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Why I'm not a young earth creationist...

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Astrid

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I won't comment on your bible- reading but the " science " is
a terrible mishmash of errors and nonsense.

Just one simple example which you will
neither acknowledge nor correct-

There is no theory that the Gulf of Mexico
was formed by impact of any sort.
Paleontologists are not the ones who
study craters any more than dentists are.
Nor are archeologists whose role you similarly
don't know.

In skimming your post, I didn't see anything
that touched on science that was not as bad
or worse. Such egregious errors only discredit
everything else you say.

As I've commented elsewhere, it's a sad and
shakey faith that has to be propped up with
garbage.

Cobbler, stick to your last, they say.
 
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Astrid

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Reference to "out of place " fossils can only be found in
creationist sites.
Similarly, the effect of planets on your personality is only
talked about in astrology publications.
 
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Astrid

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Ironically, Young Earth Creationists use the exact same logic to argue for Young Earth Creationism.

It's kind of why thinking people will want to cross reference
their bible- interpreting.

Lest they determine that Pi=3.0
 
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Astrid

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Know to be false?

Millions.

See communist armies.
 
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Hans Blaster

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Couldn't God create stars at any stage of development? Couldn't God create a star set to have a supernova tomorrow or the next day if he wanted to?

If the intent is to deceive, then yes of course it could.

There are clusters of stars that have apparent ages of 12-13 billion years when you apply the physics inside stars to a model that evolves the star from a proto-star to the present state. There is no reason that these stars should appear to have these ages if they are not in fact that old. So either they *are* that old, or some being intentionally made them appear so to people that would not have the skill to make the determination until very recently.
 
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Hans Blaster

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Frankly, AV, I find this post offensive. It is complete fiction made up by you whole cloth.

Nicholas Sanduleak was (perhaps is) a Romanian-American astronomer who cataloged bright stars in the Large Magellanic Cloud.

A deep objective-prism survey for Large Magellanic Cloud members

The star of which you speak Sanduleak -69 202 is the 202nd star in that catalog and located at -69 degrees declination. The previous year he made a similar catalog of the SMC.

The blatant falsehood of the quoted narrative illustrates how easily pseudo-religious texts can be generated that have no basis in fact.
 
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AV1611VET

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I know Sanduleak was the name given by astronomers to the supernova star; but I'm not aware of any "Sanduleak" named in Scripture.
I'm not aware of his name in Scripture either, Righterzpen, but I use "Sanduleak" only as a reference point.

We know that God not only counted the stars, but gave them names as well.

Psalm 147:4 He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by their names.

And since I don't know what name God gave to SN1987A's star, I use "Sanduleak," the same name scientists named it, after its inhabitant.*

* Some believe, as do I, that stars are angels' domiciles.

Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

sons of God = angels
 
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AV1611VET

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Frankly, AV, I find this post offensive. It is complete fiction made up by you whole cloth.
Then ignore it.

Don't have a cow about it.
Hans Blaster said:
Nicholas Sanduleak was (perhaps is) a Romanian-American astronomer who cataloged bright stars in the Large Magellanic Cloud.
Good.

I was aware that the star was named after a "Sanduleak," I just didn't know his first name.

I'm only using that name as a reference, since I don't know the angel's real name.

I would claim, for example, that the angel Alderbaran lives on Alderbaran, if I needed to make a point about an angel "leaving his first estate;" that is, his home.

No harm, no foul.
Hans Blaster said:
The star of which you speak Sanduleak -69 202 is the 202nd star in that catalog and located at -69 degrees declination. The previous year he made a similar catalog of the SMC.
So what?

Scientists named it "Sanduleak." That's good enough for me.
Hans Blaster said:
The blatant falsehood of the quoted narrative illustrates how easily pseudo-religious texts can be generated that have no basis in fact.
Wow.

Suit yourself.

As long as that light bulb stays out ... mission accomplished, I guess.
 
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The Righterzpen

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You are entitled to your own opinion, but since we do not base our conclusions upon the same authority; there's no place this conversation can go.

Yet if you care to be informed about "Gulf of Mexico meteor theory". (I'm sure there are other publications besides the BBC.) Also, paleontologists are the ones who study dinosaur fossils and they are the ones who came up with the theory that this asteroid is what caused their extinction.

Dinosaur asteroid hit 'worst possible place'

Have a nice day.
 
