Why is being prosperous and healthy considered wrong?

BigNorsk said:

It goes on from there with everyone telling Job what to do and making speculations about what he did to deserve what happened to him. And that is the very point. He did nothing to have everything taken away.

That is the falsehood of the health a wealth gospel. The entire basis is that if you aren't healthy and wealthy today, that it is your fault. You lack faith, you have sinned and so on. Instead of being like Job, pure and upright, they follow after Job's "friends" passing judgement where it is not their place. Claiming to know God's plan when they do not. Claiming indeed to be able to control God through their actions. They flip our entire relationship with God upside down, putting man on top and God a servant to do man's will.

So there you have it.
Marv

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amen.... if God increase I praise God if God decreased I praise God to Him be the glory

phil 4:12 I know both to be humbled, and I know how to abound, every where and in all be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. 13 I can do all thing through Christ who gives me power.

what is paul doing here? colossians 3:1-2

Rockrz said:

My bad...God wants everyone to be sick, broke, and barely getting by because He's a mean God that doesn't have enough power to do anything in this natural world because the devil is just too powerful...

Silly me, what was I thinking!
Thank you sooo very much for showing me that God is so mean and powerless in this world, so I won't expect anything from Him again in the furture!

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You are constantly setting up this false dichotomy, that if we disagree with the H&W scheme, that we are advocating the notion that God wants all people to be poor and sickly. Neither is true. God calls us to be stewards of His possessions. Why don't you read the story of Joseph, who was a righteous man who was nevertheless made a slave and thrown in jail after being falsely accused. He is a great example of the stewardship God wants from all of us in our financial dealings.

gopjeff said:

You are constantly setting up this false dichotomy, that if we disagree with the H&W scheme, that we are advocating the notion that God wants all people to be poor and sickly. Neither is true. God calls us to be stewards of His possessions. Why don't you read the story of Joseph, who was a righteous man who was nevertheless made a slave and thrown in jail after being falsely accused. He is a great example of the stewardship God wants from all of us in our financial dealings.

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so when Paul was poor in earth goods.... he was being a bad steward?

or was Paul trying to use all that God gave him in his "position in Christ" where God has given all riches "in Christ" Phil 4

You might be a Christian if…

22) You think you defend your worldview successfully, but your two main arguments are based on circular reasoning (The Bible is true because the Bible says…) and ad hominem attacks (Everyone already knows God is real, and those who deny it are lying to themselves).

21) You always try to observe the ten commandments like Exodus 20:7, but you never try to observe the punishments like Leviticus 24:16.

20) You trust a book written by sheepherders in a time when humans thought the world was flat and that women determined the gender of offspring, but you don’t trust a book written in modern times by a scientist.

19) You believe that fear of God and love of God are compatible and even complimentary.

18) You believe that a material universe created ex nihilo by an eternal, immaterial God makes more sense than an eternal, material universe itself.

17) You believe that a being that creates flawed, imperfect, and evil entities can be all loving and all wise.

16) You think that a story involving a God who sacrifices himself to himself in order to circumvent a law he created himself that would have forced him to send his own flawed creations to a Hell he created himself makes perfect sense.

15) You think two wrongs make a right in that everyone is born guilty, and that spilling innocent blood provides redemption for this inherent guilt.

14) You deny the first law of thermodynamics, and champion the second law of thermodynamics.

13) You claim that faith (belief in things unevidenced) is required for salvation, but you attempt to prove Christianity with material evidence every chance you get.

12) You insist that God is responsible for everything in the universe, and then insist that original sin is Adam’s fault and that Satan was responsible for his own rebellion.

11) You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

10) You feel that the theory that people evolved from other life forms trivializes and cheapens humanity, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt and ribs.

9) You claim that God’s love is all encompassing and unconditional, and the only condition is that you admit worthlessness and submit fully to his will.

8) Your cringe when you hear of the “atrocities” attributed to Allah, but you don’t even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in “Exodus” and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in “Joshua” — including women, children, and trees!

7) You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

6) You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (4.55 billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a couple of generations old.

5) You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs — though excluding those in all rival sects — will spend eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most “tolerant” and “loving.”

4) While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in “tongues” may be all the evidence you need to “prove” Christianity.

3) You state that prayers are always answered even if the exact opposite of what you pray for happens.

2) Despite the fact that prisons and mental institutions have a higher percentage of Christians than the general population, and college educated people have a higher percentage of atheism than the general population, you claim that Christianity will improve ones moral code and quality of life; you claim that Christians are better people. Then when presented with this contrary evidence, you claim that the devil is to blame for this “deception”.

1) Your grandest wish is for God/Jesus to come down from heaven and initiate an apocalypse, yet again committing near total genocide on all of humanity.

