Why is Christianity declining?

rebornfree said:

Didn't your Church have midweek meetings: Prayer, Bible Study, outreach events, etc.?

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No, and to me, that's the main problem. Churches have ONE meeting on Sunday morning and that's IT. If there would be more opportunities for engagement other than 10AM Sunday, they might reach more people. Between work, life, etc., sometimes that one hour a week is not a viable option.

In the words of Nirvana: "HEY! WAIT! I got a new complaint!"
Another issue is credibility. Right now, I just got done listening to about the 97th instance in my lifetime of some preacher telling me from the pulpit that he was diagnosed with cancer and to come back in a month for a follow-up.
When he went back a month later after "worshiping and exercising his faith" VOILA!! Cancer free, and the doctor tells them "I can't find a trace of ti anywhere..."
I've heard this story too many times from too many preachers nearly word-for-word.

FireDragon76 said:

I don't think the issue is hypocrisy per se, but a lack off intellectual humility, in people like Ray Comfort. Many people would just look at somebody like Ray Comfort and see somebody that's a sincere but naive salesman who doesn't necessarily know what he's talking about.

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"Sincere but naive salesman" is exactly how I'd describe nearly every evangelical I've ever met

I just found this thread and would like to ask if anyone has presented a graph showing the decline? That would help me understand the issue better.

I believe that the Christian religion is growing significantly in other parts of the world for instance in China and Nepal.

Islam is also increasing, but it does not seem to be increasing in America as far as American converts.

The only other thing that is increasing in America is apparently non religious or maybe paganism or scientific materialism (atheism). Perhaps some see that as a good thing but it could be a sign of decline as America seems to have many problems. If there is an increase in eastern religions, some of those religious attributes have similarities to the Christian religion, especially if compared to the original Asian interpretations. In America however it may get converted into a more paganistic bent. Paganism in the west has many decadent aspects historically so that seems to be a negative thing

Scientific materialism is a false belief because it believes that if you can’t prove spirit exists then it doesn’t exist. That is not a proof that it doesn’t exist, it’s just a mental construct and not scientific. I believe there is evidence of massive floods and destruction but exactly how and when it occurred I am not sure but Randal Carlson for instance has covered a great deal of that which is probably denied by some archeologists but he seems to present a lot of good evidence

I found this report from the Pew Research Center concerning trends in the United States. It has a couple of informative graps...

B Griffin said:

I found this report from the Pew Research Center concerning trends in the United States. It has a couple of informative graps...

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I work with and am friendly with folks who are "no religion", and most of them are more affable than the ones who are staunch Christians.

Some Christians believe they have a license to act like a total jackass and tick people off because.....well....."Jesus said we would be hated".

Nick Moser said:

Why is Christianity declining both in membership and in clergy? Even the more conservative branches of Christianity such as Orthodoxy and the more conservative branches of Catholicism and Protestantism is declining...

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As a person who has lived a long lifetime of intimacy with the Spirit of God who lives in my heart, I can say a big AMEN to Jesus' prayer in the Garden when He said, "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent." (Jn 17:3) Knowing God personally and intimately is truly the greatest blessing of salvation here on earth, and my sure hope is that my relationship with Him will be innumerably better in heaven.

If our ministries were focused on helping people achieve and grow in an intimate personal relationship with the Lord God Almighty, then we would not have a problem keeping the pews filled.

Worldwide growth trend

seeking.IAM said:

Worldwide growth trend

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What does this mean to you?

MForbes said:

What does this mean to you?

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Despite declines in the U.S., the #s of Christians worldwide appears to be on a growth trajectory, although at a lesser rate than population growth. Or, raw numbers are up while Christian percentage of total population appears to be down. We are not about to run out of Christians yet.

Here is a video about the sociologist Rodney Stark questioning the secularization hypothesis, the notion that developed nations are becoming less religious. According to Stark, western societies have never been fully Christianized and have always had a great deal of religious indifference and low formal religious participation.

MForbes said:

Some Christians believe they have a license to act like a total jackass and tick people off because.....well....."Jesus said we would be hated".

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Some think that when they preach, they can just tick people off and act like a "jackass", but this is not what the bible says.

• 1 Peter 3:15-16 (ESV): "But in your hearts honour Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defence to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, having a good conscience, so that, when you are slandered, those who revile your good behaviour in Christ may be put to shame."
• Colossians 4:5-6 (ESV): "Walk in wisdom toward outsiders, making the best use of the time. Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person."
• 2 Timothy 2:24-25 (ESV): "And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth."
• James 3:17 (ESV): "But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere."

