Why is being prosperous and healthy considered wrong?

[A Brother In Christ]

Yes, God does need money to preach the Gospel around this world because money buys the goods and services needed in this natural world...besides, it's God's money in the first place!

Why wouldn't God use His own money?
He's teaching the Body of Christ now how to properly handle money, but some keep listening to the devil who is continually whispering in their ear "if you get any money it will get you into trouble and cause you to run away from God"

...like all of a sudden, the devil is interested in seeing us not turn away from God. He tells Christians this so they will leave him alone on this money business because the devil LOVES money... loving money is the root of all evil because money not only buys things, it buys influence in this world...ands the devil is using money to buy influence AGAINST Christians in the marketplace and in the media...quite successfully, I might add.

and when the church is perscuted the Church grows... we are not to fight for this world. But to do God's will

are we to get ads during the superbowl to spread the gospel...
that would be a waste of money but if you have the resources and the spirit moves you...go head...

And what do the Christians do about this...most of them believe that what the devil says is correct, so they do nothing...and continue to believe that the wealth of this world is actually owned by the devil. A theif never had title deed to anything...if he did, it would be fraudulent!

they are carnal or unbelievers who are not loving the brethren..

Proverbs 1:32
For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.

Do you think all Christians are fools who can't properly handle money?

not all are called to handle money

If a Christian gets alittle money and they are so shallow in their relationship with God that is causes them to fall away, then they were imature baby Christians in the first place. If it wasn't money causing them to fall away, it would be something else.

Yet if in Christ and they fall from the christain life...God is still faithful....1 cor 11:30-32, 2 tim 2:13, hebrews 12:2-11

 

[Rockrz]

when the church is perscuted the Church grows

...that's because many Christians won't get off their duff and do anything about speading the Gospel unless someone threatens them at gun point!

No all of us are that lazy...and it shouldn't be that way because Jesus commanded us to take the Gospel to all the world...which takes CASH!

 

[A Brother In Christ]

...that's because many Christians won't get off their duff and do anything about speading the Gospel unless someone threatens them at gun point!

No all of us are that lazy...and it shouldn't be that way because Jesus commanded us to take the Gospel to all the world...which takes CASH!

I thought all it took was willing proclaimer and open ears... both are God's work with believers being obiedant

must have had it wrong .. I guess

 

[Rockrz]

I must have had it wrong .. I guess

Yes, you got it wrong...it takes action along with our faith and our confession to get things to happen...Read the Book of James!

 

[A Brother In Christ]

Yes, you got it wrong...it takes action along with our faith and our confession to get things to happen...Read the Book of James!

you sound like are school system...throw money and they will get educated...

yet 55% of our town 10 grade class flunk a test that they need to graduate

my point ...if a believer is being obiedant

He will give the gospel to a willing listener

no money needed..

 

[Rockrz]

you sound like are school system...throw money and they will get educated...

yet 55% of our town 10 grade class flunk a test that they need to graduate

my point ...if a believer is being obiedant
He will give the gospel to a willing listener

no money needed..

I don't know about your school system...but there's nothing wrong with the message that the Bible teaches...if the people don't apply themselves, they aren't going to be successful.

Sorry...as long as we are here on earth, we will need money to go out and take the Gospel to the world as Jesus commanded. Can you do anything without money? Not much...

 

[A Brother In Christ]

you haven't heard of the US GOVERNMENT SOCIALISM PROGRAMS

free housing
free food
free car
free schooling
free medical coupons

and you are paying for it through the nose....

 

[Rockrz]

you haven't heard of the US GOVERNMENT SOCIALISM PROGRAMS

free housing
free food
free car
free schooling
free medical coupons

and you are paying for it through the nose....

God's people should never beg for bread!...We have been given a better way to live than that, but many Christians refuse to believe, so they just barely get by.

 

[Dmckay]

Paul worked as a tentmaker to support himself as he served the Lord as a missionary. Paul also prayed that the Lord would remove a physical affliction from him, and not only wasn't healed, but was told that G-d's grace was sufficient for him. The thorn in the flesh would remain to keep him humble.
Paul advised Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach problems. Why didn't Paul, who had healed others just heal Timothy? for that matter, if it is G-d's will that His children be well and wealthy, why were two of His most faithful workers ill and in need of finances?

 

[KristianJ]

John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

It seems that in the context of other things you have said, Jesus' coming was so that we could have a full and great life in the here and now. Naturally, given the many passages spoken of by Christ about his followers taking up their cross to follow him and the like, IMHO this verse has no real application to our lives today. This is why I have problems with the claims of prosperity-based preachers and the like - we are not going to have our best life now. Eternity is where this abundance is going to be, and there is nowhere that I know of in the Scriptures to support an argument that God wants us to have the best in all areas of life. If it were so, not only would it be in the Bible, but each and every believer would be satisfied and free from the "constraints" of financial inadequacy.