Ro 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

If one cares about money one is not caring about God in spirit ... some God makes to care about Him, others to care about the world and its empty goals ....

Mt 6:28 ... Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

A Brother In Christ said:

so when Paul was poor in earth goods.... he was being a bad steward?

or was Paul trying to use all that God gave him in his "position in Christ" where God has given all riches "in Christ" Phil 4

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That's not what I said... maybe I should have clarified. Paul writes to the Phillipians (ch 4:11-13) that he had learned to be content in whatever circumstance he found himself, whether in need or "rolling in the dough." That's a Biblical attitude. Paul did NOT say that he knew that when he didn't have much, he was in sin and not claiming the full blessing of God. He did say, however, that "if we have food and shelter, we will be satisfied with that," and "contentment with godliness is great gain."

thank you...

By nature usally when we are in good health and not lacking we tend to depend on God less.. I think we should spend more time praying and praising God when things are going good to let him know..we know its only because of him we have the health and good things

wrldstrman said:

By nature usally when we are in good health and not lacking we tend to depend on God less.. I think we should spend more time praying and praising God when things are going good to let him know..we know its only because of him we have the health and good things

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Ding Ding Ding!

Don't wait until you're falling over dead to praise God for the health and prosperity he has given you!

The Bible says he will give you the desires of your heart,and this is true,but what should you be desiring?The answer is God's will for your life.Not material things,but spiritual things. For what shall it profit a man if he shall gain the whole world,and lose his soul? Mrk8:36.

1 tim 6:9 But they that will be rich fall into tempation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition

why worried about loosing there money..

Lord giveth and the Lord taketh

The bible does not promise you being prosperous and completely healthy. Timothy was ill and Paul had a 'thorn in the flesh'. As regards to riches, the practice of the early church was to "reequalize" and the money was distributed amongst the poor so that there would be "no poor among you". Acts chapter 2 right upto 5 covers a lot of of this topic.

I didn't vote because there was not a question that I would answer.

The key about being prosperous and healthy:

First: Prosperous
The Bible does not forbid the possession of wealth & being prosperous. If I have multiple cars, boats, acres of land, houses, all kinds of investments and other possessions, it takes a lot of time to make sure everything is secure and well taken care of. No time is left for God. Are possessions first in my life or God? Does the possessions OWN me? Do my possessions control my life?

Your view of money and material possessions is an effective barometer of your spirituality. Wealth is neither good nor bad in itself. What we do with our money God gives us is a reflection of your thinking. As Jesus said, "Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also" (Matthew 6:21). When we accumulate our possessions for our own selfish sake--those possessions have become idols. Idols when a Christian have a selfish heart of greed (name it, claim it) is your master. This means a Christian have put prosperous and wealth AHEAD of Jesus. Jesus is the Lord who says, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, let him deny Himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me" (Luke 9:23). To obey Him is to enjoy the fellowship of God and true believers, a fellowship of light (1 John 1:5-7).

A person's heart is always found running in the direction of his/her desires. The heart that desires often leads a person towards the wrong direction. Those who believed that God will not allow Christians to suffer are in big trouble and probably won't last. People view possessions as blessings from God and suffering is not part of a Christian's life. The Bible talks about "apathy" and "apostasy". Jesus and New Testament writers warned that there will be "Christians" who will reveal their true self whether they are a Christian or playing a Christian. I had a thread about "Cost of Discipleship", Dietrich Bonhoeffer’s concept of "costly grace" has appealed to many who think it is the answer to the apathy and worldliness of contemporary (1930's) Christians. From reading Dietrich's book, "The Cost of Discipleship" which first published in English in 1949. He wrote: 'costly grace' as opposed to 'cheap grace,' which he described as 'Grace without price; grace without cost,' or "grace without discipleship.' To Bonhoeffer, costly grace is inseparable from discipleship. By the way, Bonhoeffer was hanged in the Nazi concentration camp at Flossenbürg on April 9, 1945.

Health:
Its simple. I live in a tent. A temporary body which is AGING and my physical body is going to DIE someday. I am healthy when I take care of my body. When I am unhealthy, its because my body is carrying the disease called sin and it will make my body go back to DUST. CHRISTIANS are not immuned to diseases however, we are immuned to eternal death.

Mikecpking said:

The bible does not promise you being prosperous and completely healthy. Timothy was ill and Paul had a 'thorn in the flesh'. As regards to riches, the practice of the early church was to "reequalize" and the money was distributed amongst the poor so that there would be "no poor among you". Acts chapter 2 right upto 5 covers a lot of of this topic.

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Pauls thorn was other people and Timothys tummy ache doesn't prove anything.

ShaunJ said:

Pauls thorn was other people and Timothys tummy ache doesn't prove anything.

