See my post above. The Bible does not support any notion that people become gods in the standard definition of the word.
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I'm monotheistic but the Bible says "you are gods".
"He was made human so that he might make us gods" Athanasius of Alexandria (De incarnatione 54,3, cf. Contra Arianos 1.39).This has been a perplexing verse for many. If one takes it to mean "gods" in the standard definition, it would clearly state there are many gods, not one as affirmed throughout the Bible, thus forming a distinct contradiction of the Bible, leading to the obvious conclusion that one cannot believe the Bible, or that one has the liberty to pick and choose what one wishes to believe in the Bible.
Moreover, these "gods" are not immortal, but mortal, thus contradicting the definition of what a god is, leaving one to redefine "god" or to determine why these "gods" are mortal.
The Hebrew language, unlike Greek, is quite imprecise and has many words that carry multiple meanings. Some English translations of this verse use "judges" rather than "gods". I believe that this comes much closer to the intended meaning than a literal translation as "gods".
In Orthodox tradition this is explained through the concept of theosis. You can research it, but here is a relevant quote from Fr Andrew Damick:This has been a perplexing verse for many. If one takes it to mean "gods" in the standard definition, it would clearly state there are many gods, not one as affirmed throughout the Bible, thus forming a distinct contradiction of the Bible, leading to the obvious conclusion that one cannot believe the Bible, or that one has the liberty to pick and choose what one wishes to believe in the Bible.
Moreover, these "gods" are not immortal, but mortal, thus contradicting the definition of what a god is, leaving one to redefine "god" or to determine why these "gods" are mortal.
The Hebrew language, unlike Greek, is quite imprecise and has many words that carry multiple meanings. Some English translations of this verse use "judges" rather than "gods". I believe that this comes much closer to the intended meaning than a literal translation as "gods".
"He was made human so that he might make us gods" Athanasius of Alexandria (De incarnatione 54,3, cf. Contra Arianos 1.39).
In Orthodox tradition this is explained through the concept of theosis. You can research it, but here is a relevant quote from Fr Andrew Damick:
"If we can become gods, or become divine, deified, etc., then we are of course not changing into the Holy Trinity. There is only one God. The doctrine of theosis is no threat to monotheism. Even though we “become gods,” we do not supplant God from His eternal throne, nor do we get our own universes to create and rule. No, we are only “gods” in a somewhat lesser sense. This sense aligns with a quotation that Jesus Himself made in John 10:34, when He quoted from Psalm 82:6: “I have said: ye are gods; ye are all sons of the Most High.” So we become adopted into God’s family, as His sons and daughters. And that makes us brothers and sisters of the Son of God Jesus Christ. And it means that we become like God. When you’re in someone’s family, you’re like that person in a deeply intimate way. It’s how you know you’re family."
Here is a relevant quote from Athanasius:Interesting opinion, albeit an unorthodox opinion. In his opinion, did these gods also die like men, as in the Psalm 82:6?
Nobody here is claiming that we, or any of the saints, become God as God is God. Rather that by grace we become what Scripture terms little-g gods, sons and daughters of the God. As such, we don't view Mary as being God, or some sort of competitor for the throne of God, but more as a "deified" or "divinized" or "grace-bearing" human being who "achieved" this position via cooperation with God's will and grace, just as we are all called to do.The operative word here is the first word "if". The reality is that there is and ever will be one God, although the world is filled with many gods (so-called). No human can ever become a god, a demi-god, or a demi-goddess. To believe this is wishful thinking at best and heresy at worst.
An Orthodox having an unorthodox opinion?Interesting opinion, albeit an unorthodox opinion. In his opinion, did these gods also die like men, as in the Psalm 82:6?
That made me comprehend the importance of uncreated Grace and the distinction of energies and essence. That's why Western Christianity think mainly about moral improvement.Nobody here is claiming that we, or any of the saints, become God as God is God. Rather that by grace we become what Scripture terms little-g gods, sons and daughters of the God. As such, we don't view Mary as being God, or some sort of competitor for the throne of God, but more as a "deified" or "divinized" or "grace-bearing" human being who "achieved" this position via cooperation with God's will and grace, just as we are all called to do.