The spread of the Gospel, does take money, yes. But given the simple concept of expenses incurred in any area of society (in producing Bibles, transporting goods and people, etc), you can't do it for nothing, although I'm sure that if it was possible, it would happen. The Kingdom of God is not limited by money, and it's not true to say that not much can be done without money.

You don't need an overflowing bank balance to be effective - God will not look any more favourably upon you if you were to donate a large sum of money to a mission organisation than if you shared the Gospel to your next door neighbour by the fence. Yes, God provides for His people, but when there comes an opinion that money makes Kingdom building more effective and more favourable to others, I can't help but respectfully disagree.

 

[Rockrz]

Paul also prayed that the Lord would remove a physical affliction from him, and not only wasn't healed, but was told that G-d's grace was sufficient for him. The thorn in the flesh would remain to keep him humble....Why didn't Paul, who had healed others just heal Timothy? for that matter, if it is G-d's will that His children be well and wealthy, why were two of His most faithful workers ill and in need of finances?

In 2 Timothy 3:11, the Apostle Paul spoke about his afflictions and said "out of them all the Lord delivered me" because these things were attacks by satan meant to destroy Paul and what God called him to do.

The reason Paul didn't just heal Timothy was because Paul can't heal anyone...Jesus does the healing! If Timothy was sick, it wasn't God's if he didn't get healed...

Paul had plenty of finances as there were churches that provided for him. Study the scriptures more and you will see this.

IMHO this verse has no real application to our lives today

Then, we should cut it out of our Bibles since this scripture is no good anymore...maybe Jesus changed His mind and has taken satan on as a partner in God's kingdom. Reckon?

 

[Dmckay]

In 2 Timothy 3:11, the Apostle Paul spoke about his afflictions and said "out of them all the Lord delivered me" because these things were attacks by satan meant to destroy Paul and what God called him to do.

The reason Paul didn't just heal Timothy was because Paul can't heal anyone...Jesus does the healing! If Timothy was sick, it wasn't God's if he didn't get healed...

Paul had plenty of finances as there were churches that provided for him. Study the scriptures more and you will see this.
Then, we should cut it out of our Bibles since this scripture is no good anymore...maybe Jesus changed His mind and has taken satan on as a partner in God's kingdom. Reckon?

You have got to be one of the most arrogant individuals that I have come across on these boards. I should study the Scriptures more. You're right, we all should. However, after completing my Doctorate in Biblical Languages and Biblical Theology I have been studying and teaching the Scriptures for 8 to 10 hours a day for more than 30 years. I only have so many hours in the day to study the Scriptures. I suggest you might try reading them.

 

[Fantine]

I don't think that it is ever wrong to be prosperous or healthy.

What is wrong is being too attached to the material things of life.

With great blessings come great responsibility.

 

[BigNorsk]

Correct, it's not wrong to be wealthy. Noone here has said that. What is wrong is the teaching that it is God's will that everyone be wealthy. That just clearly is not the case. That isn't to say that God doesn't abundantly bless all who follow him. The mistake is taking the standards of the world and applying them to God.

The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away, blessed be the name of the Lord.

Marv

 

[Rockrz]

after completing my Doctorate in Biblical Languages and Biblical Theology I have been studying and teaching the Scriptures for 8 to 10 hours a day for more than 30 years

Oh my GAWD!...I had NO earthly idea that I was dealing with a Bible scholar that has gone to school to be taught the traditions of men!

By all means...Paul was a poor, run down, beat up, un-worthy guy who just barely made it in to Heaven. Yes, the traditions of men is so much more interesting that learning from the Bible that Paul himself claimed that God delivered him from ALL of his afflictions.

No...we can't have any deliverance!
It messes up the traditions of men...you know the way we've all been taught for years! Gramdma taught it, and we bought it!

They called Jesus arrogant to...thank you!
I'm just going by what the book says, so if that's arrogant then so be it...

 

[Rockrz]

The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away, blessed be the name of the Lord.

This is what Job said under duress and pressure from the trial he brought upon him self...and it's wrong, because God doesn't steal!

 

[5stringJeff]

This is what Job said under duress and pressure from the trial he brought upon him self...and it's wrong, because God doesn't steal!

Job brought that upon himself?? You had better go re-read your Bible.

 

[Rockrz]

Job brought that upon himself?? You had better go re-read your Bible.

I did, and found out that religion is telling this story wrong, as though God and the devil were playing a little game of chicken with Job's life...

