Why is it seen always as legalistic?

[E.T.Elijah]

I am a Sabbath-keeper (this thread is not to debate why or why not). I do not keep the Sabbath as a means of earning my right to Heaven any more than someone who loves their neighbor as themselves is doing it as a means of earning their salvation. So why is it always assumed that I am legalistic by obeying what I believe God has asked of me? Does He ask me to obey Him in order to earn His salvation? Or does He ask me to obey Him as a sign of my love for Him as my Savior and Lord. I believe Jesus said "If ye love me keep my commandments." I don't believe He said if you want salvation keep my commandments. Whether those commandments are the 10 commandments (God's moral Law) or the 2 commandments (love God, love neighbor...summary of God's moral Law) the statement is the same. I obey, not to get salvation, but because I want to show my appreciation and love for my Savior who offered it freely to me. I love Him because He first loved me. He showed His love for me by taking the punishment afforded me by my rebellion against Him and allowing me the opportunity to be re-established into the family of God. I show my love to Him by surrendering my life over to Him in obedience. Why is it so hard to understand? Why is their such an argument about why I do it? Why are there no arguments when I give an offering or pay tithe or go to church. Could I be doing those things to earn salvation? Sure I could, but no one ever seems to make a point of telling me I am being legalistic for doing those things. So why is it just my adherence to the Sabbath?

I know it seems as though this is a rant, but I was just talking and it was brought up that we no longer need to keep the 10 commandments and that it was legalistic to do so because we are saved by grace not by works...but then in the same breath I was told we need to keep Jesus commands to love God and love neighbor. Why is my keeping the 10 commandments "works" but my keeping the 2 commandments not "works"? Why is it not ever mentioned as legalism in regards to those, but always in regards to the 10 commandments. Can someone be legalistic about keeping those commands? If so why are they never called out for that?

 

[JohnMarsten]

IMHO

people call it legalistic because it always revolves around this very same thing... the sabbath become the center of everything, other denoms put Jesus first and though it might be the same for SDAs the impression is given that the Sabbath is most important...

Many denoms even say that SDAs dont have Jesus at all...

Besides the Sabbath is also accompanied by a huge list of things one cannot do or at least there are many debates/discussions about what is allowed and what not... and here it is getting legalistic.

Is it OK to cook dinner on the Sabbath day? Some say NO, others say that this law only applied back in the day in order to deliver woman from a tremendous work load as cooking dinner was really tough... I dont know... but the latter (if we agree on the sabbath) seems a little bit out of place IMHO.

Is it OK to work on the Sabbath? Definitely not, unless you become a nurse for example, that is why there are so many nurses in the SDA (especially preachers wives).

So the Sabbath becomes increasing legalistic as there is a huge legal system behind it...

People dont travel on the Sabbath, yet preachers often travel huge distances to serve in a far away church (OK, that is involved with their work..)

 

[Stryder06]

IMHO

people call it legalistic because it always revolves around this very same thing... the sabbath become the center of everything, other denoms put Jesus first and though it might be the same for SDAs the impression is given that the Sabbath is most important...

Many denoms even say that SDAs dont have Jesus at all...

Besides the Sabbath is also accompanied by a huge list of things one cannot do or at least there are many debates/discussions about what is allowed and what not... and here it is getting legalistic.

Is it OK to cook dinner on the Sabbath day? Some say NO, others say that this law only applied back in the day in order to deliver woman from a tremendous work load as cooking dinner was really tough... I dont know... but the latter (if we agree on the sabbath) seems a little bit out of place IMHO.

Is it OK to work on the Sabbath? Definitely not, unless you become a nurse for example, that is why there are so many nurses in the SDA (especially preachers wives).

So the Sabbath becomes increasing legalistic as there is a huge legal system behind it...

People dont travel on the Sabbath, yet preachers often travel huge distances to serve in a far away church (OK, that is involved with their work..)

IMHO

Who's to say what constitutes being legalistic? What other denoms say about us is becoming less and less of a concern for me. The question is what does the bible say and teach? It is true that people can make the sabbath a burden but that has nothing to do with the day, and everything to do with the people teaching such things.

The whole bible has a list of things that we should and should not do. Yet when it comes to establishing what should and should not be done in regards to the sabbath, suddenly its a matter of legalism? I'd say Jesus was the most legalistic person you'll ever find and that's ok with me

I'm tired of these man made terms which are used to cast a negative shadow on things declared by God as just and good and holy and sacred. From what I've seen, the majority of people who have issues with the sabbath, simply have issues with selfishness. You have one day out of seven where God ask you to not do your own thing, and suddenly it's a burden?

