Why I'm Orthodox . . . and why others may want to be too.

[CaDan]

NOT!!!!

I lived in Minneapolis before! Whether you're going to the grocery store or the mailbox one block away, every trip always seems to take an hour!

But I live in the Saintly City!

Three blocks to work, five blocks to the grocery store, three blocks to the law school with a full library.

I can never move!

 

[Joykins]

Wow you are fast. You have a store in your house? LOL

Hey, some of us need only go to the fridge!

Egg nog

4 eggs, separated
1/2 cup sugar, evenly divided
1/2 cup white rum
1 1/2 cups milk
1 1/2 cups whiskey
1 cup heavy whipping cream, evenly divided

Beat egg yolks with 1/2 of sugar; set aside. Beat egg-whites in a separate bowl until stiff, then mix in other 1/2 of sugar. Poor the yolks into the whites and mix together slowly. Stir in white rum slowly. Stir in milk slowly. Stir in whiskey slowly. Stir in 1/2 of cream slowly. Whip the other 1/2 of cream and fold in carefully.

Serve with a little grated nutmeg on top

 

[thereselittleflower]

My brother is Catholic and they gave him permission to remarry to another woman. ummm interesting.

Yes, the Catholic Church will give premission to remarry IF they have determined it will not result in entering into the sin of adultery.

This is what we have been saying.


If the first marriage is determined to have not been a sacramental marriage, ie joined by God, then the marriage is not of the type that Jesus said could not be dissolved . .


do you see this?



Peace to all

 

[jameseb]

But I live in the Saintly City!

Three blocks to work, five blocks to the grocery store, three blocks to the law school with a full library.

I can never move!

Ah, now that's the setup I've got here in North Little Rock! My work is literally across the street, grocery store, video store, Schlotzky's, bank, post office and Hallmark are alll within 4 blocks of me... its paradise!

 

[CaDan]

Hey, some of us need only go to the fridge!

Egg nog

4 eggs, separated
1/2 cup sugar, evenly divided
1/2 cup white rum
1 1/2 cups milk
1 1/2 cups whiskey
1 cup heavy whipping cream, evenly divided

Beat egg yolks with 1/2 of sugar; set aside. Beat egg-whites in a separate bowl until stiff, then mix in other 1/2 of sugar. Poor the yolks into the whites and mix together slowly. Stir in white rum slowly. Stir in milk slowly. Stir in whiskey slowly. Stir in 1/2 of cream slowly. Whip the other 1/2 of cream and fold in carefully.

Serve with a little grated nutmeg on top

I was out of milk.

 

[CaDan]

Yes, the Catholic Church will give premission to remarry IF they have determined it will not result in entering into the sin of adultery.

This is what we have been saying.


If the first marriage is determined to have not been a sacramental marriage, ie joined by God, then the marriage is not of the type that Jesus said could not be dissolved . .


do you see this?



Peace to all

Umm . . . Jim left to cuddle with his wife.

Would you like a cookie? We have eggnog, too.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Can we just say that the RC and EO disagree on this and move on? Please?

eoe . . . the issue is the claim by the OP in the OP and elsewhere in this thread by the OP and other EO's that the Orthodox is the only Church to have never changed its doctrines.

We have brought up 3 doctrines which have been changed over time of the EO in this thread . . . the Immaculate Conception, Contraception, and Remarriage.

Remarriage is the only one of the three that Basil chose to really engage us on, so hence this discussion.


Here is the issue eoe . . . why can't an EO come into GT and start a thread to talk about his faith WITHOUT ATTACKING the rest of us, especially Catholics?

We are called heterodox (which is a fancy way of saying heretic) and accused of departing the one faith and changing our doctrines and then the claim is laid that the EO have never changed their doctrines which is false.

So . .should we just let anyone who wishes to do so make such claims without requiring that objective evidence be provided? None has been provided yet in this thread. . . .

Should the claim made by the EO that the doctrines of the EO have never changed in contrast to the attack against us that ours have, be allowed to stand unchallenged?

We Catholics should just crawl in a hole somewhere so anyone who wishes, even our EO berthern, can attack our faith undisturbed, is that right?


This isn't right . . and some of us have simply had enough of it.

One of the things that I really like about Orthodoxy is its mystical side. There is a deep spiritual aspect of Christianity that I was totally unaware of as a protestant. The writings of Saint Theophan the Recluse are opening my eyes to a very intense spirituality that I found myself longing for before I found Orthodoxy.

eoe The Orthodox Church is beautiful, full of deep beauty and spirituality. I love the Orthodox Church.

The only reason I did not return to the Orthodox Church was because truth matters to me . . and the issue of the Pope decided it for me. Even so, I have felt a longing for the Orthodox Church for this is the Church of my childhood.

I am really sad to have had to delve into the things regarding remarriage here in this thread, for it has virtualy extinguished that longing.




Peace to all

 

[thereselittleflower]

And they say we are bashing the Catholics !!

Jim

How is requesting evidence to back up a statement "bashing" ?


Please explain. .. .


