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Why in Physics we have proofs, but in Theology - arguments?

SkyWriting

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And alcohol.

Which is why I don't understand why scientists harp against proof, since they invented & perfected it.

And along that subject, have you ever heard of: Kennedy curse ?

I'm sure he was cursing as Kennedy left his car with his passenger
trapped underwater. After nine hours he called the police.
She was cursing about not having a cell phone from the future.

Mankind will never travel in time. If we ever did, then a Kennedy
would go back and save this poor girl and we wouldn't know about it.
 
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AV1611VET

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I like it, but it is not allowed. If I'm going to be damned as an heretic anyway, I'll stick with the Sacred Mystery I learned about at church.
If you're damned as a heretic, it's your own fault.

John 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
 
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Speedwell

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If you're damned as a heretic, it's your own fault.

John 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
LOL! I wasn't talking about God damning me, but creationists damning me.
 
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SkyWriting

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Let us consider the time machine proof:
According to Steven Hawking's paper "Chronology protection Conjecture" the site of time machine construction will be destroyed prior to the first time travel attempt. But the timing of destruction is not fixed by the theory. Such destruction is not natural: The Chronology Protector decides when the site must be hit on. So, there is invisible God as solution to all time travel paradoxes.

There is another serious problem.
Consider that the planet and solar system moving is like a speeding car on a highway.
Any form of time travel will leave you outside of the car.
HG Wells knew this and went to great pains to distract your
attention with a fancy vehicle and the walls of the building
fading away. He "grounded" the passenger because he knew
that time travel required changes in space, not just time.
 
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AV1611VET

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LOL! I wasn't talking about God damning me, but creationists damning me.
Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
 
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Speedwell

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Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Thank you, AV--a good reminder.
 
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quatona

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The Nature is more difficult to understand, than a watch. The latter must be designed, no way around the designer (because the watch is difficult to understand). So, the Nature is designed.
Your presupposition is that "difficult to understand" points to design.
 
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CrystalDragon

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Actually it's the other way around.

Scientists love to argue, and their biggest argument is evolution.

That's why Paul refers to evolution as "endless genealogies."

1 Timothy 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

And notice three things here:
  1. It ministers questions and more questions. That's why scientists question us to death about our faith.
  2. It doesn't edify God. In fact, it kicks Him out of school and off of our courthouse lawns.
  3. It isn't true faith. The object of science's faith is nature, not God.


You say that like questioning is a bad thing.
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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There are God proofs, but in debates we call them "arguments". So, we are inviting unbelievers to argue (the word "argue" is like the "argu-ment"). Let the opposer-s call our proofs the "arguments". Do you say in school: "the argument of Pythagorean theorem is following...."?!

Vocabulary is a result of history and that's just the way things are.
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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Even in math, you prove things based on what you have accepted - axioms - on faith.

But that's just one kind of proof. What about forensic proof, where the defendant is proven to be guilty? That kind of proof is a real thing we have to deal with when we use the word "proof" . . . and it is accomplished over and over in our courts.
 
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Gene2memE

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Take the design-proof: "the Nature is more complex than watch, the latter is designed, so the Nature is designed." What is supposed here?

Break this down into a basic logical syllogism (Premise A, Premise B, Conclusion):

Premise A: If something in nature is more complex than a watch, it is designed
Premise B: There is something in nature more complex than a watch
Conclusion: Therefore, nature is designed

Looking at this 'design-proof', I cant see how either of the premises or the conclusion are logically valid. Premise A has not been demonstrated, Premise B depends on how you define/measure complexity and the conclusion is invalid as it come from unsubstantiated premises.

For this to be valid, you need to demonstrate that
1. Something in nature is more complex that a watch
2. If something is more complex than a watch it could only be designed

For point 1, you'd need a functional definition of complexity that can be objectively applied. This would be doubly difficult, as you are comparing things that may or may not be naturally occurring, with things that we know are definitely not naturally occurring.

For point 2, you need to conclusively demonstrate two claims: That particular levels of complexity are impossible in nature. And that once that level of complexity is exceeded, the only answer is design.

Once you've demonstrated these, then you can make a conclusion of design in nature, or that nature is designed.
 
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DogmaHunter

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Let us take the next proof, please.

"proof"? I think you mean "the next claim".

The Nature can not have the infinite past

Why not? And why would it have to?

so there is supernatural component there.

So, the alternative to an "infite natural past" is an "infinite supernatural past"? Why isn't that a problem?

And is the only possible alternative to an "infinitie natural past" an "infinite supernatural past"? Why must there even be an infinite past?

Your "proof" consists of nothing more then 3 bare assertions with nothing to back it up.
 
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DogmaHunter

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Let us consider the time machine proof:

A "proof" that considers imaginary machines.... awesome.

According to Steven Hawking's paper "Chronology protection Conjecture" the site of time machine construction will be destroyed prior to the first time travel attempt. But the timing of destruction is not fixed by the theory. Such destruction is not natural: The Chronology Protector decides when the site must be hit on. So, there is invisible God as solution to all time travel paradoxes.

Awesome. Inventing hypotheticals out of thing air and then pretending that it says something about the real world. Great. Just great.

"proof" - I don't think it means what you think it means.
 
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DogmaHunter

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It points to design through the line of reasoning. Or do you argue, what when you would find the watch in the forest the Nature did it?

We know watches are designed. First, because WE are the designers of watches.
Having said that, we don't recognise that watches are designed simply because they are "complicated" or whatever.
 
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