Why is it "different when they're yours?"

[Umaro]

I never plan on having kids. I feel strongly enough that I'm having a vasectomy within the coming weeks. I could list 50 reasons not to have kids, very concrete reasons like more time, money, lower stress, etc.

However, nearly everyone I talk to is still completely against me having the procedure. The part that weirds me out though is all of their reasons are very vague and not particularly meaningful. I hear stuff like "you'll regret it later," "tiny hands reaching for you," "watching them play with a ball," and of course, "it's different when they're your own."

Needless to say, these reasons are not very convincing. Weighing "I'll have more free time" vs. "a child's laughter" is a pretty one sided contest in my eyes. But that still leaves the question, even with such vague arguments for having children, why do so many people take that side? They say it's different when its your own, but if I don't like changing diapers and hearing crying now, why would I like it if the kid was mine and I can't escape it? I go to a restaurant and hear a kid cry, I'm annoyed but know I only have to deal with it until I leave. If the kid was mine, I'd have to deal with it 24/7. Why would a child being biologically mine, something I can't take back if I'm wrong, make me change my mind about disliking children?

 

[FaithPrevails]

Well, I think what you said about disliking them is key. A lot of people voice the opinion that they don't want kids of their own (I have a couple of friends who used to practically chant it as a daily mantra) but don't necessarily dislike children. I think people that fall into that category are the ones more likely to change their mind once having one of their own.

For a lot of people who "don't want kids" it's more a fear of the unknown, than dislike for them.

BTW - of my two friends, one is a mom now and one is reconsidering her opinion on the matter.

I would go into detail about what makes it different when it's your own flesh and blood, but I don't think that would really have an impact on your POV.

 

[suzybeezy]

Well I'll say that I am one of those people who DID NOT like children. I didn't want children - to be saddled with them everywhere I went, thought changing diapers would be just gross, hated listening to a crying baby, would get so frustrated at annoying toddlers being brats in restaurants and didn't want to think about dealing with rotten teenagers - the whole nine yard! I liked my freedom and didn't want to surrender my life for another person who would in my minds eye just drain me for little return. Now I have four children. lol While it makes little sense to you now what everyone is saying to you - there is the possibility that one day it will. Unfortunately, as with alot of things, we can only understand based on the mental maturity level we are at based on our current life experiences - so what is being said to us is so foreign that we think its false. But as we get older, we experience different things, life takes us on different paths and then we start to have feelings we didn't previously have.

I tried to explain parenthood to a friend of mine who was still single and enjoying it - and swore emphatically she'd NEVER had children and refused to even touch other peoples kids. I honestly never seen anyone so unsuited for parenthood and would agreed she probably would be one of those peopel who never did. I said, there's nothing that compares to when they put your child in your arms for the first time - there are no words for it - its just an undescribable feeling. When your child puts their arms around you and says they love you - it just feels so good (makes all the not so fun parts of parenting worth it). Your own child gives you an unconditional love that you may never find any other time in your life - other than from God. My friend thought I was nuts and just didn't get what I was saying to her. Now she has 2 children of her own (didn't have them til her late 30s) and is a good mom.

Now with all that said, not everyone is cut out to be a parent. There are many people I know who should have never had children. But I think the decision to surgically eliminate the possibility shouldn't be made until anyone is at least in their 30s and knows their life's path is pretty settled and they will never change their mind - because while its reversable its not always guarantee the reversal will take.

 

[Umaro]

I tried to explain parenthood to a friend of mine who was still single and enjoying it - and swore emphatically she'd NEVER had children and refused to even touch other peoples kids. I honestly never seen anyone so unsuited for parenthood and would agreed she probably would be one of those peopel who never did. I said, there's nothing that compares to when they put your child in your arms for the first time - there are no words for it - its just an undescribable feeling. When your child puts their arms around you and says they love you - it just feels so good (makes all the not so fun parts of parenting worth it). Your own child gives you an unconditional love that you may never find any other time in your life - other than from God. My friend thought I was nuts and just didn't get what I was saying to her. Now she has 2 children of her own (didn't have them til her late 30s) and is a good mom.

First off, thanks for the input.

The reason I'm a bit skeptical about your stance is that, what happens if you're wrong? What if I hold the baby for the first time and don't feel that immense joy? What if the child saying they love me does not offset the hours upon hours of diaper changes? I can't exactly take the kid back to the store.

To draw a parallel, I could go on and on about how great owning a tiger is, and how the first time you hold it as a cub you'd just fall in love, and how when it purrs it makes all the hassle worth it, but I'd never convince you to get one. You just don't want to raise a tiger(I'm assuming). I would then think it a bit patronizing if everyone you knew told you "you'll change your mind later."

But I think the decision to surgically eliminate the possibility shouldn't be made until anyone is at least in their 30s and knows their life's path is pretty settled and they will never change their mind - because while its reversible its not always guarantee the reversal will take.

