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Why is Christianity declining?

Nick Moser

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Why is Christianity declining both in membership and in clergy? Even the more conservative branches of Christianity such as Orthodoxy and the more conservative branches of Catholicism and Protestantism is declining although not as rapidly as the more liberal and heretical branches. Although Islam (prelest that combines Moon paganism with heretical forms of Christianity), which like Mormonism and Judaism is a cheap imitations of Christianity, is not declining.
 

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It's a dozen years old by now, but I think there is still something to this post by Rachel Held Evans titled "How to win a culture war and lose a generation". In sum, Christianity is seen by the younger generations and the vast majority of non-Christians as more "anti-gay" than "pro-anything" (as well as being seen as "judgmental", "too involved in politics", etc.).
 
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rturner76

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I think that since the 1960's more and more people do not want to be told how to live and the spirit of rebellion and non-conformity has taken root in most secular societies. Back in the day there wasn't just pressure on people to go to church but to dress a certain way, act a certain way, and do their best to fit in. The 60's destroyed all of that and it became more fashionable and convenient and easier to do whatever you want and not respect any authority other than your own conscience. Every generation since gets more and more "free" and wants less and less to do with conforming to anyone's standards but their own.
 
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HTacianas

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Why is Christianity declining both in membership and in clergy? Even the more conservative branches of Christianity such as Orthodoxy and the more conservative branches of Catholicism and Protestantism is declining although not as rapidly as the more liberal and heretical branches. Although Islam (prelest that combines Moon paganism with heretical forms of Christianity), which like Mormonism and Judaism is a cheap imitations of Christianity, is not declining.
Rev 20:7 - And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Rev 20:8 - And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
 
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I think it is because there are apparent issues within the Bible that are not properly addressed.

Today, with modern science, it is becoming hard to reconcile things such as the age of the Earth, a global flood, and evolution with the Bible.

As somebody who has been a Christian for 15 years and served as a full-time minister for a few of those... those are the sources of doubts that I have among others.
 
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Merrill

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I think it is because there are apparent issues within the Bible that are not properly addressed.

Today, with modern science, it is becoming hard to reconcile things such as the age of the Earth, a global flood, and evolution with the Bible.

As somebody who has been a Christian for 15 years and served as a full-time minister for a few of those... those are the sources of doubts that I have among others.
Even among denominations which accept old-earth history (Catholicism, Lutheranism, etc.), there is still declining membership.

Evolution is more of an issue, but I don't think it is science that makes people lose faith
 
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1Tonne

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There are several reasons why the church is shrinking.

1. I believe fewer people are coming to faith because we have elevated friendship evangelism over proclamation evangelism. We trust more in the power of friendship than we do in the power of the spoken Gospel. In many churches, instead of teaching people how to be bold to go to those we do not know, we have taught people to be friends with others and then invite the unbeliever to church so that they may hear the Gospel. Then when they do come, they make friends with others, and they then stay. They hear how we live, pray and worship and then they learn to mimic us without coming to the foot of the cross. They are fake Christians. So, we have filled the church with people who then get into leadership and the cycle continues. The church gets weaker and weaker, weaker and weaker. Don’t get me wrong, I believe we are to do friendship evangelism, but it should not be elevated above proclamation as the main form of evangelism. Friendship evangelism is simply a part of everyday life. We make friends and then if we get the opportunity to share the Gospel, we do. It is not going out of our way for the Gospel's sake nor our neighbour's sake. We are leaving those we don’t know to perish.

Interestingly, Jesus only had a very short time with the disciples. Just 3 and a half years. Teaching them so that they would be able to share the Gospel and weather the persecution up until death. Today we do the opposite. Churches these days spend a lifetime teaching believers to be friends with others so that they will not have to face persecution while sharing.

