Why I'm Orthodox . . . and why others may want to be too.

[RottenApple]

De gustibus non disputandem est.

 

[thereselittleflower]

I understand the argument that God's grace allegedley is given to the Pope, so that when speaking ex cathedra, is it?, he is infallible. This grace is given to solidify unity in the Church under this earthly head, but I cannot support this innovation.

Just more of the same Basil . . . unsupported CLAIMS . . . your personal, anti-Catholic propaganda . . .

NO OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE!


You are just taking pot shots at Catholicism Basil . . . You are presenting your presonal opinoin as if it is proven fact . . .

You claim Papal Infalliblity is an INNOVATION . .

You assume facts not in evidence . . .


WHERE is your objective evidence Basil . . . do you understand what the words "objective" and "evidence" mean?

The Church is perserved from error,

How?

but individual men can become corrupted by pride, arrogance, flattery, power, money, immorality, etc. The bishops have always been equal, creating a safety net to preserve the truth against those who would toss apostolic tradition out the window.

How?

I agree that we should keep our debate kind during this holy season.

Then you should not go making negative statements about our faith to support your opinion of your own and fail to back them up with objective evidence as required by this site . . .


In fact, to invite others to look at your faith, you shouldn't have to put down anyone else's at all . . .

So why have you?



How kind is that?

I am not heated up about this, I'm not anti-Roman Catholic,

You don't have to be "heated up" to be anti-Catholic . . . . one can be cool as a cucumber and still be horribly anti-Catholic.

I just must defend the truth.

YOUR version of the truth which, so far in this thread, has absolutely NO objective evidence to back it up . . especially your NEGATIVE version of the "truth" regarding everyone else's Church . . .

Any church that raises itself up against the Universal Church established by Christ,

Careful what you say Basil . . . . you may not be saying what you think you are saying . . .

must be torn down, not with violence, but by exposing its error.

I see . . so this thread WASN'T about YOUR faith after all . . . it was about TEARING DOWN all OTHER Christian faiths that YOU PERSONALLY feel are in error . . .


I see . . . I think we all see now the real motivation behind this thread . .

Not out of anger or spite, but out of compassion for those who are led astray.

Yep . . I can see that . . how you started off as if you were making this thread about YOUR faith with a few pot shots at Catholicism and other Christian faith groups, then we see it is about TEARING DOWN everything other than the Orthodox Church . . .

And at Advent too . . . . .very enlightening . . .

Forgive me, if my debate has been felt as assault. The truth sometimes is offensive, but it's not my motive to offend.

Basil . . when your motivation is to TEAR DOWN, then it is an ASSAULT . .

If something looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it usually is a duck . .

I feel bad, not good, that this conversation upsets some of you, but history stands showing us the way home to Christ.

Basil

You should feel bad . . . you are being offensive. You aren't even doing us the courtesy of providing the OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE you are required to provide when you make such statements. Unless you are prepared to back up your negative statemnets of our faith with objective evidence, then it would better for you not to have made them at all . . .



Peace to all

 

[CaDan]

I apologize.

 

[thereselittleflower]

We shouild all live with the knowledge we may die anytime . . . it is ominous, but true. Who would want to die outside Christ's Church, if there really is one Church that was established by Him?

Well then, you have just said then clearly and uniquivocalby that I am outside Chrsit's Church and if I die where I am, without returning to the Orthodox faith, this is a very ominous thing . .. The only thing that can be so ominous is that I would go to hell if I die where I am . . .


So you have just said I personally am going to hell Basil if I were to die without havning returned to the Orthodox Church . . . .


That's very kind and charitable, I see . . . . and at Advent too . . .



Peace to all

 

[thereselittleflower]

Isaiah, I like your signature:

Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the True Church of Jesus Christ."
~St. Athanasius

Of course with the clarification that this quote certainly was not referring to the modern Roman Catholic Church, but the Universal Church that existed in the time of Athanasius, which triumphed over heresy.

Basil

PROVE it Basil . . . . Again . . . lots of empty claims . . NO objective evidence . . .



Peace to all

 

[CaDan]

PROVE it Basil . . . . Again . . . lots of empty claims . . NO objective evidence . . .



Peace to all

Have you sown peace here, my sister?
Have you sown healing?

I beg you, please stop.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Shelb,
I am sure that it was unintentional but by saying that an EO is anti-catholic youare saying that the EO church is not catholic. As the EO church is catholic we can not in fact be anti-catholic....

That's not what we are saying . . . there are particular EO's .. particular members here who are EO and anti-Catholic and you know what we mean when we say that . . .you know that we don't mean you are anti-the universal faith . . .


So please, don't play semmantical games . .. it would be better if you could convince your brother here to stop taking pot shots at us during Advent . . .

And I mean by pot shots: making negative statements against our faith without providing OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE to back it up as required by the rules of this site.

The truth is:
You have better hats and we have better beards.

LOL Agreed!

Either you believe that Rome is in schism or that the other 4 patriarchs left the true church.

I believe we are in schism to each other . . . one side did not leave the other .. both sides left each other . . .

On this there will be no agreement. It is a topic on which we as EO or RC must take sides. It does not mean that we can not love one another tho.

I think when we can all come to the point of recognizing we both superficially left each other but have not really left each other at all, that we can begin to heal the breach . . .


The disagreements that are apparent today are fueled by propaganda . . .nothing more . . .



Peace to all

 

[Debi1967]

Can we both stop spitting in each other's faces during this season of advent when we should be focusing on repentance? Please?

This ladies and gentlemen is a very valid point .....

Why are we as Holy Apostolic catholics from either side turning on one another in such a public fashion? Does this do either Church in reality any good to be fighting amongst ourselves? And especially during such a High season for us?