This is the other thing I don't understand about society (not singling you out in particular). If I showed up to this parenting board and announced that my wife and I were having a child in a few months, I would be met by congratulations all around. The decision to have a child would be even less reversible than the vasectomy, and there is no guarantee I wouldn't change my mind on that issue either. I don't understand why choosing to have a child is approved of, but choosing not to is met with skepticism and "you should wait until you're older."

 

[Nobility]

To be honest, I would be waiting til your older for one reason only. Your possible wife.

As you get older you *may* change your mind, but the other possiblity is that out of love for a possible wife, you fall in love with the idea of having a child to her.

My hubby's not that keen on a kid in general, but wants one *with* me, and this took him over 3 years being married to decide.

Why not just use protection for a few years (based on your religious status) then make it when you are older?

 

[Umaro]

To be honest, I would be waiting til your older for one reason only. Your possible wife.

As you get older you *may* change your mind, but the other possiblity is that out of love for a possible wife, you fall in love with the idea of having a child to her.

My hubby's not that keen on a kid in general, but wants one *with* me, and this took him over 3 years being married to decide.

Why not just use protection for a few years (based on your religious status) then make it when you are older?

I do use protection, every single time. It still scares the heck out of me that there is a chance of failure, or even getting "oopsed." I feel like I'd rather regret not having children than regret having one.

Part of the reason I'm having it done now while I'm single is so that any potential wife knows that "no means no" when it comes to children with me. I don't want to be pestered or tricked into having a child, bitterly resenting it, and then being stuck for 18 years. People tell me that I could have a child out of love for my wife, but why couldn't she not have a child out of love for me? I feel like I'd rather leave a relationship than have a child. Ideally I'll meet someone who also doesn't want children.

It does worry me that I'll meet someone who doesn't want children, we'll marry, but 8 years down the road she changes her mind because of the biological clock.

 

[CrystalBrooke]

If you know that you don't want kids then make sure you talk that out with your future spouse. They need to feel the same way and know that you are both firm in not having kids...otherwise it could cause huge problems. Don't marry someone who's on the fence.
If you did have kids anyways, there is a chance that you wouldn't feel that bond or love. Not everyone is meant to have kids. Not everyone bonds with their children. To tell someone that it's different when they're your's is dangerous.

 

[CrystalBrooke]

Oh, but I do agree that you're too young to have that type of procedure.

 

[Umaro]

If you know that you don't want kids then make sure you talk that out with your future spouse. They need to feel the same way and know that you are both firm in not having kids...otherwise it could cause huge problems. Don't marry someone who's on the fence.
If you did have kids anyways, there is a chance that you wouldn't feel that bond or love. Not everyone is meant to have kids. Not everyone bonds with their children. To tell someone that it's different when they're your's is dangerous.

I fully intend to be upfront about it. I will make sure they know that I never want children, and that if they do they should seek another partner. Just like I don't want anyone to trick me into kids, I won't trick anyone out of kids.

I am worried that someone will say they don't want kids, but in reality expect to change my mind later. Practically everyone I talk to seems to think I'll change my mind later, so it seems reasonable. I know my father never wanted children, and my mother said she didn't either. Of course, years into the marriage she changed her mind, and eventually convinced my father to as well.

Oh, but I do agree that you're too young to have that type of procedure.

As I mentioned before, I find it strange that people consider me too young to decide not to have children, but not to young to have children. They way I see it, in the off chance I do change my mind, I will have some sperm banked and frozen, but in the mean time I am guaranteed not to have an accident which I am likely to regret.

 

[CrystalBrooke]

I think people our age change our minds often as we are still growing and changing. It just seems a bit premature to do something so extreme. Not to mention, I can't believe a doctor would preform that procedure on someone our age. If I were to walk into a Dr's office and tell them to tie my tubes he'd consider my age, the fact that I only have one child and that I'm not married yet...then he'd probably laugh and say no. Most Dr.s will reccomend that you wait til your older. With this type of decision that you're making (have made) it takes much thought and consideration.

And, darlin', nothing in this world is guaranteed until you're dead A vasectomy is only 99.85% effective

You're going to do what you want, but if you makes you feel any better, I would advise a single woman considering "permanent" birth control to wait and think it over a lot more.

 

[Umaro]

I think people our age change our minds often as we are still growing and changing. It just seems a bit premature to do something so extreme. Not to mention, I can't believe a doctor would preform that procedure on someone our age. If I were to walk into a Dr's office and tell them to tie my tubes he'd consider my age, the fact that I only have one child and that I'm not married yet...then he'd probably laugh and say no. Most Dr.s will reccomend that you wait til your older. With this type of decision that you're making (have made) it takes much thought and consideration.

It took me over 8 months of active looking to find a doctor. During that time i extensively researched all options, talked to everyone I know, childed and childfree, I even went to a psychologist. All that doesn't even include the time I spent thinking before. I feel like I've put more effort into it than most people do before having kids.

And, darlin', nothing in this world is guaranteed until you're dead A vasectomy is only 99.85% effective

You're going to do what you want, but if you makes you feel any better, I would advise a single woman considering "permanent" birth control to wait and think it over a lot more.