2. Sadly, I see little of the equipping of the saints to be able to go out and speak the Gospel to the lost.
I have asked many believers what the Gospel is, and many cannot say it. Some will say it is simply “Jesus” and leave the Gospel with that simple statement. Others have said that the Gospel is the Bible. But to be honest, the bible is really bad news for the majority of the world. After all, it says that all liars will have their part in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone. That is really bad news. The Bible does contain the good news, but we need to learn how to relay it to the unbeliever so that they see the seriousness of the situation.
A believer who has not been taught how to use the weapon of the Gospel is like a soldier who goes into battle with a feather duster. He will be terrified, unable to move and very ineffective. The church needs to train its soldiers to be able to use the weapon of the Gospel to save those outside the four walls of the church.

-The early disciples were fishers of men. While Modern disciples are often little more than aquarium keepers.
-- The world is not so much hardened to the gospel as it is ignorant of the gospel because the gospel is not being preached.
Paul Washer
-Could a mariner sit idle if he heard the drowning cry? Could a doctor sit in comfort and just let his patients die? Could a fireman sit idle, let men burn and give no hand? Can you sit at ease in Zion with the world around you damned?” Leonard Ravenhill
- It has always been difficult to understand those evangelical Christians who…say they serve the Lord, but they divide their days as to leave plenty of time to play and relax and enjoy the pleasures of this world. They are at ease while the world burns. A. W. Tozer

3. We no longer use the Law in Gospel proclamation.
TV and the internet have influenced people. We see wrong things regularly and so we get used to them and then over time, our conscience gets weaker and weaker. So many unbelievers do not think that the wrong they do is that bad. They think that they are good people. Why do they need Jesus to pay the price for their sins if they are good people? It does not make sense. That is why Jesus used the law to share the Gospel (See Mark 10:17-22). Because many proclaimed their own goodness. The law shows a person their sin and how they have fallen short of God's standards. Then once they see the seriousness of the situation, they will then appreciate the cure. The church no longer does this. Many believe that if we show a person their sins, then it will scare an unbeliever away from God. But there are many examples of Godly people in the bible who showed others their sins. From Jesus and Moses to Noah (2 Peter 2:5), Jeremiah and even Timothy and Paul. In 2 Corinthians it says that they “Commended themselves to every man’s conscience”. We need to start using the Law. Psalms 19:7 says, “The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul…” If the law is perfect at converting the soul, then why would we not use it? There is no better tool.

I think it is because there are apparent issues within the Bible that are not properly addressed.

Today, with modern science, it is becoming hard to reconcile things such as the age of the Earth, a global flood, and evolution with the Bible.

As somebody who has been a Christian for 15 years and served as a full-time minister for a few of those... those are the sources of doubts that I have among others.
There are no apparent issues in the bible that contradict true science. However, there are apparent issues in science that contradict the truth. Especially when scientists make up a theory that has no scientific evidence, and then it is taught as science. e.g. evolution.
Check out Answers in Genesis. These people are a bunch of scientists who start with the premise that the bible is correct. Their conclusions make sense. Answers in Genesis
Also, you may like the Atheist Delusion. It shows how evolution is fake by using very, very simple logic. That simple it is laughable.
 
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rockytopva

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Two stories from the same man.

1. The Torture - In which causes the decline
2. The Breakthrough - In which causes the progress


1. The Torture - "Grandfather was kind to me and considerate of me, yet he was strict with me. I worked along with him in the field when the weather was agreeable and when it was inclement I helped him in his hatter's shop, for the Civil War was in progress and he had returned at odd times to hatmaking. It was my business in the shop to stretch foxskins and coonskins across a wood-horse and with a knife, made for that purpose, pluck the hair from the fur. I despise the odor of foxskins and coonskins to this good day. He had me to walk two miles every Sunday to Dandridge to Church service and Sunday-school, rain or shine, wet or dry, cold or hot; yet he had fat horses standing in his stable. But he was such a blue-stocking Presbyterian that he never allowed a bridle to go on a horse's head on Sunday. The beasts had to have a day of rest. Old Doctor Minnis was the pastor, and he was the dryest and most interminable preacher I ever heard in my life. He would stand motionless and read his sermons from manuscript for one hour and a half at a time and sometimes longer. Grandfather would sit and never take his eyes off of him, except to glance at me to keep me quiet. It was torture to me." - George Clark Rankin