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The Righterzpen

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I'm not aware of his name in Scripture either, Righterzpen, but I use "Sanduleak" only as a reference point.

And since I don't know what name God gave to SN1987A's star, I use "Sanduleak," the same name scientists named it, after its inhabitant.*

Fair enough conclusion here! Your point is well taken.

* Some believe, as do I, that stars are angels' domiciles.

Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Not sure if I've ever heard this belief that stars are angels' domiciles. I may have heard this elsewhere, but the idea doesn't ring particularly familiar to me.

I had looked at this verse in Job once and came to the conclusion that "morning stars" (which is plural in Hebrew) and "sons of God" (MIGHT) be different "classes" / "types" of angels. We do have "cherubim and seraphim". Michael is called an "archangel". etc. So I think there is credence for assuming some type of different forms of angelic host.

Also, I believe the context of Job 38:7 is actually prior to the creation of material "stars" (or "suns" as we might also say). Nothing in the Genesis narrative tells us specifically when angels were created. By comparing Genesis and Job though; I think we can reasonably conclude that angels were created on the first day; because Job does talk about them witnessing the laying of the foundations of the earth. So I think they were the first "beings" made.

Now, whether or not there existed some format of "material universe"; "without form and void" (as we understand it now) that existed when angels were created? That I don't know.

Assuming from the account in Genesis that some sort of "material" something existed. "... earth was without form and void and darkness upon the face of the deep...."

"And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters" in Hebrew actually means that the entrance of the Spirit of God into this void / formless ignition of creation actually was what "created" water. Water is the first fundamental element of life.

We do know the first "material object" (besides water) God spoke into existence was light. Which materially speaking; light isn't really an "object" because photons don't have mass. Now what exactly is light? Is it a form of energy? (Appears to be.) We know it exists on the electromagnetic spectrum. We know that it certainly renders a form of energy; but what it "is" though; that might be a little hard to define.

What we do see in the text is that God separated the light from the darkness. So was "light" part of the "ignited" universe also? I'd have to look more closely at the text; because all this happens "on the first day"; and assuming the order of what happened that day is sequential? Which, Hebrew can be funny that way. In context of what happens in a given day; it may not be sequential. I'd have to look more closely at the context of the words.

Where this gets tricky though is that Satan was also called "morning star" (Isaiah 14:12 equates the "king of Babylon" to Satan. Calls him the "morning star".) And there's no evidence from Scripture that there's more than one "satan". Now there may have been more than one "morning star" type "angel" created. (That seems to be the case from Job.) And the other(s) never fell. But; can't really get more definitive that that. (Or at least as per what I found in Scripture. I.E. there may be information there that I'm not aware of.)

Now I did dig through the passages that talk about angels and nephilim. But since God is the author of life and angels don't reproduce; the "mighty men of old" were indeed human flesh and blood who had human mothers and fathers.

Yet according to what I've been able to piece together from the various passages; apparently there was some sort of collaborative effort / agreement between these demons and humans to receive some sort of angelic knowledge. (Which appears to be manifest as false religion.) There is another passage in (Exodus or Leviticus) that uses the term "mighty men of renown" that define them as cleric leaders of Moses's day.

Which carries over in an interesting parallel when John the Baptist and Jesus tell the leaders of Israel that they are "of their father the devil". Obviously Satan was not their material father; but certainly their spiritual father.

So obviously some of this has to be pieced together using things we learn from other parts of Scripture to get a proper grip on what these more difficult texts are saying.

There's also references in Daniel that call disembodied saints "the watchers". Now "the watcher" terminology is also used in the extra-Biblical writing of "the book of Enoch"; although it's not used in a Biblical way. I believe "the book of Enoch" states that "the watchers" are the "angel" part of nephilim once the body has died. Which of course that can't be because angels don't reproduce. God is the author of life. A demon can not produce a biological entity. Material life and angels are two very different forms of created entities.

Now the other subject we could shoot off of this is what is the recreated heavens and earth like? Which we can't really answer that in "material explanation" as we understand the material world now.

When Jesus rose from the dead; He wasn't raised "a spiritual body". (Scripture never defines the resurrection as that.) The same body that went in the grave is the one that came out of the grave. He came out of the grave still materially human. Which this is central to the doctrine of a bodily resurrection. The material creation is part of the redemption plan. And if you go back into Exodus a minute; Moses could not see God in His glory because "no man can see God and live".

