Why Is Darwinism So Dangerous? (5)

[Dizredux]

Are you serious?

I was speaking about the issue of what is a hallunination.

I was not speaking about the reality of Just's experience. I apologize to Just if I gave that impression.

Dizredux

 

[Oncedeceived]

I was speaking about the issue of what is a hallunination.

I was not speaking about the reality of Just's experience. I apologize to Just if I gave that impression.

Dizredux

That's the impression I got.

 

[Dizredux]

That's the impression I got.

I can understand and that is why I apologized, it was not meant that way but was stated clumsily. I got off into a pedantic moment.

Again Just, I sincerely apologize if I appeared to be questioning your faith experience for that was not my intention.

Dizredux

 

[bhsmte]

You're a denier all things supernatural, the spiritual realm, right?

You can assume as you wish, it appears to come quite naturally to you.

 

[DerelictJunction]

Your understanding of spiritual matters is faulty.

Which would be why I am asking these particular questions.
Well, that and I know the "Darwinist creationism" line of discussion has surely been killed by your denial of reality.

Regardless, you seem to have much understanding of spiritual matters. I brought up the idea that hallucination might be a possible explanation of your description in order for you to show me the difference between what you experienced and a hallucination.

You said that you were aware of your surroundings during the encounter with Christ, but hallucinations are not limited to experiences that completely remove a person from the fabric of reality. In fact, a small minority of hallucinations are that all encompassing.
There must be some other factor in the encounter that caused you to distinguish it from a fleeting mental disorder or a waking dream. Can you recall what it was about this experience that convinced you it was actually an encounter with a spiritual being?

 

[justlookinla]

Which would be why I am asking these particular questions.
Well, that and I know the "Darwinist creationism" line of discussion has surely been killed by your denial of reality.

Regardless, you seem to have much understanding of spiritual matters. I brought up the idea that hallucination might be a possible explanation of your description in order for you to show me the difference between what you experienced and a hallucination.

You said that you were aware of your surroundings during the encounter with Christ, but hallucinations are not limited to experiences that completely remove a person from the fabric of reality. In fact, a small minority of hallucinations are that all encompassing.
There must be some other factor in the encounter that caused you to distinguish it from a fleeting mental disorder or a waking dream. Can you recall what it was about this experience that convinced you it was actually an encounter with a spiritual being?

I can recall it like it was yesterday, even though it was 26 years ago.

It really doesn't matter what I post concerning it, there are those who will accept it, others will deny it. While there are several aspects of the encounter which were life changing, the aspect far and above the others was the pure love which emanated from Him. Indescribable.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I can recall it like it was yesterday, even though it was 26 years ago.

It really doesn't matter what I post concerning it, there are those who will accept it, others will deny it. While there are several aspects of the encounter which were life changing, the aspect far and above the others was the pure love which emanated from Him. Indescribable.

I have had plenty of pretty much indiscribable dreams. Doesn't mean they actually happened.

 

[justlookinla]

I have had plenty of pretty much indiscribable dreams. Doesn't mean they actually happened.

Ok.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Which would be why I am asking these particular questions.
Well, that and I know the "Darwinist creationism" line of discussion has surely been killed by your denial of reality.

Regardless, you seem to have much understanding of spiritual matters. I brought up the idea that hallucination might be a possible explanation of your description in order for you to show me the difference between what you experienced and a hallucination.

You said that you were aware of your surroundings during the encounter with Christ, but hallucinations are not limited to experiences that completely remove a person from the fabric of reality. In fact, a small minority of hallucinations are that all encompassing.
There must be some other factor in the encounter that caused you to distinguish it from a fleeting mental disorder or a waking dream. Can you recall what it was about this experience that convinced you it was actually an encounter with a spiritual being?

I recognize that any communication from God raises the question these days as to whether or not there is a God to create that experience and whether or not God was involved in making that particular experience.

It is a very common thing for me to be able to experience what I interpret to be the very presence of God. It comes as a feeling of pleasure, of acceptance, of fellowship. But this experience seldom involves any passing of actual information other than love and acceptance.