2 Timothy 2:24 is a great verse because many believers think that you cannot point out an unbeliever's wrongdoing. But the verse says, "correcting his opponents with gentleness". To show someone how they are sinning against God is truly loving them and we should do it with gentleness. Not yelling or condemning them. They may not like it when it is pointed out, but it is better than leaving them in a state where they are unaware. A lot of believers do not understand this and so they choose not to show people their sins. But this is showing love. It is like your young teenager who wants to go off to a party and you know that there are going to be drugs and alcohol there. You tell your child that they are not allowed to go, and they then get angry at you. But you have done the right thing because you showed love to your child, and you did it with gentleness and respect.

B Griffin said:

If our ministries were focused on helping people achieve and grow in an intimate personal relationship with the Lord God Almighty, then we would not have a problem keeping the pews filled.

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Agreed. But they need to hear of Him first. How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?

FireDragon76 said:

Vietnam and Watergate probably had something to do with that. It was shocking to a generation that had been raised to believe in a postwar technocratic management of progress. Also, religious leaders at the time, even some in relatively liberal mainline Protestant churches, as well as many Catholic clergy, either backed Vietnam, or supported the realpolitik that made it possible.

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I believe that. It wasn't just the war but the protests against the war, "free love" and mind consciousness expansion. People grew their hair long and totally rejected the conformity of their parents who went through the trials of WWII. Before that it was like if you were different, not just a different race but leather jackets, bikers, greasers, and rock and roll. Ever since then, the younger people in the subsequent "generations" x,z,milleneal, and whatever other ones they got going. None of these had any interest in conforming to "social norms" until rebellion became the social norm. People get older and they learn that to get ahead financially (when they need to pay for mortgages and babies). Conformity may get you that promotion over the rebel. It does seem though that it's the rebels that start up these corporations that use brand new tech and workplace philosophies that adhere more to individualistic thinking. Just a thought.

rturner76 said:

Ever since then, the younger people in the subsequent "generations" x,z,milleneal, and whatever other ones they got going. None of these had any interest in conforming to "social norms" until rebellion became the social norm.

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Gen X'er here.

If I followed the script I'd be worrying about the economy, wrapped up in politics, concerned about retirement and related issues. Bucking the norm brought peace of mind and financial freedom. I wouldn't trade places with anyone.

rturner76 said:

It does seem though that it's the rebels that start up these corporations that use brand new tech and workplace philosophies that adhere more to individualistic thinking. Just a thought.

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Most ventures are created by nonconformists. You have to think outside the box to see opportunities others miss. When users started creating content on the Internet many laughed and told them to get a job. Now seniors are getting side hustles too. I guess the naysayers were wrong.

~bella

1Tonne said:

Agreed. But they need to hear of Him first. How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?

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And how shall thay preach unless they are sent? Great passage. It all starts with a vibrant intimate personal relationship with the One who lives in us. Hearing Him, trusting Him, and walking where He leads solves all our problems, including evangelism and retention.

actionsub said:

No, and to me, that's the main problem. Churches have ONE meeting on Sunday morning and that's IT. If there would be more opportunities for engagement other than 10AM Sunday, they might reach more people. Between work, life, etc., sometimes that one hour a week is not a viable option.

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That's a pity. Midweek meetings are so valuable in building up the fellowship and outreach events are important in
saving the lost. Maybe praying that the Lord would free up people's time would help. Also people making God and His Kingdom their first priority, if they are not already doing so. Matthew 6 v 19 onwards is a good passage and v 33 is an absolute promise if we get our priorities right.

bèlla said:

Most ventures are created by nonconformists. You have to think outside the box to see opportunities others miss. When users started creating content on the Internet many laughed and told them to get a job. Now seniors are getting side hustles too. I guess the naysayers were wrong.

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Considering the positive aspects of the new "free" America, (by that I mean the newer ideas, social norms etc.). with more emphasis on new workplace etiquette, and policy that encourage freedom of personal choice and lifestyle. Are the advances in the areas of less conformity, more personal freedom and consideration of the strength of being an individual with the higher divrce rates, depression and mental illness rates, and the decline in religious practice?