2. The Breakthrough - GC Rankin had to move to his uncles after his grandfathers death... In the course of an hour I was at my uncle's. He was surprised to see me, but gave me a cordial welcome. The first thing he did was to disarm me, and that ended my pistol-toting. I have never had one about my person or home to this good day. And I never will understand just why I had that one. A good dinner refreshed me and I soon unfolded my plans and they were satisfactory to my kind-hearted kinsman. He was in the midst of cotton-picking and that afternoon I went to the field and, with a long sack about my waist, had my first experience in the cottonfield. We then would get ready for the revival occurring that night…

After the team had been fed and we had been to supper we put the mules to the wagon, filled it with chairs and we were off to the meeting. When we reached the locality it was about dark and the people were assembling. Their horses and wagons filled up the cleared spaces and the singing was already in progress. My uncle and his family went well up toward the front, but I dropped into a seat well to the rear. It was an old-fashioned Church, ancient in appearance, oblong in shape and unpretentious. It was situated in a grove about one hundred yards from the road. It was lighted with old tallow-dip candles furnished by the neighbors. It was not a prepossessing-looking place, but it was soon crowded and evidently there was a great deal of interest. A cadaverous-looking man stood up in front with a tuning fork and raised and led the songs. There were a few prayers and the minister came in with his saddlebags and entered the pulpit. He was the Rev. W. H. Heath, the circuit rider. His prayer impressed me with his earnestness and there were many amens to it in the audience. I do not remember his text, but it was a typical revival sermon, full of unction and power.

At its close he invited penitents to the altar and a great many young people flocked to it and bowed for prayer. Many of them became very much affected and they cried out distressingly for mercy. It had a strange effect on me. It made me nervous and I wanted to retire. Directly my uncle came back to me, put his arm around my shoulder and asked me if I did not want to be religious. I told him that I had always had that desire, that mother had brought me up that way, and really I did not know anything else. Then he wanted to know if I had ever professed religion. I hardly understood what he meant and did not answer him. He changed his question and asked me if I had ever been to the altar for prayer, and I answered him in the negative. Then he earnestly besought me to let him take me up to the altar and join the others in being prayed for. It really embarrassed me and I hardly knew what to say to him. He spoke to me of my mother and said that when she was a little girl she went to the altar and that Christ accepted her and she had been a good Christian all these years. That touched me in a tender spot, for mother always did do what was right; and then I was far away from her and wanted to see her. Oh, if she were there to tell me what to do!

By and by I yielded to his entreaty and he led forward to the altar. The minister took me by the hand and spoke tenderly to me as I knelt at the altar. I had gone more out of sympathy than conviction, and I did not know what to do after I bowed there. The others were praying aloud and now and then one would rise shoutingly happy and make the old building ring with his glad praise. It was a novel experience to me. I did not know what to pray for, neither did I know what to expect if I did pray. I spent the most of the hour wondering why I was there and what it all meant. No one explained anything to me. Once in awhile some good old brother or sister would pass my way, strike me on the back and tell me to look up and believe and the blessing would come. But that was not encouraging to me. In fact, it sounded like nonsense and the noise was distracting me. Even in my crude way of thinking I had an idea that religion was a sensible thing and that people ought to become religious intelligently and without all that hurrah. I presume that my ideas were the result of the Presbyterian training given to me by old grandfather. By and by my knees grew tired and the skin was nearly rubbed off my elbows. I thought the service never would close, and when it did conclude with the benediction I heaved a sigh of relief. That was my first experience at the mourner's bench.