Thank you


Peace to all

 

[Benedicta00]

I think extreme sexual frustration can be played out in a number of immoral ways, so why not a frustrated priest expressing his rampant sexual desire to the only innocent target he has access to?

You assume this based on what?!? Was there a study done to support this claim or something? If so I want to se it I want scientific evidence that will suggest that celibacy causes this frustration to become sick in the head where you crave children.

You really shock me you know that?

You assume all priest are sexuallyfrustrated because they can’t have sex? What happened to “my grace is sufficient? And yes they can have sex- they can get a woman just as easlity as the can get a child…where do you get this mindset from?

I think the innovation of a celebate priesthood is something the Roman Catholic religion really needs to revisit. You can't keep doing what your doing, since it's not working for you.

So we ignore what Paul advised? You seem to want to forget this comes from Paul.

I have heard that there was a time when the Universal Church also began requiring celibate priests, but that innovation was ended in the east, so it's not a requirement, nor are celibate priests made parish priests. It really works well for the Orthodox, so have your hierarchy look into the possibility.

Basil

No it don’t!!! Your guys molest kids too and hire assassins to bump off brother bishops and fix trails and have dealings with drug Lords... Give me a brake. Beside, it is a rule not a mater of faith and morals. It changed because it can. Celibacy defines the Latin rite but not the Catholic Church.

 

[Polycarp1]

No we aren't Jim . . . This is a twisting of what has happened in this thread.

I guess it is OK for non-Catholic to take pot shots at our faith, make unsubstantiated claims against our own and inflated claims in contrast about theirs and we should just be silent and let you all do it?

Look at the OP again Jim . . we have been defending against those negative statemetns in attack of our faith ever since in this thread. We have been challengng the unfounded claims made by the OP . . that is NOT bashing . .

But bringing up unrelated issues to attack the Catholic Church is bashing Jim . . .


Peace to all

No, Terese. You are among the last people on this board I would ever have suspected of being a "Nine Commandment Christian" (a sarcastic phrase usually directed at Protestant fundamentalists meaning they dropped the one about bearing false witness, if you weren't aware).

But Basil started a thread to witness to why he had found a church home in Orthodoxy. In the course of that, he of course had to explain their claim to be the original church, from which everyone else has schismed. With you having done that song and dance about Catholicism enough, I'm sure you recognized the tune and steps, even when set to an Eastern tempo.

Then you, Shelby, Jason, and a few others showed up and began bemoaning that woe, it's just another attack on Catholicism.

Well, let me explain this to you in the simplest of terms.

By your own church's teachings, grace is not reserved to practicing Catholics. By your own church's teachings, the Orthodox are guilty of at most schism, and are in full communion with the Catholic Church as far as it itself is concerned (cf. Paul VI).

The person doing all the attacking in this thread has been you -- with assists credited to Jason and Shelby. And I would venture to guess that in the eyes of every non-Catholic involved here, and I'd bet at least one Catholic, you have won the battle but lost the war.

Jesus Christ himself gave us the touchstone to know who His true disciples were, and where truth can be found. It's in the 13th chapter of John.

And you have been showing Christian charity, grace, and mercy to such an extent that Fred Phelps is taking notes in envy of your skill.

It is not for me to say this, but I sincerely think you need to repent, get off your high horse, and start acting like a Christian woman instead of the Arbiter of Catholic Doctrine to whom Pope Benedict looks when he needs to be set straight about something.

Forgive me, but a little straight talk of the Dutch Uncle variety seemed called for.

Basil, when opportunity presents, would you kindly explain oikonomia and its relationship to doctrinal rigidity in a bit more depth?

 

[thereselittleflower]

I do believe the Church has just been insulted.

Why do you consider the truth insulting?

If the Orthodox Church does not permit people to enter into adulterous relationships in remarriage after divorce, then please show me how this is so . .

We have been asking Basil and others this, and it has been admitted to us that the Orthodox Church sees this as the lessor of two evils .. that it is better to allow one to enter into a remarriage after divorce if they are unable to contain themselves as a single, then it is to require they remain single when they may commit fornicaiton.

Now . . this does not deal with the issue of adultery at all that Jesus said one would be guilty of of they divorced and remarried when God had joined them to their first spouse . . . .


We have been through a great deal of discussion to come to this understanding .


The Orthodox admit that a remarriage is not ideal . . .

If it is not sinful, why is it not ideal?

You cannot even acknowledge that this is based on your Roman Catholic beliefs... granted, it may be your matter-of-fact belief, of which you are unapologetic for, but this just comes across as insulting.

No . .it is based on the words of Christ and the clear teaching of the Early Church on the matter which the Orthodox have departed from.


This is the whole reason why we are talking about this in this thread . .because the Orthodox have departed from the clear teachng of the Early Church on this matter . . .

I dunno, call me crazy, but I seem to recall something about marital unfaithfulness being mentioned....

That is not the only reason why the Orthodox Church allows divorce and remarriage . . .

