WHY is homosexuality sinful?

[lilymarie]

But that's exactly what I don't want you to do. In other topics, age isn't taken into consideration either, and I'm able to read it.

I've already talked to numerous religious people in my circle of friends. But I haven't got a single satisfying answer yet.



But I don't see any pain or harm caused by homosexuality - except many heterosexuals who seem to have homophobia. Some don't just call it a sin, they judge and discriminate homosexuals.

Like Maccie said, everybody's sinful, so have we the right to point with our fingers at other sinners?

And yes - I want to question everything the church I'm a member of believes. I have never been a person who took the bible just as it is, without asking and informing myself.

Hi Saeph,

I didn't mean to hurt you in any way.

I just feel at your age, it's best to talk with your parents and your pastor about it.

I didn't want things to get to graphic on a message board, especially at your young age.

It just doesn't seem right for me to discuss this with you without your parents consent, so I'm just following my heart about this.

However, I hope some of the posters have helped in answering some of your questions.

 

[Ave Maria]

Being a homosexual is not sinful but the inclination is objectively disordered.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

However, homosexual acts are mortally sinful and put one's salvation at risk.

2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered." They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

More information on homosexuality:

http://www.catholic.com/library/Early_Teachings_on_Homosexuality.asp

http://www.catholic.com/library/Homosexuality.asp

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Is playing blackjack in Vegas a solid financial plan for your life? No? Then why would "this act may or may not hurt me for life - and it may or may not be hurtful to God - so I'll just go ahead and do it"

See, I don't think the two are comparable.

Yes you MIGHT get damaged from having pre-marital sex, either physically or mentally. However, you MIGHT get damaged even if you ARE married.

I would suggest that pre-marital sex, at least between consenting, sensible adults (there are certainly some forms of abusive and self destructive sex, but they arent the rule) is usually beneficial, at least, much more likely to be beneficial than playing black jack as a plan for financial security is.

I think its an ad absurdam comparison, and I'd like to try to keep the discussion relative to the ajority of people. Can we both try to do that?

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

See, I don't think the two are comparable.

Yes you MIGHT get damaged from having pre-marital sex, either physically or mentally. However, you MIGHT get damaged even if you ARE married.

I would suggest that pre-marital sex, at least between consenting, sensible adults (there are certainly some forms of abusive and self destructive sex, but they arent the rule) is usually beneficial, at least, much more likely to be beneficial than playing black jack as a plan for financial security is.

I think its an ad absurdam comparison, and I'd like to try to keep the discussion relative to the ajority of people. Can we both try to do that?

doesn't the fact that God calls it an abomination enough?WHY question His word? ARE you really part of the enemy camp as your name suggest?? Just curious.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

doesn't the fact that God calls it an abomination enough?

First, he calls it abomination in the OT, and lots of people around here keep banging on about how the New Covenant of Christ washes away much of the OT injunctions.

Second, women wearing men's clothing is ALSO called abomination, so I want to know why people go off the scale, out of control insane over one, and really don't give a second thought to the other. If there were religious groups camping out infront of stores that sell jeans to women, well, I still wouldn't necesarily agree with their point of view, but I'd feel better about their even and uniform aplication of the rule...

WHY question His word?

I don't question HIS word. However, we arent talking about His word, we are talking about human interpretation of his word, and even human interpretation of other humans who were inspired to write by him... so I think mechanically, mindlessly following the most basic, first reading understanding of the Bible, irrespective of any agenda of those doing the interpreting, leaves an awful lot of room to loose the spirit of His message...

ARE you really part of the enemy camp as your name suggest?? Just curious.

Define who you consider to be the enemy here?

I picked it as a name because I had just come home from leading an enemy party in a military exercise when I signed up on this site, and it seems a good name at the time.

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

darlin' the Word of God is STILL the Word of God weather it be old testament or new. AND in the NEW it is STILL called an abomination in Romans. GOD said it was wrong..there for it is. As far as women wearing mens clothes...hey..I agree. SO why are you wearing mens clothes in your avatar? BUT since this is a thread on homosexuality, that is why people are 'going off' on it as you say. If you feel strongly about the clothes issue..start a thread on it.

 

[Athanasian Creed]

Hi Saeph, I`d like to just echo what Athenasian Creed said, (to tell you the truth I was a little gutted that he got there first )
Mark

He he...na na na na, na na na na!