The times when God has actually intervened with information to communicate to me are few and far between. So of course I have thought about them in every possible way, including the question about their reality.

It is my experience that a message from God bears, within itself, an identification that the message is from God, indeed. That is, you know who is addressing you when you get it. Or, if you are in a skeptical mood, you know what your brain is telling you about the message, anyway.

It seems to me that a message from God also needs to pass the conformation with reality test. For example, God once assured me that I would be settled in a house of my own in the following year. And by a very interesting set of circumstances, with remarkable working out of complex details most of which were not in my control, I did get that house, and I live in it to this day.

It also seems to me that messages from God are going to be consistent with the moral laws we all know and should be following (although probably not perfectly). Those who strap bombs on themselves and enter marketplaces to inflict as many casualties as they can by blowing themselves up do not, in my opinion, have a God command that is really from God to do that.

For first time communications on important matters, it is perfectly OK to question God for conformation that the message is from Him. Gideon famously set out the fleece and prayed that the fleece might receive the dew while the ground is still wet. God will respect your honest inquiries for conformation about what He is trying to tell you.

But in my own experience, many such communications are along the line of instructions as which path to take in a fork in the road ahead . . . and there's no particular reality test involved except that you watch how God's plan unfolds, whatever it happens to be.

 

[DerelictJunction]

I can recall it like it was yesterday, even though it was 26 years ago.

It really doesn't matter what I post concerning it, there are those who will accept it, others will deny it. While there are several aspects of the encounter which were life changing, the aspect far and above the others was the pure love which emanated from Him. Indescribable.

What made it "life changing"?

My wife tells me she loves me and she shows that love through actions and attention she pays to me. However, I have not ever felt any love emanations from her. I know what my love for her feels like to me but I doubt that she can "feel" it. Therefore, I don't know what love emanating from someone feels like.
What does a love emanation feel like?
What aspect of the emanation from Him caused you to recognize it as "pure love" vice a regular love emanation?

 

[Oncedeceived]

I have had plenty of pretty much indiscribable dreams. Doesn't mean they actually happened.

Hey if you start dreaming when your driving, perhaps you have a condition called Narcolepsy. You really should not drive and go to the doctor immediately!

 

[Oncedeceived]

I recognize that any communication from God raises the question these days as to whether or not there is a God to create that experience and whether or not God was involved in making that particular experience.

It is a very common thing for me to be able to experience what I interpret to be the very presence of God. It comes as a feeling of pleasure, of acceptance, of fellowship. But this experience seldom involves any passing of actual information other than love and acceptance.

The times when God has actually intervened with information to communicate to me are few and far between. So of course I have thought about them in every possible way, including the question about their reality.

It is my experience that a message from God bears, within itself, an identification that the message is from God, indeed. That is, you know who is addressing you when you get it. Or, if you are in a skeptical mood, you know what your brain is telling you about the message, anyway.

It seems to me that a message from God also needs to pass the conformation with reality test. For example, God once assured me that I would be settled in a house of my own in the following year. And by a very interesting set of circumstances, with remarkable working out of complex details most of which were not in my control, I did get that house, and I live in it to this day.

It also seems to me that messages from God are going to be consistent with the moral laws we all know and should be following (although probably not perfectly). Those who strap bombs on themselves and enter marketplaces to inflict as many casualties as they can by blowing themselves up do not, in my opinion, have a God command that is really from God to do that.

For first time communications on important matters, it is perfectly OK to question God for conformation that the message is from Him. Gideon famously set out the fleece and prayed that the fleece might receive the dew while the ground is still wet. God will respect your honest inquiries for conformation about what He is trying to tell you.

But in my own experience, many such communications are along the line of instructions as which path to take in a fork in the road ahead . . . and there's no particular reality test involved except that you watch how God's plan unfolds, whatever it happens to be.

Well said. When you experience God, there is no doubt and you are never the same again. Once you know God exists, it opens up the door to many different ways of experiencing God. Awesome to say the least.

 

[Oncedeceived]

What made it "life changing"?