Here is a relevant quote from Athanasius:
A very strong proof of this destruction of death and its conquest by the cross is supplied by a present fact, namely this. All the disciples of Christ despise death; they take the offensive against it and, instead of fearing it, by the sign of the cross and by faith in Christ trample on it as on something dead. Before the divine sojourn of the Savior, even the holiest of men were afraid of death, and mourned the dead as those who perish. But now that the Savior has raised His body, death is no longer terrible, but all those who believe in Christ tread it underfoot as nothing, and prefer to die rather than to deny their faith in Christ, knowing full well that when they die they do not perish, but live indeed, and become incorruptible through the resurrection. But that devil who of old wickedly exulted in death, now that the pains of death are loosed, he alone it is who remains truly dead. There is proof of this too; for men who, before they believe in Christ, think death horrible and are afraid of it, once they are converted despise it so completely that they go eagerly to meet it, and themselves become witnesses of the Savior's resurrection from it. Even children hasten thus to die, and not men only, but women train themselves by bodily discipline to meet it. So weak has death become that even women, who used to be taken in by it, mock at it now as a dead thing robbed of all its strength. Death has become like a tyrant who has been completely conquered by the legitimate monarch; bound hand and foot the passers-by sneer at him, hitting him and abusing him, no longer afraid of his cruelty and rage, because of the king who has conquered him. So has death been conquered and branded for what it is by the Savior on the cross. It is bound hand and foot, all who are in Christ trample it as they pass and as witnesses to Him deride it, scoffing and saying, "O Death, where is thy victory? O Grave, where is thy sting?" [1 Corinthians 15:55]
Here is a relevant quote from Athanasius:
A very strong proof of this destruction of death and its conquest by the cross is supplied by a present fact, namely this. All the disciples of Christ despise death; they take the offensive against it and, instead of fearing it, by the sign of the cross and by faith in Christ trample on it as on something dead. Before the divine sojourn of the Savior, even the holiest of men were afraid of death, and mourned the dead as those who perish. But now that the Savior has raised His body, death is no longer terrible, but all those who believe in Christ tread it underfoot as nothing, and prefer to die rather than to deny their faith in Christ, knowing full well that when they die they do not perish, but live indeed, and become incorruptible through the resurrection. But that devil who of old wickedly exulted in death, now that the pains of death are loosed, he alone it is who remains truly dead. There is proof of this too; for men who, before they believe in Christ, think death horrible and are afraid of it, once they are converted despise it so completely that they go eagerly to meet it, and themselves become witnesses of the Savior's resurrection from it. Even children hasten thus to die, and not men only, but women train themselves by bodily discipline to meet it. So weak has death become that even women, who used to be taken in by it, mock at it now as a dead thing robbed of all its strength. Death has become like a tyrant who has been completely conquered by the legitimate monarch; bound hand and foot the passers-by sneer at him, hitting him and abusing him, no longer afraid of his cruelty and rage, because of the king who has conquered him. So has death been conquered and branded for what it is by the Savior on the cross. It is bound hand and foot, all who are in Christ trample it as they pass and as witnesses to Him deride it, scoffing and saying, "O Death, where is thy victory? O Grave, where is thy sting?" [1 Corinthians 15:55]
"..now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."
Nobody here is claiming that we, or any of the saints, become God as God is God. Rather that by grace we become what Scripture terms little-g gods, sons and daughters of the God. As such, we don't view Mary as being God, or some sort of competitor for the throne of God, but more as a "deified" or "divinized" or "grace-bearing" human being who "achieved" this position via cooperation with God's will and grace, just as we are all called to do.
An Orthodox having an unorthodox opinion?
That made me comprehend the importance of uncreated Grace and the distinction of energies and essence. That's why Western Christianity think mainly about moral improvement.
That isn't what you've done though. You've defined orthodoxy as your interpretation of Holy Scripture.If one defines orthodoxy as aligning with the revealed will and wisdom of God in holy scripture, then any teaching that deviates from it is unorthodox
That isn't what you've done though. You've defined orthodoxy as your interpretation of Holy Scripture.
That isn't what you've done though. You've defined orthodoxy as your interpretation of Holy Scripture.
Where in Holy Scriptures does it say everything has to be in Scripture?Have I really? Pray tell, then, where in holy scripture is Mary given the title of Panagia?
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