I'd wager to believe, and someone please correct me if I'm wrong, that the majority of people when explaining their issues with the sabbath, would list all of the things they can't do, instead of seeing what it is they can do. And I bet you none of those things are things that need to be done on that particular day.

/rant

 

[JohnMarsten]

IMHO

Who's to say what constitutes being legalistic? What other denoms say about us is becoming less and less of a concern for me. The question is what does the bible say and teach? It is true that people can make the sabbath a burden but that has nothing to do with the day, and everything to do with the people teaching such things.

The whole bible has a list of things that we should and should not do. Yet when it comes to establishing what should and should not be done in regards to the sabbath, suddenly its a matter of legalism? I'd say Jesus was the most legalistic person you'll ever find and that's ok with me

I'm tired of these man made terms which are used to cast a negative shadow on things declared by God as just and good and holy and sacred. From what I've seen, the majority of people who have issues with the sabbath, simply have issues with selfishness. You have one day out of seven where God ask you to not do your own thing, and suddenly it's a burden?

I'd wager to believe, and someone please correct me if I'm wrong, that the majority of people when explaining their issues with the sabbath, would list all of the things they can't do, instead of seeing what it is they can do. And I bet you none of those things are things that need to be done on that particular day.

/rant

So what is it that they can do?

 

[Stryder06]

So what is it that they can do?

Spend time with God. Minister. Fellowship. Study. Reflect. What did Jesus do on the sabbath? That's our example.

 

[ChrisCarol]

I am a Sabbath-keeper (this thread is not to debate why or why not). I do not keep the Sabbath as a means of earning my right to Heaven any more than someone who loves their neighbor as themselves is doing it as a means of earning their salvation. So why is it always assumed that I am legalistic by obeying what I believe God has asked of me? Does He ask me to obey Him in order to earn His salvation? Or does He ask me to obey Him as a sign of my love for Him as my Savior and Lord. I believe Jesus said "If ye love me keep my commandments." I don't believe He said if you want salvation keep my commandments. Whether those commandments are the 10 commandments (God's moral Law) or the 2 commandments (love God, love neighbor...summary of God's moral Law) the statement is the same. I obey, not to get salvation, but because I want to show my appreciation and love for my Savior who offered it freely to me. I love Him because He first loved me. He showed His love for me by taking the punishment afforded me by my rebellion against Him and allowing me the opportunity to be re-established into the family of God. I show my love to Him by surrendering my life over to Him in obedience. Why is it so hard to understand? Why is their such an argument about why I do it? Why are there no arguments when I give an offering or pay tithe or go to church. Could I be doing those things to earn salvation? Sure I could, but no one ever seems to make a point of telling me I am being legalistic for doing those things. So why is it just my adherence to the Sabbath?

I know it seems as though this is a rant, but I was just talking and it was brought up that we no longer need to keep the 10 commandments and that it was legalistic to do so because we are saved by grace not by works...but then in the same breath I was told we need to keep Jesus commands to love God and love neighbor. Why is my keeping the 10 commandments "works" but my keeping the 2 commandments not "works"? Why is it not ever mentioned as legalism in regards to those, but always in regards to the 10 commandments. Can someone be legalistic about keeping those commands? If so why are they never called out for that?

When it comes between a man and his wife.

When a father leaves from a family camping trip to Sabbath keep and his 2 year old child runs down the road screaming: " Come back".

For these reasons above I think the 2 greatest commandment brings it into perspective.

I am not a Sabbath keeper. I would like to share my faith walk with you:

Married young
Did what my husband said until it involved my children.
Thru my child of six telling me to pray to God he would help me I learned to do just that.
In 1998 my husband had a major heartattack at age 54. No warnings. He was shocked 14 times to bring him back and while this was happening my son and I were praying. When we didn't know what to pray anymore I started the Lord's Prayer and when I got to Thy Will be done. I said: "No Lord I do not want your will". I then felt a hand on my shoulder and a voice said "I'll be with you". I immediately got back in the prayer and the rest is history.

My husband is still alive with damage and congestive heart failure but really in very good condition, considering.

