Why is rape not being taking seriously?

[yasic]

Considering how rape is often failed to be prosecuted and the type of attitude towards rape victims by police, lawyers, etc. it would be heavily slanted towards the former.

On the flip side, many people are put in jail for decades based on nothing but the word of one person. Considering how a person is pronounced guilty without evidence so often, it could just as easily be slanted toward the latter.

 

[Cactus Jack]

.

 

[Ana the Ist]

The victim was coerced and pressured into claiming she lied before being made to drop the charges. This kind of thing is common.`

According to her. I try not to judge the truth of a story until I've heard both sides. I doubt we'll ever get the detective's side, but there's plenty of reasons to suspect her story of being dishonest just based upon what she said.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

Alabama Judge Once Again Sentences Rapist To Probation Without Prison Time | ThinkProgress


Texas School Retaliated Against Student For 'Public Lewdness' After She Reported Rape | ThinkProgress

I personally think one possible reason is because :

The sexual climate in America which is governed primarily by how Women portray themselves sexually / how they are portrayed by the Mass Media / and how willing they are today (by and large) to settle for a lifestyle of sexual hedonism then murder their developing Baby if pregnancy occurs.....has put Women and even sexual abuse of them in a different light than in the past.

Further, Women place themselves in very compromising situations especially when out on a date with a Man by not using good judgement or common sense, etc.. that they set themselves up for a Fall (not that they deserve it in the least) .

The overall view of modern Women in America , is not one of high esteem by Men and even our Governing Authorities ; with the rise of Mysogamy due to the cheapening of Women ... we can expect the current statistic of 1 in 4 women being assaulted sometime in their lifetime, to rise making it very unsafe to be a Female in this day and age. If I were a Woman whether married or single, I would always carry a small concealed gun with me and never be without it . It is going to get a lot worse and will never get better. Ever.

 

[yasic]

The rate of rapes in the western world is thankfully falling, not rising. While it is a still a huge issue that needs to be addressed and solved, your fears of it getting worse are misplaced.

 

[Strathos]

On the flip side, many people are put in jail for decades based on nothing but the word of one person. Considering how a person is pronounced guilty without evidence so often, it could just as easily be slanted toward the latter.

Perhaps but judging by the general attitude of society towards rape (at least in the US) that is less likely to happen for that crime.

According to her. I try not to judge the truth of a story until I've heard both sides. I doubt we'll ever get the detective's side, but there's plenty of reasons to suspect her story of being dishonest just based upon what she said.

So when in doubt, just accuse the victims of lying. That is rape culture in a nutshell.

 

[yasic]

Perhaps but judging by the general attitude of society towards rape (at least in the US) that is less likely to happen for that crime.

Perhaps you should spend less time looking at attitude of society when determining how our criminal justice system works, and spend more time looking at our criminal justice system itself. Rape is one of the crimes that is successfully persecuted without evidence most. Many of the people sitting in jail right now for rape were the result of a he said/she said court battle, or from people who took a plea bargain because they were told a woman's word alone was enough to get them in jail for much longer than the bargain offers. This is especially so for men of color.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Perhaps but judging by the general attitude of society towards rape (at least in the US) that is less likely to happen for that crime.



So when in doubt, just accuse the victims of lying. That is rape culture in a nutshell.

Go ahead and re-read what I posted, I didn't say she was lying. I said I wouldn't jump to conclusions about the truth without hearing both sides of the story.

You know....like you did? You didn't hear what the detectives had to say, let alone the accused, but you've already bought her story wholesale. That is rape culture in a nutshell, and it's the reason that innocent men go to jail. The public in general is more inclined to believe a woman's accusations of rape before ever hearing any details regarding the incident.

Don't you suppose that maybe, just maybe, that's the reason that police scrutinize these accusations a little harder than they might for other types of cases?

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

The rate of rapes in the western world is thankfully falling, not rising. While it is a still a huge issue that needs to be addressed and solved, your fears of it getting worse are misplaced.

Nonsense ; what you mean to say is : ' REPORTED Rape in the western world which includes America is falling (maybe) ' . Have you and idea how many unreported rapes there are daily in America ? Many occur on Dates where women place themselves in compromising conditions like the Guys Apartment or her Apartment or in a Car on a lonely road .