As we drove home I did not have much to say, but I listened attentively to the conversation between my uncle and his wife. They were greatly impressed with the meeting, and they spoke first of this one and that one who had "come through" and what a change it would make in the community, as many of them were bad boys. As we were putting up the team my uncle spoke very encouragingly to me; he was delighted with the step I had taken and he pleaded with me not to turn back, but to press on until I found the pearl of great price. He knew my mother would be very happy over the start I had made. Before going to sleep I fell into a train of thought, though I was tired and exhausted. I wondered why I had gone to that altar and what I had gained by it. I felt no special conviction and had received no special impression, but then if my mother had started that way there must be something in it, for she always did what was right. I silently lifted my heart to God in prayer for conviction and guidance. I knew how to pray, for I had come up through prayer, but not the mourner's bench sort. So I determined to continue to attend the meeting and keep on going to the altar until I got religion.

Early the next morning I was up and in a serious frame of mind. I went with the other hands to the cottonfield and at noon I slipped off in the barn and prayed. But the more I thought of the way those young people were moved in the meeting and with what glad hearts they had shouted their praises to God the more it puzzled and confused me. I could not feel the conviction that they had and my heart did not feel melted and tender. I was callous and unmoved in feeling and my distress on account of sin was nothing like theirs. I did not understand my own state of mind and heart. It troubled me, for by this time I really wanted to have an experience like theirs.

When evening came I was ready for Church service and was glad to go. It required no urging. Another large crowd was present and the preacher was as earnest as ever. I did not give much heed to the sermon. In fact, I do not recall a word of it. I was anxious for him to conclude and give me a chance to go to the altar. I had gotten it into my head that there was some real virtue in the mourner's bench; and when the time came I was one of the first to prostrate myself before the altar in prayer. Many others did likewise. Two or three good people at intervals knelt by me and spoke encouragingly to me, but they did not help me. Their talks were mere exhortations to earnestness and faith, but there was no explanation of faith, neither was there any light thrown upon my mind and heart. I wrought myself up into tears and cries for help, but the whole situation was dark and I hardly knew why I cried, or what was the trouble with me. Now and then others would arise from the altar in an ecstasy of joy, but there was no joy for me. When the service closed I was discouraged and felt that maybe I was too hardhearted and the good Spirit could do nothing for me.

After we went home I tossed on the bed before going to sleep and wondered why God did not do for me what he had done for mother and what he was doing in that meeting for those young people at the altar. I could not understand it. But I resolved to keep on trying, and so dropped off to sleep. The next day I had about the same experience and at night saw no change in my condition. And so for several nights I repeated the same distressing experience. The meeting took on such interest that a day service was adopted along with the night exercises, and we attended that also. And one morning while I bowed at the altar in a very disturbed state of mind Brother Tyson, a good local preacher and the father of Rev. J. F. Tyson, now of the Central Conference, sat down by me and, putting his hand on my shoulder, said to me: "Now I want you to sit up awhile and let's talk this matter over quietly. I am sure that you are in earnest, for you have been coming to this altar night after night for several days. I want to ask you a few simple questions." And the following questions were asked and answered:

"My son, do you not love God?"
"I cannot remember when I did not love him."
"Do you believe on his Son, Jesus Christ?"
"I have always believed on Christ. My mother taught me that from my earliest recollection."
"Do you accept him as your Savior?"
"I certainly do, and have always done so."
"Can you think of any sin that is between you and the Savior?"
"No, sir; for I have never committed any bad sins."
"Do you love everybody?"
"Well, I love nearly everybody, but I have no ill-will toward any one. An old man did me a wrong not long ago and I acted ugly toward him, but I do not care to injure him."
"Can you forgive him?"
"Yes, if he wanted me to."
"But, down in your heart, can you wish him well?"
"Yes, sir; I can do that."

"Well, now let me say to you that if you love God, if you accept Jesus Christ as your Savior from sin and if you love your fellowmen and intend by God's help to lead a religious life, that's all there is to religion. In fact, that is all I know about it."