I do not say the things I say to cause you to believe that he is alive today because of what I did. What I do say is that because of what I did (trusting with all my heart and soul in Jesus, not to heal my husband but to be with me for whatever)I have complete faith and trust that He will be there and this was corroborated to me in the next 6 months as I got into an indepth Bible study: Matthew 28:20....... and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.

Now I would like to ask you a question: Do you have any doubt that I am a child of God, even though I do not keep the Sabbath.

I thank you for your questions and pray God's understanding for us both.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

When it comes between a man and his wife.

When a father leaves from a family camping trip to Sabbath keep and his 2 year old child runs down the road screaming: " Come back".

For these reasons above I think the 2 greatest commandment brings it into perspective.

Matt 10:37,38
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Your example above contradicts what Jesus told us.... earthly attachments do not compare to Heavenly attachments.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

... when I got to Thy Will be done. I said: "No Lord I do not want your will". I then felt a hand on my shoulder and a voice said "I'll be with you". I immediately got back in the prayer and the rest is history.

When you rejected God's will in your life by saying what you did, who do you suppose said "I'll be with you"? Remember, that we have an enemy that's always willing and able to take control.

 

[Section10]

E.T.
If you believe that doing what you do enhances your relationship with God, then Hallelujah. Please do it and God bless you!
The problem I have is when you tell me that I am supposed to do it too. No way will I submit to what you believe. Because I believe something else.
But most groups that claim to have some special insight into God's will must necessarily impose it upon everyone else because if I can get away without what you see as important, it calls your entire practice into question. If I don't need to do it then why do you? By imposing it upon me you are justifying it and protecting it and if the SDA would just go do its own thing for whatever reason and bless the rest of us in what we do, I would have nothing to say.

 

[someguy14]

Look up, you that are Gods children and persecuted wrongfully. God is The only judge.

 

[Stryder06]

When it comes between a man and his wife.

When a father leaves from a family camping trip to Sabbath keep and his 2 year old child runs down the road screaming: " Come back".

For these reasons above I think the 2 greatest commandment brings it into perspective.

My 2yr old (4 now) used to cry when I would leave to go to work. Should I have just stayed home? This is poor logic by any standard.

 

[ChrisCarol]

When you rejected God's will in your life by saying what you did, who do you suppose said "I'll be with you"? Remember, that we have an enemy that's always willing and able to take control.

The same who said : Matthew 28:20......... and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.


4 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.

 

[ChrisCarol]

My 2yr old (4 now) used to cry when I would leave to go to work. Should I have just stayed home? This is poor logic by any standard.

Forgive me for having a sympathetic heart.

The question here in the OP was: Why is keeping The Sabbath considered legalistic?

I think you have answered well. Completely explains why Jesus said.

Mark 12:29-31

29And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.


There is something greater:

Matthew 12:5-7




5Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
6But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. 7But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.


And concerning the wife who did whatever her husband wanted until he came home one day and said he had "a religion" albeit the wife already had a religion.

This is what Peter says to husbands:

1 Peter 3:7
You husbands in the same way, live with your wives in an understanding way, as with someone weaker, since she is a woman; and show her honor as a fellow heir of the grace of life, so that your prayers will not be hindered.

But of course I am sure he did not feel like she was a fellow heir of the grace of life. Why? Because she did not keep the Sabbath and that is what this is all about. That is why I say it is legalistic.


May God give us understanding.

 

[ChrisCarol]

Look up, you that are Gods children and persecuted wrongfully. God is The only judge.

Thank you.

I am sorry I should have presented that question in a different way.

Accoding to the Bible:

Romans 8:15-17

15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Galatians 3:

23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. 24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.

Galatians
4:5-7
5 so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. 6 Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” 7 Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.




My question would be can a non-Sabbath keeper be a child of God? You do not have to answer here but know this whatever you answer is the possible reason for the legalistic thoughts. Only God will know.