As our Mass Media continues to highlight Women as willful Tramps / promotes illicit sex during early evening TV / as Women become more apathetic toward sexual hedonism / as inappropriate contentography escalates / as Music Divas push the envelope toward more and more sexual exploits / as Men develop disdain and hatred toward women in general / and as Ones sexuality becomes less and less sacred and private generally.... sexual abuse on women and girls will always be a highly dangerous concern (at least it should be for the common sense Female , although many ive met are clueless and prefer a false sense of security) .

 

[selfinflikted]

Have you and idea how many unreported rapes there are daily in America ?

No, and neither do you.

I see also that you like to blame the victim here. Color me surprised.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

No, and neither do you.

I see also that you like to blame the victim here. Color me surprised.

I believe that a good many women feel quite alright about compromising their sexual mores which often leads to bad things happening to her. Not that they deserve it by choosing to be of a reprobate mind , but that they weren't morally diligent enough or concerned about their safety . Mainly, I blame the sexually illicit Culture we have that thinks sexual hedonism can be a favorite pastime without any fallout whatsoever. One of the Big lies out there today.

And yes, I do have some idea that Date Rape going unreported is common. Ive talked to enough women about it and its happened to them or they know of a woman its happened to. What else do you expect when there are no longer any sexual standards for people to obey and be protected by (?) .

As we get further and further away from God which means Ones fleshly immoral desires will take precedence, then the cesspool grows in size. Its all part of the atheistic ideology of moral relativism played out . No desired absolute sexual mores to live by = sexual anarchy (exactly what we have today) ., and it applies to hetero sexuals and homo sexuals alike .

 

[Strathos]

Perhaps you should spend less time looking at attitude of society when determining how our criminal justice system works, and spend more time looking at our criminal justice system itself. Rape is one of the crimes that is successfully persecuted without evidence most. Many of the people sitting in jail right now for rape were the result of a he said/she said court battle, or from people who took a plea bargain because they were told a woman's word alone was enough to get them in jail for much longer than the bargain offers. This is especially so for men of color.

You have statistics for that? And the fact is that minorities are more often prosecuted for crimes than others (regardless of which crimes), which is just another facet of injustice and prejudice in society.

Go ahead and re-read what I posted, I didn't say she was lying. I said I wouldn't jump to conclusions about the truth without hearing both sides of the story.

Why would you consider that to be a lie? If you so easily throw doubt on such an account, why would you not subject any contradicting account(s) to the same amount of scrutiny? If you are unwilling to believe this kind of account, what would "hearing both sides" accomplish, unless you were more inclined to believe the contradiction than the victim?

You know....like you did? You didn't hear what the detectives had to say, let alone the accused, but you've already bought her story wholesale. That is rape culture in a nutshell, and it's the reason that innocent men go to jail. The public in general is more inclined to believe a woman's accusations of rape before ever hearing any details regarding the incident.

That runs completely contrary to the vast majority of incidents I know of. Have you heard of the Steubenville case, for example? Often there is even photographic evidence of rape posted online and the rapists get away with it. Sure, in that case they were eventually convicted, but there were so many people fighting against it and it took far more effort and debate than it should have, considering how convincing the evidence was. And even so they received minimum sentences (1 year each, plus an additional year for one of them for "distributing child inappropriate contentography").

Don't you suppose that maybe, just maybe, that's the reason that police scrutinize these accusations a little harder than they might for other types of cases?

They should not be scrutinized any more than claims of non-sexual assault, mugging, robbery, or any other crime.

 

[NDE Master]

The reasons why they acted the way they did could be different for both cases. The frist IDK. The second I think that the school just wanted to keep it's nice image so they try to down play stuff like that and even suppress it.

Peace.

 

[yasic]

You have statistics for that? And the fact is that minorities are more often prosecuted for crimes than others (regardless of which crimes), which is just another facet of injustice and prejudice in society.

I will admit I do not have any statistics to support this (In fact I doubt such statics could even be gathered). The only 'evidence' I have is through numerous personal consultations with various members the legal world, though such is only anecdotal evidence. I do, however, assert that you have no evidence pointing otherwise and thus at best we can only say, as I claimed otherwise, we have no real way of telling to which side the true number of false accusations lie.

 

[Ana the Ist]

You have statistics for that? And the fact is that minorities are more often prosecuted for crimes than others (regardless of which crimes), which is just another facet of injustice and prejudice in society.