Vasectomies are 100% effective. The number discrepancy comes from people who do not go back for the "all clear" test. There's only a short time it can grow back together.

The part that worries me about waiting is what happens if there is an accident? As a male I cannot choose abortion, and there is no way to opt out of fatherhood at that point. People say "wait until you're older," but if there was an accident they'd tell me to "man up and take responsibility." I'm trying to do that now, and I'm being fought tooth and nail.

 

[Sabertooth]

I don't know if this was mentioned yet, but a vasectomy increases your risk for certain cancers...

 

[Singermom]

The part that worries me about waiting is what happens if there is an accident?

That's easy: wait 'til your married to have sex. No chance of accidents then!

 

[Umaro]

That's easy: wait 'til your married to have sex. No chance of accidents then!

If I was married and there was an accident, I'd still be stuck with a child I don't want...

 

[Lena75]

I've heard of men who go, get a vasectomy and their wife still ends up pregnant. Vasectomies are not always 100% effective.

You're only 23, what's the rush? Why now?

 

[Lena75]

Double post

 

[grasping the after wind]

I've heard of men who go, get a vasectomy and their wife still ends up pregnant. Vasectomies are not always 100% effective.

You're only 23, what's the rush? Why now?

I wouldn't immediately blame the vasectomy's failure for that. I actually support Umaro's decision 100%, if he has no interest in children why would you want him to become a father? If in future he has a complete change of heart it is possible to reverse the vasectomy or he could adopt. Better to not take the chance of some poor child having a father who resented its existence than to hope he doesn't father a child while waiting to see if maybe his attitude changes.

 

[FaithPrevails]

Vasectomies are 100% effective. The number discrepancy comes from people who do not go back for the "all clear" test. There's only a short time it can grow back together.

according to the Royal College of Obstetricians & Gynaecologists1 there is 1 in 2000 chance of a pregnancy resulting from vasectomy failure - 0.05% (from this site). Every contraception method has a failure rate. The "all clear" test is the best way to prevent it - and while they say recanalization is rare, I've personally known 3 people that it's happened to 10+ years after their vasectomy. So, if you go that route, you might want to find out how often you need to be re-checked for the rest of your wife's child-bearing years once you marry.

The part that worries me about waiting is what happens if there is an accident? As a male I cannot choose abortion, and there is no way to opt out of fatherhood at that point. People say "wait until you're older," but if there was an accident they'd tell me to "man up and take responsibility." I'm trying to do that now, and I'm being fought tooth and nail.

Abstinence until marriage is the only sure-fire way to prevent unwanted pregnancy. (Note - discussing premarital sex is not allowed in this sub-forum on CF, so let's not get off on a tangent about that) If you're on the track to marriage with a GF, then you're going to already know she doesn't want kids and can have the vasectomy prior to the wedding.

 

[Umaro]

I've heard of men who go, get a vasectomy and their wife still ends up pregnant. Vasectomies are not always 100% effective.

You're only 23, what's the rush? Why now?

I want to do it now to avoid any potential accidents. My stance is not "I want children someday," but "I want children never."

according to the Royal College of Obstetricians & Gynaecologists1 there is 1 in 2000 chance of a pregnancy resulting from vasectomy failure - 0.05% (from this site). Every contraception method has a failure rate. The "all clear" test is the best way to prevent it - and while they say recanalization is rare, I've personally known 3 people that it's happened to 10+ years after their vasectomy. So, if you go that route, you might want to find out how often you need to be re-checked for the rest of your wife's child-bearing years once you marry.

Fair enough. I will find that out and be checked periodically.

Abstinence until marriage is the only sure-fire way to prevent unwanted pregnancy. (Note - discussing premarital sex is not allowed in this sub-forum on CF, so let's not get off on a tangent about that) If you're on the track to marriage with a GF, then you're going to already know she doesn't want kids and can have the vasectomy prior to the wedding.

Let's just leave it at I'm not waiting.


I was close friends with a woman of 25 who by all accounts I would consider a great mother. She had 2(age 3 and 1.5), and then 3 children, and cared deeply for them. I got to see fairly first hand what it was like to have children. Her car was constantly covered in spilled food and toys. Whenever we tried to see a show or catch a play, she would have to find someone, usually a family member, to offload the children on, and even then would show up about an hour late most of the time because of the children. When I would be at her house, instead of watching something interesting, we would have to sit on the couch watching children's cartoons so they would not whine. Despite my resentment and protests, the older child would climb onto me and sit on my lap. My friend thought it was adorable, and I considered it a hassle. So my question is what makes it different when they are yours? If I was the biological father of those kids, why would I be happy to sit there watching cartoons instead of annoyed? I just don't understand peoples sentiments about it.

 

[Lena75]

Well, I guess you probably won't know why it's different when they're yours because you're all set on snipping that opportunity out of your life. It's not something you can explain, it's something you experience yourself when you become a parent. Sure, there will be lots of messes everywhere when there are children and there will be cartoons on instead of watching what YOU want to watch. That's called making sacrifices as a parent.