Let us reason this out and think about this logically we have had this for a millenia almost now .... It is not something new, and it is something that will need to be healed in a fashion that only the Hierarchy of both Churches will decide if they do .... To go after one another in such fashion publically is not Christlike and does not further the advancement of the Holy Apostolic catholic (note the small c there) Church in anyway... In fact all it does is bolster our opponents with more fuel to the fire which neither side can afford .....

Christ Himself cannot afford it either .... and please remember that we are in schism with one another ..... remember what that word means too ..... To say that someone is out of the Church completely because they are not Orthodox or Vatican Catholic si wrong indeed .... that is not Schism that is excommunication .... Be careful Brethren please fo how we treat one another .... we of all people will be held accountable for such actions towards one another more highly than others .....

Lovingly In Christ
Debi

 

[joyfulthanks]

De gustibus non disputandem est.

"There's no accounting for taste."

You insultin' the Grace sisters here, bro? You'd better watch out, we'll send Euphrosyne after you!


Blessed Advent!


With love in Christ,
Grace

 

[thereselittleflower]

Have you sown peace here, my sister?
Have you sown healing?

I beg you, please stop.

CeADan

I am tired with the constant anti-Catholic bashing that goes on in GT . . I am fed up with it . . . people are constantly making negative statements about our faith and never providing the objective evidence for it . . . .

And when it comes from some of our Orthodox Brethern it is the worst of all . . .

I am sorry you don't agree with my decision to call Basil to account for his negative statements against our faith by backing them up with objective evidence, but "peacefully" sitting by is not always the right answer . . .


Now. . what do you want to discuss? The topic of this thread? Or me?


Peace to all

 

[CaDan]

How about we take a cue from Benedict (y'know, the Pope), and stop YELLING at our brethren and start loving them?

But call me crazy.

 

[thereselittleflower]

How about we take a cue from Benedict (y'know, the Pope), and stop YELLING at our brethren and start loving them?

But call me crazy.

I realize you don't understand, but yelling is not simply putting selected words in all caps . . I think you know that too . . .


Thank you though for making me the subject of your posts. . . . Maybe it would be best if you just left this alone . . .



Peace to all

 

[Debi1967]

I realize you don't understand, but yelling is not simply putting selected words in all caps . . I think you know that too . . .


Thank you though for making me the subject of your posts. . . . Maybe it would be best if you just left this alone . . .



Peace to all

Sister
remove yourself from the situation please and breathe ..... sorry don't be mad at me either

think about this for a minute

It is me talking now ok and I love you with all my heart .... you are indeed my best friend on this site and off .... but I have to say I feel like you talking to me during one of my times here ....

Yes you have a right to be angry I am not saying that .... it is justified but are they really listening and will any of this do us any good? They are trying to bait you and it is working do not allow it ..... as you would say to me and there are otehr factors that otehrs do not know of that I think are contributing to this which are making you come off harsher than you intend .....

Maybe????? HUH????

Lovingly
me

 

[CaDan]

Where there is hatred, let me sow love;
where there is injury,pardon;
where there is doubt, faith;
where there is despair, hope;
where there is darkness, light;
and where there is sadness, joy

The Prayer of Saint Francis

That's what Christmas is all about, Charlie Brown.

 

[GraceInHim]

I left a prayer on Cease -fire ~ love St. Francis

 

[Annabel Lee]

Where there is hatred, let me sow love;
where there is injury,pardon;
where there is doubt, faith;
where there is despair, hope;
where there is darkness, light;
and where there is sadness, joy

The Prayer of Saint Francis

That's what Christmas is all about, Charlie Brown.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Sister
remove yourself from the situation please and breathe ..... sorry don't be mad at me either

think about this for a minute

It is me talking now ok and I love you with all my heart .... you are indeed my best friend on this site and off .... but I have to say I feel like you talking to me during one of my times here ....

Yes you have a right to be angry I am not saying that .... it is justified but are they really listening and will any of this do us any good? They are trying to bait you and it is working do not allow it ..... as you would say to me and there are otehr factors that otehrs do not know of that I think are contributing to this which are making you come off harsher than you intend .....

Maybe????? HUH????

Lovingly
me

Debi . . . it is important that the point be gotten across that if people are going to take pot shots at our Church or anyone elses, they better be prepared to back it up wih objective evidence.

That is what this has all been about . . . You know this . . . you also know why it is necessary to point this out continuously . . . . Notice the pot shots have stopped. . . When people are required to pony up and not allowed an wiggle room, then either they pony up or they stop.

I am done giving wiggle room. Period.





Peace to all

 

[Debi1967]

Wiggle wiggle

Sorry I could not resist ..... I already know you point is taken it was taken already ..... thus the reason I said you were justified

 

[djns9437]

It is unbecoming of you to throw around insults. According to the Pope of Rome and the Catechism of the Catholic Church, we are not protestants and you know that very well (or should know that if you hold the same faith as the icon you wear).

Now can we all stop this ****ing match?

Its obvious he's protesting the Catholic Church,isn't it?

 

[Debi1967]

Its obvious he's protesting the Catholic Church,isn't it?

ACtually he is right according to the Pope and to the Vatican they are Not technically Protestants they are Schism and there is a difference
Definition of Protestant in the Church
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12495a.htm
Definition of Schism in the Church
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13529a.htm

Schism of the East
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13535a.htm

Please stop saying something that is direct defiance with what our Pontiff has said ... they are not ex-communicated Members of the Church and they still are Holy Apostolic catholic ..... They are NOT Protestants as they are not reformers .... and therefore they are in SCHISM with the Church which is a whole different ball of wax .... We are regarded in the same fashion by them .... In SCHISM, they are still our Brethren