Why is satan the bad guy?

[Blessedj01]

Absolutelty. My opinions of you (not that I know you to have any lol) make no difference to the merits of your argument.

alright, maybe one day we'll swap videos and both pretend to watch them.

 

[TheStraightener]

It's also interesting that you mention Job's children.... Are you aware of the part God played in the deaths of the 10 people surrounding Job?

 

[Blessedj01]

I repeat... Who exactly did he kill

Every murder traces back to him in some form or another.

 

[Blessedj01]

It's also interesting that you mention Job's children.... Are you aware of the part God played in the deaths of the 10 people surrounding Job?

Of course I'm aware, Satan intended his deeds for evil and God turned them into good.

 

[TheStraightener]

Yeah didn't God pretty much allow him to do it as some sort of twisted bet?

 

[BL2KTN]

Cya, bro.

Pathetic. The human brain is more capable than this.

 

[TheStraightener]

alright, maybe one day we'll swap videos and both pretend to watch them.

Haha!! That sounds like a plan

 

[DogmaHunter]

No point having a conversation with me until you acknowledge what the source says about Satan.

Actually, there is not point in having the conversation if you fail to understand what is being asked in this thread.

All of us KNOW that the source that speaks about god and satan defines god to be good and satan to be bad. Nobody denies this.

The question being asked is if these definitions are justified. Are they actually the way the bible defines them to be.

I can write a text and define Ted Bundy to be a saint in that text. But does that definition match with Ted Bundy's actions, decisions and motives? THAT is the question.

He is the father of lies, accuser of children and the destroyer of faith.

Yes, those are some of the assertions made. The question is if those assertions are supportable. Are they accurate and justified?

The Bible is not ambiguous. God is the creator, perfect and just. Satan was created, became full of pride and fell.

The propaganda in North Korea is not abiguous. Kim Jung the dictator is perfect, just and totally awesome. But the democratic west is full of pride, lies and the embodiment of evil.

Is the subject matter sinking in, or do you require more time to think about it?

 

[DogmaHunter]

It's not "100%" false.

Except that it is. Adam and Eve in the story didn't do anything that directly resulted in them becoming mortal. It was an action from god that made them mortal. Whatever reasons god had to engage in that action is irrelevant to the point being made. It's an act of god that made them become mortal.

Just like it is an act of the authorities that sends a criminal to jail. The judge can decide against jail and go for another punishment, like for example community service. He could even let the dude go with a simple warning or probation.

Adam and Eve didn't make themselves mortal. God did that - for whatever reason.

You keep viewing creation through this non-existent lens where anything created stands on it's own two legs. Hence why you revere the creation of the dragon. You don't see that it's just a sub-creature with no power or purpose compared to God. Without God, nothing exists.

This is completely irrelevant to the subject at hand.

When God said not to not disobey him, he knew that man would die. Man knew too, but we disobeyed anyway. We chose something that is not of God, who knows no evil. God knows no sin, but we do. We ate from the tree, gained the knowledge of evil and now we die. We can't live in a state of imperfection. Look at our bodies. God made us perfect and we became imperfect and vulnerable. We thought we would be like God in this knowledge, because we believed the liar Satan, but though God knows about sin he has never sinned. Satan lied and we bought the lie because we thought we could be like God.

Still sticking to the definitions. Try arguing objectively without bias.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Maybe we should ask why is Satan the good guy? Are there any reasons that don't involve implying God isn't good? If not why would you assume goodness can come out of an evil God?

You assume that good and evil are concept that are subject to god.
Meaning that something is good simply because god defines it that way.

Meaning that if tomorrow god decides that raping and murdering is good, then it's good. Clearly this can't be right.

You assume that god can't be evil or engage in evil.

I don't see how you can conclude such a thing.

 

[Blessedj01]

Yeah didn't God pretty much allow him to do it as some sort of twisted bet?

It wasn't a twisted bet, but there was a wager and God used Satan's intent against him.

 

[Blessedj01]

Actually, there is not point in having the conversation if you fail to understand what is being asked in this thread. All of us KNOW that the source that speaks about god and satan defines god to be good and satan to be bad. Nobody denies this. The question being asked is if these definitions are justified. Are they actually the way the bible defines them to be. I can write a text and define Ted Bundy to be a saint in that text. But does that definition match with Ted Bundy's actions, decisions and motives? THAT is the question. Yes, those are some of the assertions made. The question is if those assertions are supportable. Are they accurate and justified? The propaganda in North Korea is not abiguous. Kim Jung the dictator is perfect, just and totally awesome. But the democratic west is full of pride, lies and the embodiment of evil. Is the subject matter sinking in, or do you require more time to think about it?