Why would you consider that to be a lie? If you so easily throw doubt on such an account, why would you not subject any contradicting account(s) to the same amount of scrutiny? If you are unwilling to believe this kind of account, what would "hearing both sides" accomplish, unless you were more inclined to believe the contradiction than the victim?



That runs completely contrary to the vast majority of incidents I know of. Have you heard of the Steubenville case, for example? Often there is even photographic evidence of rape posted online and the rapists get away with it. Sure, in that case they were eventually convicted, but there were so many people fighting against it and it took far more effort and debate than it should have, considering how convincing the evidence was. And even so they received minimum sentences (1 year each, plus an additional year for one of them for "distributing child inappropriate contentography").



They should not be scrutinized any more than claims of non-sexual assault, mugging, robbery, or any other crime.

"Why would you consider that to be a lie? If you so easily throw doubt on such an account, why would you not subject any contradicting account(s) to the same amount of scrutiny?"

At this point I have to wonder if you're putting words in my mouth just because you're seeing the weakness of your own position. Again, I wouldn't assume she was lying (is this the third time I've had to say it? Even the last post of mine you responded to said the same) I just said that I wouldn't rush to judgement, like you did, without hearing both sides. I would scrutinize both accounts, the problem is that I only have her account to scrutinize and her own words cast doubt on the truthfulness of her story.

"That runs completely contrary to the vast majority of incidents I know of. "

Then you must not know many cases. Remember the Duke lacrosse case? Multiple members of the lacrosse team were accused by one woman and the public was ready to crucify them. Many times in the media they were being vilified...right up until it was learned that the accuser made the whole thing up. In that case, the justice system failed the "rapists" not the "victim" and quite frankly, if those detectives had scrutinized the girls statements a little harder, perhaps they could have avoided a very embarrassing situation.

Oh, and the girl who accused the lacrosse players? She wasn't charged with anything for creating this lie.

"Often there is even photographic evidence of rape posted online and the rapists get away with it. "<----you made this up.

Rape is scrutinized harder than any of those crimes you mentioned....with good reason....evidence. Assault usually leaves physical evidence in the form of injuries, specifically, what is known as defensive injuries. There usually make assault fairly easy to prosecute. Mugging, robbery both have stolen items that make prosecution easier. Robberies in particular typically have other evidence left at the scene of the robbery.

 

[Strathos]

I will admit I do not have any statistics to support this (In fact I doubt such statics could even be gathered). The only 'evidence' I have is through numerous personal consultations with various members the legal world, though such is only anecdotal evidence. I do, however, assert that you have no evidence pointing otherwise and thus at best we can only say, as I claimed otherwise, we have no real way of telling to which side the true number of false accusations lie.

Fair enough.

"Why would you consider that to be a lie? If you so easily throw doubt on such an account, why would you not subject any contradicting account(s) to the same amount of scrutiny?"

At this point I have to wonder if you're putting words in my mouth just because you're seeing the weakness of your own position. Again, I wouldn't assume she was lying (is this the third time I've had to say it? Even the last post of mine you responded to said the same) I just said that I wouldn't rush to judgement, like you did, without hearing both sides. I would scrutinize both accounts, the problem is that I only have her account to scrutinize and her own words cast doubt on the truthfulness of her story.

If you consider such accounts inherently unreliable, then why would having two opposing accounts make the truth any clearer?

"That runs completely contrary to the vast majority of incidents I know of. "

Then you must not know many cases. Remember the Duke lacrosse case? Multiple members of the lacrosse team were accused by one woman and the public was ready to crucify them. Many times in the media they were being vilified...right up until it was learned that the accuser made the whole thing up. In that case, the justice system failed the "rapists" not the "victim" and quite frankly, if those detectives had scrutinized the girls statements a little harder, perhaps they could have avoided a very embarrassing situation.

Oh, and the girl who accused the lacrosse players? She wasn't charged with anything for creating this lie.

I said "vast majority". The actually reported statistics are 2-8%, after all, and there has been no evidence presented that false accusations are more likely to go unscrutinized, rather the other way around. Second, that particular case has a lot of blame resting on the shoulders of attorney Mike Nifong, who tried to build it up from any evidence he could get (no matter how flimsy), as well as disseminating false information, and tampering with/withholding evidence in order to create some kind of media circus and gain support from African-American and women's rights organizations and gain their support in a local election. It should be noted that throughout doing all of this, he never even spoke with the alleged victim.