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these guys had the power to heal yet God didn't allow them to heal themselves...

Why did Job go thru some of the things he did... boils for one...

The poll question is worded in such a way that you can really only choose one answer, so I refrained from answering.
Yes, I can see how many Christians enjoy picking out verses like Proverbs 19:4, 7 and then conveniently ignore others such as Luke 12:33.
The fact is the Bible says both. It says to be prosperous and it also says to sell all that we have. So, one way or another, both must be true.
This is my interpretation. There is so much dispute over it that I will not be so arrogant as to claim this as the definite one-and-only way. But this is my view.
Yes we are to be prosperous. But for what reason? To what end? So that we have more to give. That is the reason for any blessing: to pass it on. Giving is better than receiving (Acts 20:35), for both parties (especially if the receiving party is a starving family in a third world country and the giving party is a middle-class American living in a two hundred thousand dollar house with two cars in their garage). I think the purpose of wealth is first to prevent yourself from being a burden, second to provide for others who simply cannot provide for themselves. So these deals with people who live in three hundred dollar houses, with sports cars and big screen TV's, looking at several thousand dollar remodeling plans for their kitchens who say that "God wants them to be happy" . . . I'm sorry, but I just do not see any biblical support for that. A spoiled child is not a happy child. Overindulgence (is that a real word?) is the reality behind the excuses we throw out about God "wanting" us to be wealthy.

die2live said:

The poll question is worded in such a way that you can really only choose one answer, so I refrained from answering.
Yes, I can see how many Christians enjoy picking out verses like Proverbs 19:4, 7 and then conveniently ignore others such as Luke 12:33.
The fact is the Bible says both. It says to be prosperous and it also says to sell all that we have. So, one way or another, both must be true.
This is my interpretation. There is so much dispute over it that I will not be so arrogant as to claim this as the definite one-and-only way. But this is my view.
Yes we are to be prosperous. But for what reason? To what end? So that we have more to give. That is the reason for any blessing: to pass it on. Giving is better than receiving (Acts 20:35), for both parties (especially if the receiving party is a starving family in a third world country and the giving party is a middle-class American living in a two hundred thousand dollar house with two cars in their garage). I think the purpose of wealth is first to prevent yourself from being a burden, second to provide for others who simply cannot provide for themselves. So these deals with people who live in three hundred dollar houses, with sports cars and big screen TV's, looking at several thousand dollar remodeling plans for their kitchens who say that "God wants them to be happy" . . . I'm sorry, but I just do not see any biblical support for that. A spoiled child is not a happy child. Overindulgence (is that a real word?) is the reality behind the excuses we throw out about God "wanting" us to be wealthy.

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So basically it's ok to have money just as long as you don't buy stuff for yourself?

It's ok to have cool stuff and give and love and be wealthy. You can have all of it as long as none of it becomes more important to you then God himself. It's the love of money that is evil not having it. There is nothing wrong with earning your money and driving a sports car and having a cool TV. Look at all that Solomon had.

The fact is I would be ready to give all that wealth up at the drop of a hat for Jesus, and that is how it should be. That is what is happening whith the story of the rich man. He loved his stuff more then God.

Love your God, Enjoy your stuff, and bless all that you can because you can (because he has you)! Thats how I see it.

I have heard theology that looks solely at the benefit to oneself compared to being a batboy. Does anyone really think that handing the baseball bat to the player is really the most important part of the game?
Yes, you should be willing to give up everything for God. But willingness alone is only part of one's attitude. It's part of the work that God does in our hearts to change us once we accept him. But just like picking up the bat is not the only step in winning the game, becoming willing to do God's will is not the only step in actually doing it. Giving to those who have greater needs is a command given by Jesus (Luke 12:33, I believe. The actual verse may not be correct, but the whole section emphasizes the point) and exemplified in the records of the lives of early believers (Check out the early chapters of Acts).
Yes, Solomon lived in splendor. Solomon also had seven hundred wives and three hundred concubines. He also worshiped foreign gods. He was also a king, and so his wealth was really his country's. And, if I remember correctly, it was his arrogance and self-satisfaction that eventually became his downfalling. So I really don't see Solomon as such a great example for us to look too.
It's not all about us. Being a Christian is not just about being a better person inside. It's using those improvements to our spirit for the better of others who we are called to love, care and provide for.

Being that there are only two options here...I can't vote...God wants the best for us....but the best for us has no connection with physical things...our best awaits us in heaven....so, some of us he may give great things to so that we may bless others, but some he may bless in other ways that people can't see from the outside......and he may wait until heaven to give the best gifts for those who never got good stuff in this life. It matters little what we get here.....it's up there where the true gifts lie.