Yes, the definition is justified. Not sure why you are lecturing a Christian on interpreting the Bible if you don't believe it to be true.

Your Ted Bundy analogy is terrible, btw.

 

[DogmaHunter]

If you follow Satan you will die. If you follow Jesus you will live. The choice can't be that difficult.

Kim Jung to his North-Korean citizens: if you follow me you will live, if you follow the democratic west you will die.

Toto Riina to his associates: if you follow the cosa nostra you will live, if you follow the secret services, you will die.


ISIS in Iraq: if you follow strict islamic shariah, you life, otherwise you die


The lesson: the choice between life and death in no way, shape or form indicates what the "good" or "evil" choice is. In fact, it sounds like fear tactics above anything else. Which, incidently, is the trademark policy of brutal dictatorships.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Yes, the definition is justified.

Are you going to explain how it is justified, or do you expect me to take that assertion at face-value as well?

Not sure why you are lecturing a Christian on interpreting the Bible if you don't believe it to be true.

Still not understanding the subject matter I see.

Your Ted Bundy analogy is terrible, btw.

You just think that because the point is flying right over your head.

 

[Blessedj01]

Except that it is. Adam and Eve in the story didn't do anything that directly resulted in them becoming mortal. It was an action from god that made them mortal. Whatever reasons god had to engage in that action is irrelevant to the point being made. It's an act of god that made them become mortal. Just like it is an act of the authorities that sends a criminal to jail. The judge can decide against jail and go for another punishment, like for example community service. He could even let the dude go with a simple warning or probation. Adam and Eve didn't make themselves mortal. God did that - for whatever reason. This is completely irrelevant to the subject at hand. Still sticking to the definitions. Try arguing objectively without bias.

Actually the second quote is totally relevant.

It wasn't God's decision to rebel or make man "mortal," it was man's.

God said if you eat from the tree you shall surely die.

You separate God from his creation, but He is the cause of it and the power behind it.

When they disobeyed God, they changed his creation and separated themselves from His power.

Everything that happens within creation, happens through the lens of who God is. Even if God didn't punish sin, there would still be consequences for operating outside what the Creator has defined for us.

 

[Blessedj01]

Kim Jung to his North-Korean citizens: if you follow me you will live, if you follow the democratic west you will die. Toto Riina to his associates: if you follow the cosa nostra you will live, if you follow the secret services, you will die. ISIS in Iraq: if you follow strict islamic shariah, you life, otherwise you die The lesson: the choice between life and death in no way, shape or form indicates what the "good" or "evil" choice is. In fact, it sounds like fear tactics above anything else. Which, incidently, is the trademark policy of brutal dictatorships.

You're comparing men to God. Every one of your posts is a direct accusation to God. I'm concerned for you, why do you think he is so bad? Why are you accusing him through me? Why don't you speak to him yourself?

 

[Blessedj01]

Are you going to explain how it is justified, or do you expect me to take that assertion at face-value as well? Still not understanding the subject matter I see. You just think that because the point is flying right over your head.

We've been over it, bro.

 

[Blessedj01]

You assume that good and evil are concept that are subject to god. Meaning that something is good simply because god defines it that way. Meaning that if tomorrow god decides that raping and murdering is good, then it's good. Clearly this can't be right. You assume that god can't be evil or engage in evil. I don't see how you can conclude such a thing.

Double post.

 

[Blessedj01]

You assume that good and evil are concept that are subject to god. Meaning that something is good simply because god defines it that way. Meaning that if tomorrow god decides that raping and murdering is good, then it's good. Clearly this can't be right. You assume that god can't be evil or engage in evil. I don't see how you can conclude such a thing.

God never changes, so you've got that wrong.

You're right, God can't engage in evil, so there's something wrong with the understanding you have of who he is.

You're speaking like the dragon now and I will say a prayer for you. DH. You don't need to live like this when God is good and He loves you.

 

[TheStraightener]

It wasn't a twisted bet, but there was a wager and God used Satan's intent against him.

So God was implicit in the death of those people.

Ironic how the only murders that the bible specifically mentions that Satan commited was when God permitted him to.