Job specifically told us what the problem was when he said what he feared came upon him. Job was in fear, which is what broke the hedge of protection that God had placed around him. Fear is a sin...according to numerous scriptures throughout the Bible where God commands us to "fear not"!

If Job had never got into fear concerning his kids, then God's hedge of protection never would have been broken and Job never would have gone through all that mess.

These are all facts about this story that religion never tells you about, but if you read this account of Job and pay attention to details, you'll find these things are there.

 

[stranger]

God , Jesus, and the bible do NOT support capitalism ! [USA and the 'West' living a relatively great 'standard of living' off the poor of the world because of compound interest on money lent to the poor , giving the rich even more for doing nothing other than being rich whilst the poor loses part of his earnings in interest just for being poor]

Mt 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.
23 And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
24 And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!

Mt 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Ex 22:25 If thou lend money to any of my people that is poor by thee, thou shalt not be to him as an usurer, neither shalt thou lay upon him usury.

Le 25:36 Take thou no usury of him, or increase: but fear thy God; that thy brother may live with thee.
Le 25:37 Thou shalt not give him thy money upon usury, nor lend him thy victuals for increase.

Lu 6:24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.

Lu 18:25 For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle’s eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.



Re 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Re 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

1Ti 6:9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.

Jas 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?

Jas 5:1 Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you.

Jas 1:11 For the sun is no sooner risen with a burning heat, but it withereth the grass, and the flower thereof falleth, and the grace of the fashion of it perisheth: so also shall the rich man fade away in his ways.

Jas 1:9 Let the brother of low degree rejoice in that he is exalted:
10 But the rich, in that he is made low: because as the flower of the grass he shall pass away.

Lu 1:53 He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away.

Re 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth arewaxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

Re 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

 

[BigNorsk]

I did, and found out that religion is telling this story wrong, as though God and the devil were playing a little game of chicken with Job's life...

Job specifically told us what the problem was when he said what he feared came upon him. Job was in fear, which is what broke the hedge of protection that God had placed around him. Fear is a sin...according to numerous scriptures throughout the Bible where God commands us to "fear not"!

If Job had never got into fear concerning his kids, then God's hedge of protection never would have been broken and Job never would have gone through all that mess.

These are all facts about this story that religion never tells you about, but if you read this account of Job and pay attention to details, you'll find these things are there.

You make the same mistake Job's "friends" made. It is they who thought that what had happened to Job was God disciplining him, that he had brought it down on himself through sin.

Yet what does scripture say.

Job 1:8-12 NET
(8) So the Lord said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one like him on the earth, a pure and upright man, one who fears God and turns away from evil."
(9) Then Satan answered the Lord, "Is it for nothing that Job fears God?
(10) Have you not made a hedge around him and his household and all that he has on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his cattle have increased in the land.
(11) But extend your hand and strike everything he has, and he will indeed curse you to your face!"
(12) So the Lord said to Satan, "All right then, everything he has is in your power. Only do not extend your hand against the man himself!" So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.

This is the foundation for what follows, it is not because Job feared or doubted. Note that God said he was pure and upright and that their was no one like him on the Earth. Now if you want to claim to be blessed in wealth because you are purer and more upright than Job, I think you are calling God a liar.

Job 1:21-22 NET
(21) He said, "Naked I came from my mother's womb, and naked I will return there. The Lord gives, and the Lord takes away. May the name of the Lord be blessed!"
(22) In all this Job did not sin, nor did he charge God with moral impropriety.

So Job still did not sin.

Job 2:3-6 NET
(3) Then the Lord said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a pure and upright man, one who fears God and turns away from evil. And he still holds firmly his integrity, so that you stirred me up to destroy him without reason."
(4) But Satan answered the Lord, "Skin for skin! Indeed, a man will give up all that he has to save his life!
(5) But extend your hand and strike his bone and his flesh, and he will indeed curse you to your face!"
(6) So the Lord said to Satan, "All right, he is in your power; only preserve his life."

Now this gives us a bit of closure on the first trial on Job. Note the end of verse three very carefully, what happened to Job happened without reason. Yet you seem to provide a reason, fear. Yet God tells us that there was no reason.

It goes on from there with everyone telling Job what to do and making speculations about what he did to deserve what happened to him. And that is the very point. He did nothing to have everything taken away.

That is the falsehood of the health a wealth gospel. The entire basis is that if you aren't healthy and wealthy today, that it is your fault. You lack faith, you have sinned and so on. Instead of being like Job, pure and upright, they follow after Job's "friends" passing judgement where it is not their place. Claiming to know God's plan when they do not. Claiming indeed to be able to control God through their actions. They flip our entire relationship with God upside down, putting man on top and God a servant to do man's will.

So there you have it.
Marv