And though, at the time of the Great Schism, adutlery was the only reason allowed, in recent centuries, the list has grown . . to 10 reasons, and now I beleive it is around 21 reasons . . (though this is off the top of my head ) . ..

The list keeps getting bigger and bigger . . .


It is a slippery slope you are all on . . .



Peace to all

 

[Benedicta00]

Yes, Therese, you are bright enough to figure out that I mean, more precisely, as I have already said, that God allows someone out of the commitment of marriage to remarry. He forgives the sin of breaking the sacrament of matrimony to remarry. Okay? In extreme cases His mercy is sought, and given I believe.

Basil

And you base this on what? Scripture? I don’t think so.

 

[Benedicta00]

No, Terese. You are among the last people on this board I would ever have suspected of being a "Nine Commandment Christian" (a sarcastic phrase usually directed at Protestant fundamentalists meaning they dropped the one about bearing false witness, if you weren't aware).

But Basil started a thread to witness to why he had found a church home in Orthodoxy. In the course of that, he of course had to explain their claim to be the original church, from which everyone else has schismed. With you having done that song and dance about Catholicism enough, I'm sure you recognized the tune and steps, even when set to an Eastern tempo.

Then you, Shelby, Jason, and a few others showed up and began bemoaning that woe, it's just another attack on Catholicism.

Well, let me explain this to you in the simplest of terms.

By your own church's teachings, grace is not reserved to practicing Catholics. By your own church's teachings, the Orthodox are guilty of at most schism, and are in full communion with the Catholic Church as far as it itself is concerned (cf. Paul VI).

The person doing all the attacking in this thread has been you -- with assists credited to Jason and Shelby. And I would venture to guess that in the eyes of every non-Catholic involved here, and I'd bet at least one Catholic, you have won the battle but lost the war.

Jesus Christ himself gave us the touchstone to know who His true disciples were, and where truth can be found. It's in the 13th chapter of John.

And you have been showing Christian charity, grace, and mercy to such an extent that Fred Phelps is taking notes in envy of your skill.

It is not for me to say this, but I sincerely think you need to repent, get off your high horse, and start acting like a Christian woman instead of the Arbiter of Catholic Doctrine to whom Pope Benedict looks when he needs to be set straight about something.

Forgive me, but a little straight talk of the Dutch Uncle variety seemed called for.

Basil, when opportunity presents, would you kindly explain oikonomia and its relationship to doctrinal rigidity in a bit more depth?

She isn’t doing that and neither are we. The EO makes this claim (as we do) that they are the ‘true’ Church all Theresa is doing along with myself an Jason is taking them to task to prove these claims.

Their claim to fame is that they do not change doctrine and they strictly follow what Christ laid out and we are only pointing out that this is not true, their teaching on marriage and divorce is not rooted in scripture or tradition. If it is, all they have to do is show us this and we can be done here.
That is all any of us have done, is ask them to back all this up by showing us where it is found in revelation to be true.

 

[Iollain]

you guys are probably not talking about this subject now, but i've found some other verses about divorce besides fornication:




1Cr 7:10 And unto the married I command, [yet] not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from [her] husband:


1Cr 7:11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to [her] husband: and let not the husband put away [his] wife.


1Cr 7:12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.


1Cr 7:13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.


1Cr 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.


1Cr 7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such [cases]: but God hath called us to peace.


1Cr 7:16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save [thy] husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save [thy] wife?


1Cr 7:17 But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.


The way it looks, God commands for a husband and wife to be forever faithful to each other, .....but there seems to be forgiveness and terms for divorce as well.

 

[Benedicta00]

There's winners here?

Funny, I thought this was just a discussion board.

Ask Basil he brought this up, not me.

 

[Benedicta00]

you guys are probably not talking about this subject now, but i've found some other verses about divorce besides fornication:




1Cr 7:10 And unto the married I command, [yet] not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from [her] husband:


1Cr 7:11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to [her] husband: and let not the husband put away [his] wife.


1Cr 7:12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.


1Cr 7:13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.


1Cr 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.


1Cr 7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such [cases]: but God hath called us to peace.


1Cr 7:16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save [thy] husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save [thy] wife?


1Cr 7:17 But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.


The way it looks, God commands for a husband and wife to be forever faithful to each other, .....but there seems to be forgiveness and terms for divorce as well.

And the Church calls this the Pauline Privilege.

 

[Benedicta00]

Are you going to take your own advice?

I think I did. No where have I defended and tried to water down the Catholic Church’s sex scandal problem.

 

[eoe]

Still discussing the nastiness that is divorce eh?

I tried....


Another really great thing about becoming Orthodox is that you have access to a ton of really great writings that are 1000+ years old and are yet still relevant today. St John Chrysostom wrote about abortion and he was a patriarch of Constantinople in the 4th century! That is pretty cool if you ask me.

 

[CaDan]

Well, now that that's over, let's sow the field with salt and move along.

Meanwhile, we still have some cookies and eggnog.

 

[GraceInHim]

Well, now that that's over, let's sow the field with salt and move along.

Meanwhile, we still have some cookies and eggnog.

yummy