the God given freedom of people like Joseph Fritzels daughter who was locked in a basement for 25 years. How come its only people fortunate enough to be born in developed countries and can afford things have a God given freedom?

Wait, what! You took that the wrong way I think. God isn't the universes' provider of iPads and laptops. My point is that we are using the freedom God gave us, to discuss this.

Economic situations are created by humanity, so us it Gods fault or ours? Which is it now?

I've been homeless, Jesus still reached me. You don't need a computer to know Jesus.

I've lived in the third world, Jesus still reached me. There are millions of Christians in poor countries.

I was attacked and was held captive by three men, Jesus still reached me. Jesus didn't do that to me, the men did. And Jesus helped me escape. Who are we to say that in the Fritzel case, God an wasn't there? Why are we on a new tangent where God gets the blame for what men do?

I think your attitudes towards poor people in developing nations are actually racist.

And this discussion is now silly. You're confusing the free will we have with the situation we are in inside a fallen world. If you're so outraged, then do something about it. It's not God's fault and He gave His own life to fix it.

TheStraightener · Sep 5, 2014

Wow. So I'm racist now?

Please highlight my racist comments. In fact, please highlight where I mentioned anyone's race at all?

The ridiculous lengths that people will go to to justify their own absurd beliefs never cease to amaze me.

And he didn't give his life to fix it at all.

From what I recall he was alive again a few days later.

TheStraightener · Sep 5, 2014

Also if Jesus helped you out of those situations.... Then he is obviously capable so why doesn't he do it for everyone?

What is so special about you?

There are millions of people in trouble and dying as we speak. Why did he help you and not the rest?

Nithavela · Sep 5, 2014

TheStraightener said:
Yeah the ape that was TAUGHT sign language?

Why the emphasis on "taught"? I was taught english, too. Do i give you the impression that I am unable to communicate?

Sorry, but that is some crazy goalpost moving you are doing here.

Blessedj01 · Sep 5, 2014

TheStraightener said:
Wow. So I'm racist now? Please highlight my racist comments. In fact, please highlight where I mentioned anyone's race at all? The ridiculous lengths that people will go to to justify their own absurd beliefs never cease to amaze me. And he didn't give his life to fix it at all. From what I recall he was alive again a few days later.

It's racist, or prejudiced, to assume that because people are poor or in 3rd world countries, that they don't have freedom, or that god can't reach them. Actually it's the poor people who could teach us a lot.

Jesus was innocent and took everyone's sentence. He bore all our sins. He rose again in three days because his accuser was false, but make no mistake he DIED he gave up his life he was 33 and loved his friends and family he was tortured and spit on. For us. He was god but he was fully man and hurt the same way we do.

TheStraightener · Sep 5, 2014

Nithavela said:
Why the emphasis on "taught"? I was taught english, too. Do i give you the impression that I am unable to communicate?

Sorry, but that is some crazy goalpost moving you are doing here.

I'm not moving any goalposts. I never even brought up the monkey in the first place.

I was trying to emphasise that a monkey being taught sign language does not mean that a snake or a donkey can converse with humans.

Nithavela · Sep 5, 2014

Of course they can't. (Unless by magic/miracle, of course).

You were talking about any animal, though. So you'd lose this bet.

TheStraightener · Sep 5, 2014

Blessedj01 said:
It's racist, or prejudiced, to assume that because people are poor or in 3rd world countries, that they don't have freedom, or that god can't reach them. Actually it's the poor people who could teach us a lot.

Jesus was innocent and took everyone's sentence. He bore all our sins. He rose again in three days because his accuser was false, but make no mistake he DIED he gave up his life he was 33 and loved his friends and family he was tortured and spit on. For us. He was god but he was fully man and hurt the same way we do.

I'm not being racist at all. I'm pointing out that God is sitting back and allowing this to happen. If I was all powerful then the first thing I would do I is end their suffering by giving them clean water, food and a better quality of life.

Your all loving God chooses not to do this.

You have the nerve to call me racist for pointing this out while in the same breath you worship someone who sits back and does nothing about it.

TheStraightener · Sep 5, 2014

Nithavela said:
Of course they can't. (Unless by magic/miracle, of course).

You were talking about any animal, though. So you'd lose this bet.

You knew exactly what I was getting at. Stop playing the idiot.

Robban · Sep 5, 2014

Smidlee said:
Why do you pick out only the "here and now" ? It's one thing to say you don't believe in scripture it's another when you are misrepresenting what it claims. The scripture clearly states death is not the end only the beginning. And don't think about misquoting Ecclesiastes as Solomon continuously used phases like "under the sun" and "I said to my heart" in that book.
You are taking the atheist belief that the material world is all there is and trying to apply it to God. If you believe the material world is all there is then take the Bible advice to eat ,drink and be merry for tomorrow you die.

It is not to be taken lightly, "Nothing new under the sun."