This dilemma truly confuses me. While I love our generation's freedom of choice (fellow Gen X'r), the lack of pressure to conform to the (norm), the emergence of a higher number of women graduating college than men, the independence of the women and less and fewer racist practices in institutions among other things. There has also been a downside in certain areas. Back when there was a lot of pressure to adhere to Judeao-Christian values, more marriages stayed together providing more parental and the community's positive nurturing influence on their children's morals Also it seems that in Christian-led communities raise their children more slowly. They are more likely to be sheltered from things like teen pregnancy, dropping out of school, staying in church, and other things that relate to Christian mores.

My confusion comes with the questions Is it better to shelter your children and not allow exposure to alternative ideas and ways of life or is it better to provide as much information you can and let the children find their way? I see positives in both scereos. I would be curious how you see this contrast in society?

rturner76 said:

Are the advances in the areas of less conformity, more personal freedom and consideration of the strength of being an individual with the higher divrce rates, depression and mental illness rates, and the decline in religious practice?

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The answer depends on whether you're applying it yourself and others in your circle or the collective as you've done. The statistics you've cited wouldn't apply to me or those I'm acquainted with operating businesses in this medium. Just because others fell short or experience struggles doesn't mean it wasn't beneficial for someone else.

rturner76 said:

Back when there was a lot of pressure to adhere to Judeao-Christian values, more marriages stayed together providing more parental and the community's positive nurturing influence on their children's morals

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I don't require pressure to marry or remain in the union. That's a matter of commitment and the abdication of responsibility is boggling. Society shouldn't have to force anyone to value their families. Nor am I interested in community input for child rearing. Which supposes they're knowledgeable and most results are questionable to say the least. There's a lot of parental failures and I see it. We're just unwilling to admit it. The results speak for themselves.

rturner76 said:

Also it seems that in Christian-led communities raise their children more slowly. They are more likely to be sheltered from things like teen pregnancy, dropping out of school, staying in church, and other things that relate to Christian mores.

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I was reared in a Christian home but we weren't entrenched in communities nor was my daughter. My grandparents valued family most and the preservation of ideals for future generations. They weren't in bible studies or small groups. They created their own networks and participated in charitable events at church. We never employed the village principle. That was the domain of loved ones and trusted friends.

I was the same to some degree but narrower. I had a vision in mind and didn't allow anything to stand in my way whether they agreed or not and it surprised them. I didn't need a roadmap. I knew how to draft my own and bring it to fruition. They sat back and watched and as the years passed we eclipsed them all. It didn't go unrecognized. They told me I did a great job and praised our success.

rturner76 said:

My confusion comes with the questions Is it better to shelter your children and not allow exposure to alternative ideas and ways of life or is it better to provide as much information you can and let the children find their way? I see positives in both scereos. I would be curious how you see this contrast in society?

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There's a post on the single's forum you might be interested in. I shared my approach to the marriage talk with my daughter.

As for your question, it's important to tell the truth and admit your failings. That's how you earn their trust and respect. When you can call yourself out in their presence and admit you dropped the ball they'll be more receptive to the same. Emulate the qualities you desire in your offspring.

Age appropriate discussions are best. When you're discussing difficult subjects you must be willing to listen and allow them to share what they've heard or encountered firsthand. Some parents are always in teaching mode and after a while it sounds like a lecture. And their emotional intelligence is lacking.

It's helpful if you've established a familial ethos beforehand which should happen in early ages. There must be a clear distinction of 'we' in their psyche that's grounded in biblical teachings and familial expectations. It becomes their blueprint if you do it right.

We had 10 commandments she wasn't allowed to transgress and they weren't on the original list. They're an outgrowth of behavioral missteps that have cataclysmic consequences that she understood and agreed to. On a topic like homosexuality, we weren't wholly reliant on the biblical perspective on the subject. You need a natural application too. Which requires a deep regard for consequences and continual exercises in decisionmaking.

Aesop and The Children's Book of Virtues are good resources as are films. We'd watch them together and have Q and A sessions throughout. What was his mistake? What would you do differently? What did you learn from the experience and so on. The practice fosters discrimination, discernment and wisdom. You can do the same with the bible and take them through proverbs when they're older.

If you're conversant in spiritual warfare you can weave defensive prayers within the lessons and teach them how to pray intentionally and stand against their impediments on the spiritual plane. From birth to twelve is the time for girding. That's when the shaping occurs. The period that follows is for refinement and customized instruction.

It's imperative they understand offenses on a natural and spiritual plane, consequences for both and the remedy for its removal. The number one quality required for Christian parents is an ability to pray. You should be able to pray anything in or out of your home and understand your authority in that respect. Heaven moves on prayer and worship. Master them first then tackle the others. You'll alleviate a lot of problems by doing so.

~bella