One Scripture i forgot to add to my post that i feel is very appropos -

1 Corinthians 6:18 (KJV) Flee fornication (and fornication here includes several sexual sins, including homosexuality). Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

Is without the body; is not a sin directly against his own body. (Abbott)

Sinneth against his own body. The sense is, "It wastes the bodily energies; produces feebleness, weakness, and disease; it impairs the strength, enervates the man, and shortens life." Were it proper, this might be proved to the satisfaction of every man by an examination of the effects of licentious indulgence. Those who wish to see the effects stated, may find them in Dr. Rush on the Diseases of the Mind. Perhaps no single sin has done so much to produce the most painful and dreadful diseases, to weaken the constitution, and to shorten life, as this. Other vices, as gluttony and drunkenness, do this also; and all sin has some effect in destroying the body; but it is true of this sin in an eminent degree. (Barnes)

Uncleanness leaves that blot and brand of ignominy and baseness upon the body which no other sin doth: degrading it from that excellent honour whereunto God advanced it in its natural condition (the bible calls homosexuality "against nature, unnatural" (Romans 1:26,27), by making it the member of an harlot. (Burkitt)


Ray

 

[Zaac]

Being a homosexual is not sinful but the inclination is objectively disordered.



However, homosexual acts are mortally sinful and put one's salvation at risk.





More information on homosexuality:

http://www.catholic.com/library/Early_Teachings_on_Homosexuality.asp

http://www.catholic.com/library/Homosexuality.asp

Seeing as this is not out of God's Holy Bible, does it not violate the new "No Counseling" rule of the forum???

 

[*Starlight*]

Personally, I've never heard any good arguments why homosexuality would be sinful, that's why I just don't believe it is.

Yeah, really simple answer for why homosexuality or any other sin is a sin: because God said it is. Do you really need any other answer?

The one who makes the rules gets to decide what's right and wrong. We don't make the rules, he does.

I don't think it's really an answer, because no one knows for sure if God said anything like that or not. All we have is a record that a long time ago, someone believed that God is against it, and decided to write about it.

 

[Tamara224]

There are numerious threads in the Ethics & Morality forum, but I wanted to open a thread to list reasons why homosexuality is called a "sin".

How does it affect/harm homosexuals or other people? Because all the other sins (stealing, murdering,...) are obviously harmful.

The health risks associated with homosexual practices are not spoken of very often. However, studies have shown that homosexual men have shortened life spans; are much more likely to contract STD (and AIDS); are much more prone to suicide and have pyschological disorders; and are prone to other injuries from the homosexual sex acts themselves.

For some further reading:

http://www.porn-free.org/pdf/Gay_Sex_Health_Risks.pdf

http://www.missionamerica.com/homosexual.php?articlenum=16

An excerpt from the second link:

The list of medical diseases found with extraordinary frequency among male homosexual practitioners as a result of abnormal homosexual behavior is alarming: anal cancer, chlamydia trachomatis, cryptosporidium, giardia lamblia, herpes simplex virus, human immunodeficiency virus or HIV, human papilloma virus -- HPV or genital warts -- isospora belli, microsporidia, gonorrhea, viral hepatitis types B and C, and syphilis.​

Sexual transmission of some of these diseases is so rare in the exclusively heterosexual population as to be virtually unknown. Others, while found among heterosexual and homosexual practitioners, are clearly predominated by those involved in homosexual activity.​

Men who have sex with men account for the lion's share of the increasing number of cases in America of sexually transmitted infections that are not generally spread through sexual contact.​

These diseases, with consequences that range from severe and even life-threatening to mere annoyances, include hepatitis A, giardia lamblia, entamoeba histolytica, Epstein-Barr virus, neisseria meningitides, shigellosis, salmonellosis, pediculosis, scabies and campylobacter.​

The risk of diseases is NOT the same for heterosexuals as it is for homosexuals . The first article I linked to goes into some almost graphic (although in medical terms) detail about why this is the case. Basically, it boils down to the fact that human bodies were not designed for homosexual behavior. It is not natural, it is harmful.

 

[ReformedChapin]

I don't understand why people have such a hard time with this issue. Historically homosexuality has not been accepted in the church. There is no logical reason why God would make anyone gay and there is no realiabel scientific or biblical evidence to show it either.

 

[127Rockledge]

On whole I believe this thread is severely lacking specific scriptural reference to support the idea that homosexuality is a sin.

Also - Tamara, working in an industry that is heavily reliant on life expectancies I can say that homosexual men as a whole do not have shorter life expectancies than heterosexual men.

It is a specific lifestyle led by a niche group of homosexual men very much similar to the common "party going" heterosexual man that leads people to believe in this myth. Promoscuity being the main factor here as well as drug and alchohol abuse being very common.

 

[ReformedChapin]

On whole I believe this thread is severely lacking specific scriptural reference to support the idea that homosexuality is a sin.

Also - Tamara, working in an industry that is heavily reliant on life expectancies I can say that homosexual men as a whole do not have shorter life expectancies than heterosexual men.

It is a specific lifestyle led by a niche group of homosexual men very much similar to the common "party going" heterosexual man that leads people to believe in this myth. Promoscuity being the main factor here as well as drug and alchohol abuse being very common.

"Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable" (Leviticus 18:22) and "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads" (Leviticus 20:13).

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion" (Romans 1:26-27).


What other scriptural evidence do you need?

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

"Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable" (Leviticus 18:22) and "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads" (Leviticus 20:13).

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion" (Romans 1:26-27).


What other scriptural evidence do you need?

people have a hard time because they want to stay in their lifestyle, and God has turned them over to the reprobate mind. I am done discussing this issue because if they value their sin more than the Word..well...so be it.

 

[Tamara224]

On whole I believe this thread is severely lacking specific scriptural reference to support the idea that homosexuality is a sin.

Well, that's not the purpose of the thread. The OP asked for facts about what is harmful about homosexuality and the reason God has forbidden it. But for scripture references, see the thousands of other posts made by other people in this forum, such as the first response to your statement above.

Also - Tamara, working in an industry that is heavily reliant on life expectancies I can say that homosexual men as a whole do not have shorter life expectancies than heterosexual men.

It is a specific lifestyle led by a niche group of homosexual men very much similar to the common "party going" heterosexual man that leads people to believe in this myth. Promoscuity being the main factor here as well as drug and alchohol abuse being very common.

Well thanks for the anecdotal "evidence" but I think if I'm going to choose between your "word" on it and what the medical researches have said....I'll go with them.

Anyway, even if it only pertained to a "niche group" of homosexual men...they are not "very similar" to the common party going hetersexual man. The myth is that homosexuals are "just like everyone else". That's not true at all. Their lifestyles are not just like a hetersexual. The promiscuity alone sets the lifestyle apart.

 

[snoochface]

On whole I believe this thread is severely lacking specific scriptural reference to support the idea that homosexuality is a sin.

Actually there has been quite a bit of scripture posted here as evidence that homosexual behavior is sinful.

Problem is, people who don't want to believe it is a sin come back with things like, "That's the Old Testament, so it doesn't count" or, when New Testament verses are provided, "We don't know for sure the Bible is even God's word so why should we believe it?"

Why should we believe anything then? If the Bible is not God's word, then I do not understand how anyone can decide that anything in the Bible is true or not. What do we base our faith and our beliefs on if we don't know whether or not the Bible is true?

People will believe what they want to believe, whether God says so or not.

[bible]Hebrews 11:1[/bible]

 

[127Rockledge]

The levites were clergy and leviticus was written as instructions for them. Read the WHOLE book, and you will find MANY aspects of your life in regards to sanitation and hygeine that God would certainly "put you to death for."

This bares the same weight as the argument that Christians who eat meat are sinning based on Genesis.

Your excerpt from Romans does not explicitly detail why homosexuality is a sin.

 

[127Rockledge]

Tamara - without scriptural reference who are you to reason God's judgement for this girl? Your speculation on the subject is not needed.

Also, this site details that you may not use your profession to justify point of argument. However I can tell you that my information is based on the law of large numbers as is recorded for the purpose of life and health insurance - and no I do not sell either. It is information taken from a medical concencus.

I know many gay men (no I am not gay) that live very similar lives to myself. They do not go to gay bars/clubs/events or anything of the sort. They simply have a relationship with a man as I would with a woman. Some are even church goers while I am not.

 

[Tamara224]

Tamara - without scriptural reference who are you to reason God's judgement for this girl? Your speculation on the subject is not needed.

And where exactly did I ever say anything about God's judgment against anyone in particular and especially against "this girl"? I don't even know who "this girl" you accuse me of judging is... The OP didn't say she was homosexual and I didn't even say anything to suggest I thought she was. I just answered the question.

This is the main problem of the debate over homosexuality in this forum. Those defending the practice act as though anything their opponents say, no matter how loving, truthful and non-judgmental is calling down fire and brimstone. I didn't judge anyone. I just presented facts.

Also, this site details that you may not use your profession to justify point of argument.

Really? I didn't know that... where does it say that? Cuz I think I may have inadvertently broken that rule a time or two. I don't recall seeing that rule, though.

However I can tell you that my information is based on the law of large numbers as is recorded for the purpose of life and health insurance - and no I do not sell either. It is information taken from a medical concencus.

Do insurance companies ask their customers their sexual orientation and practices prior to issuing policies? I wasn't aware that they did that...

I know many gay men (no I am not gay) that live very similar lives to myself. They do not go to gay bars/clubs/events or anything of the sort. They simply have a relationship with a man as I would with a woman. Some are even church goers while I am not.

I'm sorry, your anecdotal evidence is not persuasive. You know a few, you do not know all and you do not know a majority. We cannot base any conclusions on the few you know or the little you know about them.

 

[127Rockledge]

I assumed that saeph was a female.

I am not arguing from a point of view, I'm asking for burden of proof, obviously I hit up the wrong thread.