"Often there is even photographic evidence of rape posted online and the rapists get away with it. "<----you made this up.

Sexual assault of Savannah Dietrich - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

50 hours of community service. No jail time. As far as I'm concerned that's getting away with it.

Suicide of Rehtaeh Parsons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No charges pressed.

Rape is scrutinized harder than any of those crimes you mentioned....with good reason....evidence. Assault usually leaves physical evidence in the form of injuries, specifically, what is known as defensive injuries. There usually make assault fairly easy to prosecute. Mugging, robbery both have stolen items that make prosecution easier. Robberies in particular typically have other evidence left at the scene of the robbery.

The fact that it is often harder to establish evidence does not mean that it is scrutinized harder. In some cases it may be, but in many cases it is not, especially considering the especially lenient sentences the few rapists that are convicted receive.

97 of Every 100 Rapists Receive No Punishment, RAINN Analysis Shows | RAINN | Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network

 

[Ana the Ist]

Fair enough.



If you consider such accounts inherently unreliable, then why would having two opposing accounts make the truth any clearer?

"That runs completely contrary to the vast majority of incidents I know of. "



I said "vast majority". The actually reported statistics are 2-8%, after all, and there has been no evidence presented that false accusations are more likely to go unscrutinized, rather the other way around. Second, that particular case has a lot of blame resting on the shoulders of attorney Mike Nifong, who tried to build it up from any evidence he could get (no matter how flimsy), as well as disseminating false information, and tampering with/withholding evidence in order to create some kind of media circus and gain support from African-American and women's rights organizations and gain their support in a local election. It should be noted that throughout doing all of this, he never even spoke with the alleged victim.



Sexual assault of Savannah Dietrich - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

50 hours of community service. No jail time. As far as I'm concerned that's getting away with it.

Suicide of Rehtaeh Parsons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No charges pressed.



The fact that it is often harder to establish evidence does not mean that it is scrutinized harder. In some cases it may be, but in many cases it is not, especially considering the especially lenient sentences the few rapists that are convicted receive.

97 of Every 100 Rapists Receive No Punishment, RAINN Analysis Shows | RAINN | Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network

I'm well aware that you said, "vast majority." This is the statement that you said runs "contradictory to the vast majority of cases you know about", is it not?

"The public in general is more inclined to believe a woman's accusations of rape before ever hearing any details regarding the incident."

If that is the statement that I made that you were referring to, then my point still stands. The public really only hears about rape cases that go to trial. Since rape is convicted at about a 58% rate (your RAIN Network puts it at 60%), then guess what? A majority of the time the public is siding with the victim. This goes for cases without a preponderance of evidence (those are still a part of that 58%) as well as wrongful convictions where DNA later exonerated the "rapist" (those are part of the same 58%). Generally speaking, the public only finds the victim's story so weak that they don't convict about 40% of the time.

"Why would having two opposing accounts make the truth any clearer?"

Who says they would be opposing? I just want to hear the detectives explain their thoughts regarding her case. She's the one making the claim that she was bullied into falsely admitting to making up her rape story by two detectives...you honestly can't see why hearing their side might be useful? Don't you think they at least have an explanation for why they handled that case the way they did? Do you think that whenever they get a rape case they just tell each other, "let's harass her until she admits she made it up."?

She said they focused on her mental health and a past sexual assault allegation she had made. She also implied she had ptsd. Do you think it's at all possible they were concerned with this because she had admitted to lying about a sexual assault in the past? That would be a good thing to know, right? She claims she had to retell her rape over and over....she even had to act it out....could this be because she changed her story? Did she have to act it out because what she described didn't seem physically possible? Don't there seem like relevant questions that the detective's side of the story could shed some light on?

Maybe this woman was raped and the detectives badly mishandled the case. Maybe she wasn't raped and she made the whole thing up. All I'm saying is that I wouldn't make a judgment on the matter before hearing the detective's side. You did....you already decided she was telling the truth and the cops were wrong in how they investigated.

Even you jumped to agree with the victim before hearing the facts of the case. Weren't you just telling me that "runs contrary to the vast majority of cases you know"?

Oops.

 

[Strathos]

I'm well aware that you said, "vast majority." This is the statement that you said runs "contradictory to the vast majority of cases you know about", is it not?

