Why I'm Orthodox . . . and why others may want to be too.

[vanshan]

So you don’t take vows???? You do not vow (stand before God and say) that you will love, honor and obey until death due you part? You leave it open ended???

It's understood that this is one of the Holy Mysteries God gives us, so it is not taken lightly. No vows are made to each other during our service of matrimony. We know by the definition of marriage that is is holy and in it God makes two individual mystically one. We take it very seriously, and have a beautiful service. I'll post a couple photos from my wedding a few years ago, if I can find them . . . I'm at work.

Basil

 

[Benedicta00]

NO TRUE SCOTSMAN

If one fornicates then they were never really married right? No True Sacramental marriage could ever have adultery in it!

Fallacy.

Jesus was saying that an invalid marriage amounts to fornication. If you were never married you do not commit adultery- you commit fornication- two ppl who are not married properly and were not previously married before are committing fornication, not adultry- it is as if they are living together with out the benefit of marriage.

Not putting away your spouse except for fornication- means if you were never really married properly you are then fornication with the person and you are free to leave that situation.

If we are so wrong.. please… and I am to the point of begging, please tell me what YOU think the words of Jesus and Paul mean?

 

[CaDan]

NO TRUE SCOTSMAN

If one fornicates then they were never really married right? No True Sacramental marriage could ever have adultery in it!

Fallacy.

We need to get some terms in the Greek defined before this spins out of control. What is porneia?

And none of that Thayers junk. Does anyone besides seebs have a copy of the Theological Wordbook available?

Or maybe a copy of an indexed Septuagint?

 

[Benedicta00]

It's understood that this is one of the Holy Mysteries God gives us, so it is not taken lightly. No vows are made to each other during our service of matrimony. We know by the definition of marriage that is is holy and in it God makes two individual mystically one. We take it very seriously, and have a beautiful service. I'll post a couple photos from my wedding a few years ago, if I can find them . . . I'm at work.

Basil

So what do you do, just stand there?

 

[eoe]

And we have seen that the EO thinks man is so animalistic he has to have sex so he has to be married (so he can have sex) even when it is a sin to do so.

Totally false. Ever heard of Mount Athos? There are many celebate monks that prove you wrong.

 

[vanshan]

I thought y’all were pretty much on the same page as us with understanding that when we are born again we are to become what Christ redeemed us to be by putting off the old (flesh) man and putting on the new man (Jesus Christ) and that would mean no longer allowing the flesh to rule us, that we gain control over our disordered passions (And that is what there are ya know… disorderedpassion) by denying the flesh and living in the spirit and God is the one who will afford us the grace to do so, he said his grace is sufficient and he gives us no cross to heavy we can not carry.

How do y'all think perfection is reached if you give into your passions?

We are made a new creature, but perfection has not yet been reached. Only the greatest of saints have even gotten close. Our nature is restored, but we must labor to overcome our passions, that doesn't happen instantly, as observation of any Christian should prove, Roman Catholic or otherwise.

Basil

 

[Benedicta00]

Totally false. Ever heard of Mount Athos? There are many celebate monks that prove you wrong.

So what’s the problem here? If you know ppl can abstain then why would you rather allow remarriage where they possibly may be entering into adultery which is deadly sin, instead of doing what is best for the person’s soul by first examining if the marriage was valid and if it was suggesting that work things out with theor spouse or remain chaste.

 

[Benedicta00]

We are made a new creature, but perfection has not yet been reached. Only the greatest of saints have even gotten close. Our nature is restored, but we must labor to overcome our passions, that doesn't happen instantly, as observation of any Christian should prove, Roman Catholic or otherwise.

Basil

And I can tell you- giving into lust isn’t going to get you there anytime soon. Do y’all recognize virtues? Do you know that purity and chastity is a virtue that perfects us?

 

[eoe]

Jesus was saying that an invalid marriage amounts to fornication. If you were never married you do not commit adultery- you commit fornication- two ppl who are not married properly and were not previously married before are committing fornication, not adultry- it is as if they are living together with out the benefit of marriage.

Not putting away your spouse except for fornication- means if you were never really married properly you are then fornication with the person and you are free to leave that situation.

If we are so wrong.. please… and I am to the point of begging, please tell me what YOU think the words of Jesus and Paul mean?

Thank you for defining the no true scotsman for us.

We need to get some terms in the Greek defined before this spins out of control. What is porneia?