Then he repeated several passages of Scriptures to me proving his assertions. I thought a moment and said to him: "But I do not feel like these young people who have been getting religion night after night. I cannot get happy like them. I do not feel like shouting."

The good man looked at me and smiled and said: "Ah, that's your trouble. You have been trying to feel like them. Now you are not them; you are yourself. You have your own quiet disposition and you are not turned like them. They are excitable and blustery like they are. They give way to their feelings. That's all right, but feeling is not religion. Religion is faith and life. If you have violent feeling with it, all good and well, but if you have faith and not much feeling, why the feeling will take care of itself. To love God and accept Jesus Christ as your Savior, turning away from all sin, and living a godly life, is the substance of true religion."

That was new to me, yet it had been my state of mind from childhood. For I remembered that away back in my early life, when the old preacher held services in my grandmother's house one day and opened the door of the Church, I went forward and gave him my hand. He was to receive me into full membership at the end of six months' probation, but he let it pass out of his mind and failed to attend to it.

As I sat there that morning listening to the earnest exhortation of the good man my tears ceased, my distress left me, light broke in upon my mind, my heart grew joyous, and before I knew just what I was doing I was going all around shaking hands with everybody, and my confusion and darkness disappeared and a great burden rolled off my spirit. I felt exactly like I did when I was a little boy around my mother's knee when she told of Jesus and God and Heaven. It made my heart thrill then, and the same old experience returned to me in that old country Church that beautiful September morning down in old North Georgia.

I at once gave my name to the preacher for membership in the Church, and the following Sunday morning, along with many others, he received me into full membership in the Methodist Episcopal Church, South. It was one of the most delightful days in my recollection. It was the third Sunday in September, 1866, and those Church vows became a living principle in my heart and life. During these forty-five long years, with their alternations of sunshine and shadow, daylight and darkness, success and failure, rejoicing and weeping, fears within and fightings without, I have never ceased to thank God for that autumnal day in the long ago when my name was registered in the Lamb's Book of Life.
 
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doughtz

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Even among denominations which accept old-earth history (Catholicism, Lutheranism, etc.), there is still declining membership.

Evolution is more of an issue, but I don't think it is science that makes people lose faith
Except old earth theology doesn’t really answer the question well. So accepting it doesn’t help. I believe there was a recent survey done and scientific revelation has been a large reason for the decline. I think Barna group or somebody did the survey.
 
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Merrill

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I don't pretend to have all the answers, but some things to consider:

1. Our society is uncomfortable with Sin and imperfection. People in this country lead these postcard-gloss, public lives, and do not tolerate criticism, shame, etc. They want to accept and affirm everyone and everything, abstain from judgment, and hold themselves up to be virtuous and righteous. And all of this is nonsense: we are sinners, we an incomplete, we are in need of salvation, and we need to drop the masks.

"Feel-Good" Christianity is false doctrine. Prosperity Gospel, extreme Charismatic faiths, etc. -- all of this elevates man above God (or at least equal to), and trivializes the Gospel

If people don't need the faith, they simply won't show up, and if church becomes a social club, it won't last

2. The faith needs to be hard. Churches, pastors, etc. need to reach out to congregants, make demands, ask them to help, etc. 100 Luke-warm and uninvolved congregants are not worth 2-3 committed, dedicated Christians. Pastors cannot be afraid of turning people off or making them angry. Again, this isn't a social club.

3. If the church bows to secular authority and allows itself to be influenced and swayed by secular movements and ideology, it will fail. We see this in denominations that are losing members by the day. A good example is the Presbyterian Church, which has lost almost 50% of its members in 20 years and has seen many church closings.
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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2. Sadly, I see little of the equipping of the saints to be able to go out and speak the Gospel to the lost.
I have asked many believers what the Gospel is, and many cannot say it.
Maybe because they cannot see it lived with joy and peace.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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I don't pretend to have all the answers, but some things to consider:

1. Our society is uncomfortable with Sin and imperfection. People in this country lead these postcard-gloss, public lives, and do not tolerate criticism, shame, etc. They want to accept and affirm everyone and everything, abstain from judgment, and hold themselves up to be virtuous and righteous. And all of this is nonsense: we are sinners, we an incomplete, we are in need of salvation, and we need to drop the masks.

