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One definition of the word attack (is to speak or write against in order to harm.)What does being an instrument of peace mean to you?CaDan said:
If they ain't got swords an' scalin' ladders, I think it is far from an attack.
And even in the face of an attack, the words of Saint Francis still hold true, wouldn't you agree?
djns9437 said:One definition of the word attack (is to speak or write against in order to harm.)What does being an instrument of peace mean to you?
Where is the concrete proof these things were not taught from the beginning? Do you want me to cut and past the early Church fathers here? Read the writings of the earliest Church fathers, such as Saint Irenaeus, Saint Ignatius, Saint Clement of Rome, which you can find here: www.ccel.org/fathers2/ . Then compare that with a Roman Catholic Mass, or any catechismal work from the Roman Catholic Church.
thereselittleflower said:Vanshan . . .May I suggest that you take more care in choosing your sources.
thereselittleflower said:But that isn't to say that the title didn't -- and doesn't -- have a proper sense of which Gregory approved. If meant in the sense that the Bishop of Rome is the leader of all the bishops, the title is correct. If it means he is the only bishop and all the other "bishops" are not really successors to the apostles, it's false.
What Gregory condemned was the expropriation of the title Universal Bishop by Bishop John the Faster, the patriarch of Constantinople, who proclaimed himself Universal Bishop at the Synod of Constantinople in 588. Gregory condemned the patriarch's act because universal jurisdiction applies solely to the pope.
CaDan said:Very little is worth "fighting" for here. Arguing, yes. But not fighting or quarrelling. Far too much of what goes on here is quarelling or fighting, not arguing.
Lemme tell you something.
I'm good at arguing. Very, very good. I've done forensic debate since I was sixteen. I have been on national championship collegiate teams. I have judged out rounds at national tournaments.
I've practiced plaintiff's consumer protection law for more than a decade. Li'l ol' me tangles with the big downtown boys every day.
And you know what? It's fun. It's lots of fun.
But that, my friend, is argument.
What goes on at CF, I have learned, is something subtly different. Sure, the principles of Aristotle's Rhetoric still apply, but there is no decision, no judgment, no ballot at the end of the thread. Rather, we are surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses. And they, in the end and in their hearts, decide whether or not our performance has been edifying.
No one here wants to see my professional persona. That privilege is reserved for debt collectors, scam artists, and repo men. How would that be edifying here? Here is the home of my brothers and sisters. I will not treat them that way.
So, I confess that I poke some pompous bubbles. I spread some ice cream. I sing my little songs.
I'd prefer not to dance the same old dour dance of outrage. Too much blood has been spilt over it; too many people have been driven away by it.
vanshan said:This confusion may have fed the minds of those corrupt Patriarch's of Rome who wanted to grab power to themselves, which had never been given by Christ, to them. Their lust for power sealed their fate and led one of the ancient patriarchates to swerve off course and collide face to face with the One True Church, of which Christ alone is the Head. They were anathematized as history shows and are still outside the true Universal Church.
Basil
geocajun said:Dan,
People here are trying to help others find the fullness of truth which can only be had within the Catholic Church.
geocajun said:Dan,
People here are trying to help others find the fullness of truth which can only be had within the Catholic Church. You may not find that important enough to argue about, but we are called the Church Militant for a reason. We are soldiers in a great spiritual battle for souls and there simply nothing in this world more important than finding the truth and spreading the word of God. If we wimp out from our duty under the premise of "way to much blood has been spilt..." then we may want to examine our own conviction of our faith. As it is, the only people I see CaDan arguing with are his "Brethren".
vanshan said:What you missed, if you read the full article, was that the title of Universal Patriarch, really is just a poor translation of the title Ecumenical Patriarch, which assumes no power over others, just honor for being the patrirach of the imperial city. This is the Orthodox view of the structure of the Church. Most protestants would also agree with this view from their readings in the scriptures. The apostles were equals, all fulfilling the role of bishops of Christ's Church. There was no universal Apostle, and has never been a Universal Bishop. The problem between the Patriarch of Constantinople and the Patriarch of Rome, was largely a semantic problem--the Patriarch in Constantinople was not suggesting Universal Supremecy, and from Saint Gregory's words, he clearly was not either. Just primacy in honor, not power.
CaDan said:We are called brothers. We actually are brothers. We share a common destiny in this life and the next. Why, then, do we act as though we are foes and enemies? Why do we envy one another? Why do we stir up hatred? Why do we ready lethal weapons for use against our brothers?
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Dan, we don't act as foes and enemies - we act as though we care too much to permit our fellow man to sit in the dark when our Lord has instructed us to spread the gospel.CaDan said:I have a slightly different view:
We are called brothers. We actually are brothers. We share a common destiny in this life and the next. Why, then, do we act as though we are foes and enemies? Why do we envy one another? Why do we stir up hatred? Why do we ready lethal weapons for use against our brothers?
There has already been enough warfare among men! Too many youths in the flower of life have shed their blood already! Legions of the dead, all fallen in battle, dwell within this earth of ours. Their stern voices urge us all to return at once to harmony, unity, and a just peace.
All men, then, should turn their attention away from those things that divide and separate us, and should consider how they may be joined in mutual and just regard for one another's opinions and possessions.
But call me crazy.
geocajun said:Dan, we don't act as foes and enemies - we act as though we care too much to permit our fellow man to sit in the dark when our Lord has instructed us to spread the gospel.
You say we share a common destiny, and I say I thats a dangerous assumption. The cost of that assumption might just be the salvation of yourself and/or your brother. We cannot bury our talents in the sand, and we are in fact our brothers keeper.
Its been said that "if you wish to approach heaven, you better not come alone." I believe that Dan, and I don't presume that folks will be with me just because the world calls them 'good'. I do wish to approach heaven, and I plan to take some folks with me
I'm referring to your commentCaDan said:Who says this?
Google is your friend!
CaDan said:"We share a common destiny in this life and the next"
vanshan said:"When God created us, He gave us life and breathed His Spirit into us. That Spirit is Love. When we lack love, we become corpses and are altogether dead." --Gerontissa Gavrielia
Basil
Shelb5 said:CeDan,
All any of us ever have here is hope because we as baptized children have been washed clean of original sin and have been reconciled to God through Christ but we have to be willing to follow him all our lives if we will reach heaven. Following him includes following what his Church, that he left for us, teaches us.
I do hope at a person's death, someone who does have faith and true love for Jesus will be given the grace to have their eyes truly open and accept Christs bride, along with Christ. I hope and pray that God has not hardened their hearts and they will be open to accept him and his bride when they meet him.
You cant deny his Church but accept him, and expect to dwell in heaven. His Church is his bride. Would you welcome in a person who blatantly denied your bride even after you gave them much grace to accept her?
I hope as you do for all Christians and that is all any of can do- hope and pray that all will come to the knowledge of god and be saved.
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