For God nothing is new under the sun.
consider,

One might suppose that with the Creation of the World God,s knowledge underwent a change,

inasmuch as He could not have possibly known the World beforehand once the World was created,

God would thus know something that previously He did not.

DogmaHunter · Sep 5, 2014

Strathos said:
Being unable to even consider it does.

If we have to take time to "consider" every single claim, then we wouldn't have the time to do anything else.

Claims are infinite in number. A pre-filtering of claims is required for practical purposes.

I require reasons to consider an idea. This has nothing to do with being open or closed minded.

To be closed minded means that you will not consider an idea no matter how valid it is or how much evidence supports it.

If you are not willing to consider the claims of a person who claims to have seen a dragon change into a beautiful blonde that made love to him, then then again turn into a dragon and fly away to the planet Venus, then you are not being "closed minded". Then you are being rational.

Unfalsifiable claims have no merrit. They are infinite in number and "considering them" is a gigantic waste of time.

DogmaHunter · Sep 5, 2014

Aldebaran said:
You know, even if this didn't happen a second time, it doesn't mean it never happened. Same goes for the flood of Noah. It didn't happen a second time, but it doesn't mean it didn't happen the first time either.

Floods leave traces. We can investigate if it happened at all at any point (once, twice or multiple times). When we do investigate, we find that it doesn't hold up. It never happened.

Not because it didn't happen more then once. But because it didn't even happen once.

Same with the creation of the universe.

Appealing to ignorance is a bad idea.

Some things are just miraculous

That's an assertion that has never been shown to have any merrit in reality.

Many things described in the bible are miraculous

aka "magical".

which made them noteworthy enough to record them

Perhaps if you are gullible.
Plenty of scripture appeals to magic. Most of which you reject. Simply because someone took the time to write down the unevidenced claims and assertions, doesn't give those claims and assertions any merrit or value.

I could write down that the undetectable 7-headed dragon provide me with food when I was hungry, but that doesn't make it true - even if I really believed it.

Other things recorded there are not miraculous at all, which I'm sure makes those things easier for athiests to accept

They obviously would be more plausible and by extension more believable. But wheter or not they are accepted would still depend on the evidence in support of it.

For example, claiming that Julius Ceasar visited south america doesn't include invoking supernatural shenannigans. But still the claim is very unlikely to be true and should not be accepted.

which makes me wonder why they can accept those things, but not the rest.

One word: evidence.

DogmaHunter · Sep 5, 2014

Blessedj01 said:
You've been given enough information by now. And sorry, I don't have time to reply to all of what you've said. I think you're starting to make completely baseless analogies. Satan is the bad guy because he preys on the innocent and seeked to destroy God, the protector of the innocent. That's all you need to define him as bad.

You are just asserting things. You are using your a priori beliefs to justify your current beliefs.

Your argument is as circular as it could possible get.

I'm asking you to show you your pre-determined definitions match up against what is actually said about the actions and motives. You fail to do that and just continue to repeat the same claims, assertions and pre-determined definitions.

Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

Maybe you need to think about where your dragon imagery and made up religion is taking you.

It certainly isn't accomplishing its intended goal of making you see a simple point.

DogmaHunter · Sep 5, 2014

Blessedj01 said:
Death entered the world because of SIN, not because of God!

1. in the theology, the installment of death was a punishment given by god for the "crime" of sin. It's 100% false to claim that humans brought death into the world. God did that. Just like it's 100% false to claim that a murderer "put himself in jail". He didn't. He committed a crime that opened him up to possible punishment by a judge. But it is the judge that put him in jail and this judge could have chosen not to do that. Especially if he is all-powerfull.

2. the millions of innocent children and babies that died during the many genocides committed or commanded by god were still innocent. God didn't bother to spare them. The equivalent would be to nuke the entire middle east killing millions, in order to kill a couple thousand of ISIS terrorists.

Robban · Sep 5, 2014

Blessedj01 said:
Does Jesus require too much thought?

You are very hasty,
You say, without hesitation, something is wishy washy,
So what are you, a robot?

Do you never consider any thing?

You have Heard, "Measure twice cut once?"

Blessedj01 · Sep 5, 2014

Nithavela said:
Why the emphasis on "taught"? I was taught english, too. Do i give you the impression that I am unable to communicate? Sorry, but that is some crazy goalpost moving you are doing here.

I was spoken to in fluent English in a human voice by a trained bird, I'm not even joking. He even sang.

Blessedj01 · Sep 5, 2014

TheStraightener said:
I'm not moving any goalposts. I never even brought up the monkey in the first place. I was trying to emphasise that a monkey being taught sign language does not mean that a snake or a donkey can converse with humans.

In the garden of eden we had a connection with animals that allowed us to communicate. Not just that, but Satan was present in the serpent. Or it's partially allegorical.

Why is satan the bad guy?

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Love to pray! :)

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you're in charge you can do it just get louis

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you're in charge you can do it just get louis

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