"Feel-Good" Christianity is false doctrine. Prosperity Gospel, extreme Charismatic faiths, etc. -- all of this elevates man above God (or at least equal to), and trivializes the Gospel

If people don't need the faith, they simply won't show up, and if church becomes a social club, it won't last

2. The faith needs to be hard. Churches, pastors, etc. need to reach out to congregants, make demands, ask them to help, etc. 100 Luke-warm and uninvolved congregants are not worth 2-3 committed, dedicated Christians. Pastors cannot be afraid of turning people off or making them angry. Again, this isn't a social club.

3. If the church bows to secular authority and allows itself to be influenced and swayed by secular movements and ideology, it will fail. We see this in denominations that are losing members by the day. A good example is the Presbyterian Church, which has lost almost 50% of its members in 20 years and has seen many church closings.

.... some of the problem, too, is that too many preachers are basically unqualified to be pastors and, what's more, know next to nothing about human psychology, but then go on to lambast folks into emotional oblivion with falsely applied guilt-tripping on the merest vagaries (along with hiding their own hypocrisies).

This probably needs to be shored up before more pastors commence on getting into people's faces unjustifiably, as has been the case in my own family's experiences at "church."
 
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2PhiloVoid

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I don't pretend to have all the answers, but some things to consider:

1. Our society is uncomfortable with Sin and imperfection. People in this country lead these postcard-gloss, public lives, and do not tolerate criticism, shame, etc. They want to accept and affirm everyone and everything, abstain from judgment, and hold themselves up to be virtuous and righteous. And all of this is nonsense: we are sinners, we an incomplete, we are in need of salvation, and we need to drop the masks.

"Feel-Good" Christianity is false doctrine. Prosperity Gospel, extreme Charismatic faiths, etc. -- all of this elevates man above God (or at least equal to), and trivializes the Gospel

If people don't need the faith, they simply won't show up, and if church becomes a social club, it won't last

2. The faith needs to be hard. Churches, pastors, etc. need to reach out to congregants, make demands, ask them to help, etc. 100 Luke-warm and uninvolved congregants are not worth 2-3 committed, dedicated Christians. Pastors cannot be afraid of turning people off or making them angry. Again, this isn't a social club.

3. If the church bows to secular authority and allows itself to be influenced and swayed by secular movements and ideology, it will fail. We see this in denominations that are losing members by the day. A good example is the Presbyterian Church, which has lost almost 50% of its members in 20 years and has seen many church closings.

.... also, IF any of what is transpiring today is a part of the Falling Away, assuming that "someone's eschatology" is correct, then no amount of regrouping, revamping, revising or other reforming Christians in their respective denominations will do much to alter the current course the world is on. I'm thinking that rather than having an expression of faith that looks like doubling down politically and circling the wagons, and also rather than capitulating to the World Zeitgeist, we should be buckling ourselves in for a bumpy ride .............................
 
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Merrill

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.... some of the problem, too, is that too many preachers are basically unqualified to be pastors and, what's more, know next to nothing about human psychology, but then go on to lambast folks into emotional oblivion with falsely applied guilt-tripping on the merest vagaries (along with hiding their own hypocrisies).

This probably needs to be shored up before more pastors commence on getting into people's faces unjustifiably, as has been the case in my own family's experiences at "church."
There are plenty of unqualified pastors out there I am sure, but I haven't seen to much guilt-tripping

I imagine that happens a bit more in the southern US

I am curious: what pastors confronted your family (got in their face) and why?
 