So thus when Jesus rose from the dead; He could not have come out "glorified" because He still resided on this corrupt earth for 40 days. This is why when Christ returns in glory; the current cosmos is destroyed and recreated. That happens because God in His glory can not coincide in a corrupted universe. The corrupted cosmos can't "handle" Him. This is why when Christ returns it's Judgement Day.

Which again though; these theological topics could be the subject of their own threads.
 
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Hans Blaster

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Oh the irony.

The Gulf of Mexico wasn't formed by the meteor. The Meteor collided with the Gulf of Mexico. If you actually read the article you linked it says the collision was worse than it could have been because of the place where it struck. (Throwing sulfur into the air, etc.)

It was Walter Alvarez (a geologist) and his father Luis (a Nobel-prize winning particle physicist) that are primarily responsible for the collision explanation for the K-T boundary.

In your original claim, you stated that the meteor collision formed the Gulf, but the crater is only about 1/100th of the area of the Gulf, and half of it is on the Yucatan Peninsula.
 
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Astrid

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I know about the asteroid.
There is no theory that the Gulf of Mexico
was formed by an impact.
Cute try at weaseling out of admitting your
statement was false.
 
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The Righterzpen

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I know about the asteroid.
There is no theory that the Gulf of Mexico
was formed by an impact.
Cute try at weaseling out of admitting your
statement was false.

Yet.... they find evidence of this asteroid at the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico..... And... the asteroid had nothing to do with the formation of the Gulf of Mexico? How are you so sure of that?



Cute try at weaseling out of admitting your statement was false.
 
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The Righterzpen

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And again I say the same thing to you.

The evidence of the meteor was found at the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico. And so.... how are YOU so sure it wasn't responsible for forming the Gulf of Mexico?

Which in reality; my original statement was about it being a factor in the cause of the extinction of the dinosaurs. Which @Estrid claimed that it wasn't even a theory that existed.

Well.... so much for @Estrid's knowledge of theories on dinosaur extinction - ehh!!!
 
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BNR32FAN

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You earth creationist are simply believing literally what the scriptures say took place. There’s no assumptions being made at all.

Perhaps the reason the earth appears to be older than it is, is because God intended for it to appear that way for the same reason that Jesus spoke in parables. So that those who don’t want to believe won’t.
 
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The Righterzpen

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I really don't think it's a matter of how God intended something to appear. I think it's more a matter of "men suppress the truth in unrighteousness". The deception in human hearts doesn't actually change the evidence that's there.

Now they will never admit that the evidence is there and here is a plausible explanation of that evidence; because their goal is to deny the Creator. That's why they suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

That's all this whole argument is really about.
 
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Ponderous Curmudgeon

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And again I say the same thing to you.

The evidence of the meteor was found at the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico. And so.... how are YOU so sure it wasn't responsible for forming the Gulf of Mexico?
except that it was not found at the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico. In fact the asteroid was not even found. What was found was evidence of an asteroid strike most of which is currently under the surface of the GOM. start here
 
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The Righterzpen

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except that it was not found at the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico. In fact the asteroid was not even found. What was found was evidence of an asteroid strike most of which is currently under the surface of the GOM. start here

But that still doesn't mean it didn't have a hand in the formation of the Gulf of Mexico. A lot of things happened on Earth as a result of the flood of Noah's day.

And do we know that wasn't the only asteroid that hit the area? If it was actually an asteroid that broke into pieces; it may have been a secondary hit. Is there other evidence in the Gulf of Mexico of an asteroid hit? Has anyone even attempted to figure that out? (If they haven't; it would be worth investigating.)
 
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Hans Blaster

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And again I say the same thing to you.

The evidence of the meteor was found at the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico. And so.... how are YOU so sure it wasn't responsible for forming the Gulf of Mexico?

Because the meteor impact was on the edge of the Gulf:



It's small compared to the Gulf and at the edge of it. Now how would that crater formed by that meteor be responsible for *creating* the Gulf of Mexico.
 
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Astrid

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except that it was not found at the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico. In fact the asteroid was not even found. What was found was evidence of an asteroid strike most of which is currently under the surface of the GOM. start here

"Suppress the truth in unrighteousness...."

Almost like a touch of that irony you sometimes
hear of.
 
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