My wife tells me she loves me and she shows that love through actions and attention she pays to me. However, I have not ever felt any love emanations from her. I know what my love for her feels like to me but I doubt that she can "feel" it. Therefore, I don't know what love emanating from someone feels like.
What does a love emanation feel like?
What aspect of the emanation from Him caused you to recognize it as "pure love" vice a regular love emanation?

Just for a minute imagine that what we are saying is true and you then have God reveal Himself to you. Would it not change you to have the most intelligent being that exists, that could create the universe and all that is in it, present Himself to you and all you feel is peace and an overwhelming feeling of love? It changes the way you feel about yourself, it changes the way you look at others, it changes how you look about the world. You have spiritual discernment. It is like a dark hue covered things and then it becomes bright and remains that way. It changes you.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Hey if you start dreaming when your driving, perhaps you have a condition called Narcolepsy. You really should not drive and go to the doctor immediately!

 

[Atheos canadensis]

So now I am evading. IF you continue to question my motives there is no reason to continue this conversation. I said that we could for the sake of the argument claim that accurately perceiving the environment would give an organism an advantage for survival. That wasn't good enough for you. I don't know why, I was for the sake of argument giving into your point to show that your point is irrelevant to the discussion.

Bump. Hopefully you are not too offended to respond. I try to stay civil with you and I don't really think you are dishonest. I was just frustrated by the obviously erroneous claim that you had addressed the point of the analogy (see linked post).

 

[justlookinla]

I recognize that any communication from God raises the question these days as to whether or not there is a God to create that experience and whether or not God was involved in making that particular experience.

It is a very common thing for me to be able to experience what I interpret to be the very presence of God. It comes as a feeling of pleasure, of acceptance, of fellowship. But this experience seldom involves any passing of actual information other than love and acceptance.

The times when God has actually intervened with information to communicate to me are few and far between. So of course I have thought about them in every possible way, including the question about their reality.

It is my experience that a message from God bears, within itself, an identification that the message is from God, indeed. That is, you know who is addressing you when you get it. Or, if you are in a skeptical mood, you know what your brain is telling you about the message, anyway.

It seems to me that a message from God also needs to pass the conformation with reality test. For example, God once assured me that I would be settled in a house of my own in the following year. And by a very interesting set of circumstances, with remarkable working out of complex details most of which were not in my control, I did get that house, and I live in it to this day.

It also seems to me that messages from God are going to be consistent with the moral laws we all know and should be following (although probably not perfectly). Those who strap bombs on themselves and enter marketplaces to inflict as many casualties as they can by blowing themselves up do not, in my opinion, have a God command that is really from God to do that.

For first time communications on important matters, it is perfectly OK to question God for conformation that the message is from Him. Gideon famously set out the fleece and prayed that the fleece might receive the dew while the ground is still wet. God will respect your honest inquiries for conformation about what He is trying to tell you.

But in my own experience, many such communications are along the line of instructions as which path to take in a fork in the road ahead . . . and there's no particular reality test involved except that you watch how God's plan unfolds, whatever it happens to be.

This is a very very good post.

 

[Historicus]

Mod Hat On

This thread has undergone a clean-up.

Please remember the following rules about flaming:

● Please treat all members with respect and courtesy through civil dialogue.
Refrain from insulting, inflammatory, or goading remarks.
When you disagree, remember to address the content of the post and not the poster personally.

● If you are flamed, do not respond in-kind. Alert staff to the situation by utilizing the report button.
​

Mod Hat Off
​

 

[Atheos canadensis]

...

So have you abandoned this discussion or are you just busy? I hope it is the latter rather than the former.

 

[Oncedeceived]

So have you abandoned this discussion or are you just busy? I hope it is the latter rather than the former.

I was trying to decide if it was worth going on with it or not and then I got busy. Sorry.

 

[Atheos canadensis]

I was trying to decide if it was worth going on with it or not and then I got busy. Sorry.

Does that mean you plan to get to it presently or not? I hope you will at least address the parsimony argument illustrated by the analogy as this is central to answering your question of how evolution could be expected to produce accurate faculties. Note that this is distinct from the point that accurate faculties improve fitness.