Fornication and adultery can be interchanged.

G4202
πορνεία
porneia
por-ni'-ah
From G4203; harlotry (including adultery and incest); figuratively idolatry: - fornication.

 

[CaDan]

Thank you for defining the no true scotsman for us.

Fornication and adultery can be interchanged.

That's Thayer's. Decent for a first pass, but just about worthless for serious exegesis.

 

[ufonium2]

So what do you do, just stand there?

We do the same thing Eastern Catholics do at their weddings, I'm pretty sure.

 

[eoe]

Princeton university english definition. That work or you want more?

Noun

• S: (n) fornication (voluntary sexual intercourse between persons not married to each other)
• S: (n) adultery, criminal conversation, fornication (extramarital sex that willfully and maliciously interferes with marriage relations) "adultery is often cited as grounds for divorce"

Do you really want to try to pull the traslation card on a greek orthodox? Seriously?

 

[Benedicta00]

Thank you for defining the no true scotsman for us.

Fornication and adultery can be interchanged.

And thank you for answering me…

I’m sorry but by the mere fact you will not explain the bible in light of what you teach and explain to us just how in the world Orthodoxy is rooted in scripture I can only conclude that like our Protestant brethren who may, on occasion like you, is just simply ignore the verses that do not fit into your theology.

If Orthodoxy is scriptural after all, then just show me how, and I'm Catholic, you can use Tradition as well to glean this is rooted in the ancient faith Jesus left for us.

 

[Benedicta00]

Princeton university english definition. That work or you want more?




Do you really want to try to pull the traslation card on a greek orthodox? Seriously?

And that definition contradicts me how? You are assuming Jesus was referring to, you can leave in the case where you spouse was unfaithful and NOT because some marriages Like Paul said, amount to fornication, where the spouses are not truly married because they are not married before God.

Show me, put it together for me, and glean your teaching for me using scripture and Tradition. Please… I beg you now.

 

[vanshan]

And I can tell you- giving into lust isn’t going to get you there anytime soon. Do y’all recognize virtues? Do you know that purity and chastity is a virtue that perfects us?

Resisting lust is good, but to expect perfection from reception into Christ's Church is rigid and impossible. We begin our struggle at that point. Fasting, praying, and participating in the life of the Church will help us become more like Christ. Through theosis, we will overcome sin and death, but it's obviously not an instant process. The goal is to reach pious perfection, but we must spend a ton of time falling and getting back up to even begin the first step towards holiness. Thank God, His grace covers over a multitude of sins or none could be saved.

Basil

 

[Benedicta00]

We do the same thing Eastern Catholics do at their weddings, I'm pretty sure.

I’ll have to check that out, becuase this is getting bizzare. Maybe Debbi Webbi can shed some light.

 

[eoe]

I’m sorry but by the mere fact you will not explain the bible in light of what you teach and explain to us just how in the world Orthodoxy is rooted in scripture I can only conclude that like our Protestant brethren who may, on occasion like you, is just simply ignore the verses that do not fit into your theology.

If Orthodoxy is scriptural after all, then just show me how, and I'm Catholic, you can use Tradition as well to glean this is rooted in the ancient faith Jesus left for us.

I am still really new so I can not give you a good answer.
I do know a NTS when I see one tho and that one was wrapped up with a bow on top and had a big spotlight on it.

Now - if you really want to understand this - instead of all the nasty debate why not just ask? Why do the EO allow divorce and in some cases remarriage?

Let me see if I can find out...

 

[Benedicta00]

Resisting lust is good, but to expect perfection from reception into Christ's Church is rigid and impossible. We begin our struggle at that point. Fasting, praying, and participating in the life of the Church will help us become more like Christ. Through theosis, we will overcome sin and death, but it's obviously not an instant process.

Basil

And that is why Paul said it is better to marry than to burn but he never said it is best you keep marrying over and over again. Where are mulitple marrieges taught for the sake of lust? Where??

 

[CaDan]

We do the same thing Eastern Catholics do at their weddings, I'm pretty sure.

I remember a good deal of standing.

Actually, I don't remember much. It's kind of a blur until the end. Then we skipped out.

/me looks at the wedding pictures

My God! They're a pair of children!

 

[eoe]

And that definition contradicts me how?

Because you based your argument on fornication being different from adultery. That is how it totally contradicts you.