 

[E.T.Elijah]

ChrisCarol -
I too have experienced the power of God at a time when all seemed lost. Four years ago I was in your same situation...but with a different outcome. My wife died of heart failure at 33 years old. It was sudden and very unexpected. I sat there the entire 1 1/2 hours as they did all they coud to bring her back. It was God's will that they couldn't. And that is what I prayed for...His will be done. Would I have loved for her to live...of course. But sadly she did ot. But God did respond to my prayer later in the day when I was at home alone feeling like Job and questioning why. He opened my mind to all the things that I had observed of her over the last week or so of her life. See, she struggled in her walk with God and just could not give control over to Him. Her seemed to come and go over the course of her walk wth Him. Yet over that last week little things happened that went unnoticed by me. God showed me the time when I arrived home from work (I work 3rd shift) and she was kneeling down in prayer at the foot of the bed. This was not something that she ever did. He also showed me 2 conversation we had had just days earlier. We had just recieved an unexpected sum of money in the mail and had planned on doing something with the family. Then all of a sudden the brakes on our car started to go out. And it would take that sum to get them fixed. She said "Why is it every time we get a little extra God sends something to take it away from us?" My response was Go sent it in the first place because He knew we would need it for the brakes. She did not like that response. Now, a few days later as we walked out of the brake center she turned and said that she was at peace with having to write that check for the brakes. That she understood that God was in control the whole time. And of course I thought nothing of it. But God showed me that over that last week of her life she had finally turned her whole life over to Him. That she had excepted His gift of salvation and placed her will within His. God's "vision", if it were, gave me the peace I was needing in that time.
So yes, I can agree with what you have been through and that God's grace and mercy are too marvelous to explain by words. And thus, why I obey Him. Because He has shown his true character to me...personally. He has answered my prayers in ways that only I can ever really understand. Because He thinks of me in this unfathomably sized universe, even when I am questioning why He does or doesnt do something. And because He came and freely gave Himself a ransom for my salvation and a hope that again I will be reunited with those that I have lost that now rest in Him.

And to answer your question of whether a non Sabbath-keeper can be a child of God...Yes!! All those who claim hold of Jesus as there Savior and Lord are children of God. But just as there are some that honor God with their whole heart there are those that are just providing lip service. That's why I am glad that Jesus looks on the heart, He knows who are truly His. I feel that there is alot of mis-representation about the SDA view of the Sabbath...and it comes from both sides of the debate. No person who is going to church on Sunday is doomed to "hell." Yes, I do consider Sunday to be the mark of the beast. But, I also believe it is not yet considered the mark. When Sunday worship is enforced by civil laws then it becomes the mark. Until then it is just another day. I also believe that when this time comes those that truly follow God will be opened to the Sabbath truth and see the true "light" behind the Sunday movement. And Jesus himself said that He has sheep in many folds (to me this means all denoms as well as all religions). But He also says that He will call them and they will all join into one fold. But, until that time, "Sunday-keeping" is in no way a ticket to "hell." But at that time, there will be a clear cut line between those who are God's and those who have rejected Him. I hope I explained that to the best of my abilities. God show us light at the time that He feels it is needed. I am learning daily truth. And I have a feeling that I will spend eternity ever learning more. Please understand that just because there are those on this forum or even out in the world (probably more than less) that you may come across that keep the Sabbath out of "legalistic attittude" that does not make the Sabbath wrong...it makes the motives behind keeping it wrong.

And thank you for sharing something personal about your walk with God. Testimonies always strengthen our faith as we can see how Jesus works in the lives of ourselves and others.

 

[Timothew]

Spend time with God. Minister. Fellowship. Study. Reflect. What did Jesus do on the sabbath? That's our example.

Cool. I do that on the sabbath. Of course, I do that everyday.

If I keep the sabbath, that is not legalistic. If I get into your business about the sabbath, that is legalistic.

 

[Timothew]

Np

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

The same who said : Matthew 28:20......... and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.


4 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.

So you think He is the one with you even though you admitted you rejected His will in your life... interesting.

 

[ChrisCarol]

So you think He is the one with you even though you admitted you rejected His will in your life... interesting.

I am sorry that you cannot see past that and see the total surrendar I was able to realize.

God knew my thoughts that day as He does yours. He also knew my thoughts after I accepted his offer.

All To JESUS I surrender.

All to Jesus I Surrender - YouTube

 

[Stryder06]

Cool. I do that on the sabbath. Of course, I do that everyday.

If I keep the sabbath, that is not legalistic. If I get into your business about the sabbath, that is legalistic.

Getting into my business about the sabbath would not be legalistic, unless you were putting man made stipulations on it.

And you may do those things every day, but you also do your own pleasure (whatever that may be) every day. That is what marks the difference between 6/7 days of the week. And that's why I said I believe most people have a problem with the sabbath simply because they can't do what they want to do on it. Thus, it is a problem with selfishness.


BTW: I hope you're doing well. We haven't exchanged thoughts in a while.