"The public in general is more inclined to believe a woman's accusations of rape before ever hearing any details regarding the incident."

If that is the statement that I made that you were referring to, then my point still stands. The public really only hears about rape cases that go to trial. Since rape is convicted at about a 58% rate (your RAIN Network puts it at 60%), then guess what? A majority of the time the public is siding with the victim. This goes for cases without a preponderance of evidence (those are still a part of that 58%) as well as wrongful convictions where DNA later exonerated the "rapist" (those are part of the same 58%). Generally speaking, the public only finds the victim's story so weak that they don't convict about 40% of the time.

And as I said before, this is a red herring, as the public's reaction was not mentioned on my list, rather the reaction of the police, lawyers, court system, etc. A lot of this happens before a case is even brought to court, if it even is.

"Why would having two opposing accounts make the truth any clearer?"

Who says they would be opposing? I just want to hear the detectives explain their thoughts regarding her case. She's the one making the claim that she was bullied into falsely admitting to making up her rape story by two detectives...you honestly can't see why hearing their side might be useful? Don't you think they at least have an explanation for why they handled that case the way they did? Do you think that whenever they get a rape case they just tell each other, "let's harass her until she admits she made it up."?

Do you think if that account was accurate they would admit it without trying to spin the facts to be more favorable to them?

She said they focused on her mental health and a past sexual assault allegation she had made. She also implied she had ptsd. Do you think it's at all possible they were concerned with this because she had admitted to lying about a sexual assault in the past? That would be a good thing to know, right? She claims she had to retell her rape over and over....she even had to act it out....could this be because she changed her story? Did she have to act it out because what she described didn't seem physically possible? Don't there seem like relevant questions that the detective's side of the story could shed some light on?

I find it hard to see what could justify the kind of abuse she went through, unless you're claiming she was lying about significant parts of it.

Maybe this woman was raped and the detectives badly mishandled the case. Maybe she wasn't raped and she made the whole thing up. All I'm saying is that I wouldn't make a judgment on the matter before hearing the detective's side. You did....you already decided she was telling the truth and the cops were wrong in how they investigated.

What would she have to gain by lying about such a thing, after the fact, with no hope of reopening the case or pressing any charges?

 

[yasic]

What would she have to gain by lying about such a thing, after the fact, with no hope of reopening the case or pressing any charges?

Fame, attention.

Not saying she is in this particular case, but it is quite well known for people to fabricate stories to get their personal spotlight.

 

[Ana the Ist]

And as I said before, this is a red herring, as the public's reaction was not mentioned on my list, rather the reaction of the police, lawyers, court system, etc. A lot of this happens before a case is even brought to court, if it even is.



Do you think if that account was accurate they would admit it without trying to spin the facts to be more favorable to them?



I find it hard to see what could justify the kind of abuse she went through, unless you're claiming she was lying about significant parts of it.



What would she have to gain by lying about such a thing, after the fact, with no hope of reopening the case or pressing any charges?

"And as I said before, this is a red herring, as the public's reaction was not mentioned on my list, rather the reaction of the police, lawyers, court system, etc. A lot of this happens before a case is even brought to court, if it even is."

The only red herring here is the stuff you posted about the police, lawyers, and the court system. My statement and yours had nothing to do with any of that. Are you trying to switch the topic because you realize you're wrong? Here's my statement....

"The public in general is more inclined to believe a woman's accusations of rape before ever hearing any details regarding the incident."

Here's your response to that statement...

"That runs completely contrary to the vast majority of incidents I know of."

Then you went into an anecdotal example of the Stuebenville, Ohio rape case and the public backing up the accused and blaming the victim. I'm sure you didn't know, but Stuebenville is about as small as small towns get. Everyone knows everyone...so it really shouldn't be a shocker when the parents and friends and friends' parents all believe the locals and not the girl from another state. Regardless...

I responded with an anecdotal case about the Duke lacrosse case and the public's perception of that case. You then responded with a bunch of statistics from RAINN that had to do with jail time....not public perception. I pointed out that the RAINN statistics regarding the conviction rate of those tried for rape basically proved the point I was making about the public generally believing the accuser and not the accused.

So where is the red herring there? Did you just forget we were discussing public perception of the accuser/accused in rape cases? Did you realize the statistics proved you wrong so you're trying to change the topic to something else without acknowledging that my point was correct? Do you just not know what a "red herring" is?