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2PhiloVoid

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There are plenty of unqualified pastors out there I am sure, but I haven't seen to much guilt-tripping

I imagine that happens a bit more in the southern US

I am curious: what pastors confronted your family (got in their face) and why?

I had two pastors who got into the face of my wife for essentially the very things that you cited above. They had a preconceived notion about what "participating in the body of the church" HAD TO BE according to some concocted and supposed charismatic vision they had. So, rather than getting to know my wife, her background, her outlook on life and what she perceived to be her obligations in the church, they proceeded instead to throw scriptures at her, doing so in a more or less humiliating way, demanding she shut up and obey.

... and there was a lot of that sort of thing going on at that church. In short, it was simply a church full of dysfunctionals who, as it turned out, couldn't even keep their own marriages together, let alone lead the flock with grace, mercy and insight "by the Power of the Holy Spirit."

What a travesty!! How pathetic!

As for myself, I can put up with that sort of crap because I just think people are human and sometimes prone to stupidity, even when they're leading in churches. But for the fact that it took a lot for me just to get my son and wife to go to church in the first place and then to have those leaders say stupid things that then made my wife and son feel uncomfortable and not want to go church much, if at all, hacked me off. .... and if they don't go, it's difficult for me to go.
 
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Fervent

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There are multiple factors, one of the most prevalent ones that comes to mind is that a message of guilt and forgiveness became deeply ingrained as "the gospel" in a way that became largely irrelevant to people. Western culture is fast morphing into a shame-based culture where peer influence is greater than influence of authorities, and the message of inherited guilt just doesn't connect in any way that is meaningful. In order for people to seek Jesus, they have to first realize they have a problem. But too often the solution offered has no bearing on the kinds of problems that people face in their lives. Combined with the various toxic social dynamics that happen in insular communities, and people simply find it easier to walk away than to bother.
 
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Merrill

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I had two pastors who got into the face of my wife for essentially the very things that you cited above. They had a preconceived notion about what "participating in the body of the church" HAD TO BE according to some concocted and supposed charismatic vision they had. So, rather than getting to know my wife, her background, her outlook on life and what she perceived to be her obligations in the church, they proceeded instead to throw scriptures at her, doing so in a more or less humiliating way, demanding she shut up and obey.

... and there was a lot of that sort of thing going on at that church. In short, it was simply a church full of dysfunctionals who, as it turned out, couldn't even keep their own marriages together, let alone lead the flock with grace, mercy and insight "by the Power of the Holy Spirit."

What a travesty!! How pathetic!

As for myself, I can put up with that sort of crap because I just think people are human and sometimes prone to stupidity, even when they're leading in churches. But for the fact that it took a lot for me just to get my son and wife to go to church in the first place and then to have those leaders say stupid things that then made my wife and son feel uncomfortable and not want to go church much, if at all, hacked me off. .... and if they don't go, it's difficult for me to go.
Sounds like you have some bad experiences, and have generalized or universalized them

I did that too many years ago

Pastor Baucham has a nice sermon that touches on some of the stuff we are discussing here. Recommended

 
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Daniel Marsh

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While in the military on duty to other bases, I visited a PTL church that started School 15 mintues early. I was escorted in the Pasor's class because they worshipped him. The Pastor was rude to me for being late. I told him that I will not put up with your abuse and I left. As I was leaving he called me names that I will not repeat because they were vulgar. Most of the others got up and followed me to a different Church. I beleive in standing up to JERKS like that pastor.
 
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seeking.IAM

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I think we should admit that in some ways we have failed the faith by not being very good examples of what it means to be a Christian. Priests and ministers abusing kids. Church hierarchy sweeping sexual abuse under the carpet; Drunk Episcopal bishop hit and run killing a bicyclist. Mega-church pastors with corporate jets, $1,000 suits, and Rolexes on their wrists. Prosperity gospel. Lack of charity and division among Christians. Christian extremism (left and right). Unwelcoming attitudes. Sometimes we look pretty crazy and we need to stop that.
 
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