Daniel Marsh
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Ah yes the old evidence is lost shtick. But even what you did quote was not what you falsely claimed in the first post I replied to. I learned to read when Roosevelt was president and I have been to grad school I don't require clarification of the article I posted which was in standard English. And none of your explanation/clarification is supported by anything in my post.The letter is now long lost, but it was preserved in the writings of Bede, one of the founding English Historians. Bede was Catholic from the dark ages, I doubt he would lie about the words of the Pope, because back then those kinds of acts were believed to send you directly to Hell. I understand you want to argue, just to argue since I doubt you did any research about the letter, that is completely fine but for others so they are not deceived. The letter from the Pope tells us this:
1. "the temples of the idols in that nation ought not to be destroyed", so we know he does not want any of the holy landmarks of the pagan's destroyed and turned instead to Christian sites of worship.
2. "that the nation, seeing that their temples are not destroyed, may remove error from their hearts, and knowing and adoring the true God, may the more familiarly resort to the places to which they have been accustomed." He wanted the transition to Christian to be easier, and the people would be offended if the Catholic missionaries showed up and just started to destroy all their holy sites.
3. "about those churches which have been turned to that use from temples, and celebrate the solemnity with religious feasting, and no more offer beasts to the Devil, but kill cattle to the praise of God in their eating, and return thanks to the Giver of all things for their sustenance;" Here the Pope tells him for them to CONTINUE "religious feasting" and "kill cattle", but now instead of to devil that the festivals and animal sacrifice was done in God's name.
4. "For there is no doubt that it is impossible to efface everything at once from their obdurate minds; because he who endeavours to ascend to the highest place, rises by degrees or steps, and not by leaps." The Pope justifies the allowing of pagan festivals and animal sacrifice as long as it is done in God's name, because it would be "impossible to efface everything at once" but the missionaries in England had to "rise by degrees or steps, and not by leaps".
I am not insulting Catholics, I was raised Catholic and I think of all the religions they have more of a heart for God since more Christian religions are quicker to say if you disagree with them you are possessed by the Devil. Granted the Catholics did the same damnation in middle ages, but they learned it only hurt the Church, while all other Christian religions are too new to grasp the consequences of their actions. But facts of the origins of Christmas and other Holidays has nothing to do with Bible or God's law, it is human history. [Repeating the same false assertions over and over does not make them true. DA] Either you know the history or not, the only holy day in the new Covenant is Passover.
I'm hoping my children don't pay too much attention to the gold and fine wine sections.....else I'd be better of buying them toys.....Now that is biblical
Just throw in a little gold and fine wine with that........
Matthew 2:11
and having come to the house, they found the Child with Mary His mother, and having fallen down they bowed to Him,
and having opened their treasures, they presented to Him gifts, gold, and frankincense, and myrrh,
Luke 21:
5 and of some saying concerning the Temple, that to goodly stones and votive-offerings<334> it has been adorned<2885>
6 “These which ye are beholding.
Shall be coming days in which not shall be being left stone upon stone here which not shall be being thrown-down<2647>
Revelation 18:
12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
13 And cinnamon, and incense, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
1 Chronocles 9:29
Some of them also were appointed to oversee the vessels, and all the instruments of the Sanctuary, and the fine flour, and the wine, and the oil, and the frankincense, and the spices.
Sure there was, and I was very specific about what was false. But if you want to engage in a childish "Did not! Did too!", you will forgive me if I decline.There was no false claims.
Sure there was, and I was very specific about what was false. But if you want to engage in a childish "Did not! Did too!", you will forgive me if I decline.
I'm guessing you intend this to be some kind of point?He is named after one of the Catholic saints.
Why do you think they call Christmas as Christmas?
It is because it is Christ mass.
The mass of Christ.
The mass is a part of the Catholic church.
You tell'm Sonja!This is getting silly. I don't actually believe people are defending Santa Claus now.
Okay.
His full name is Santa Claus.
It’s no secret Lucas and Lucis are new-age "code words" for Lucifer. The Alice Bailey founded new age, occult publishing company was originally named Lucifer Publishing Company but in 1924 the name was cleverly changed to Lucis Trust. By the way, the Lucifer worshipping Lucis Trust is a major player in the works of the United Nations, formerly located in the United Nations building but now located on prime-time 1200 Wall Street.
Claus sounds a lot like "claws."
Maybe Santa Claus means "Satan's Claws"? Like a lion's "claws"?
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: (1 Peter 5:8).
Jolly Old St. Nick
While Santa and Claus may be disguising their real meaning – there is no disguising St. Nick. He is a well-known character.
Old Nick: A well-known British name of the Devil. It seems probable that this name is derived from the Dutch Nikken, the devil...
(Encyclopedia of Occultism and Parapsychology, p.650)
Nick, the devil.
(Walter W. Sleay, Concise Dictionary of English Etymology, p. 304)
Devil: Besides the name Satan, he is also called Beelzebub, Lucifer . . . and in popular or rustic speech by many familiar terms as Old Nick . . .
(Oxford English Dictionary Vol III D-E)
Actor Adam Sandler and New Line Studios are obviously aware Nick is an alias for Satan. Their movie Little Nicky is about the son of Satan named Little Nicky. A teaser for the film says, "If your mother was an angel and your father was the devil you'd be messed up too."
Source used:
SANTA CLAUS: The Great Imposter
(Note: I agree with this article, that does not mean I may agree with other things that they may teach).
ROFL!Not really, you seem to be making things up. I will leave that between you and God.
1. The name is not wrong; I left out the Deis Natalis because I figured it was understood we were talking about birthdays in general. The full name is Deis Natalis Solis Invicti.
You are describing a Latin grammar error between the nominative, and genitive case - of which I did make a mistake. But, not on the word: the root word is the same, and conjugated on my part poorly - at worst.
2. Deis Natalis Solis Invicti is celebrated on December 25 - specifically during the astronomical event in which the sun shows an increase in inclination. You are thinking of the preparation before the actual celebration of the birth of the sun - December 21 - when the sun is at its alleged lowest inclination. It "dies" for three days, and then rises again on the 25th. December 21st was the beginning of the Death and (Re)Birth of the Unconquered Sun; December 25th was the celebration of the actual (re)birth.
I don't know who those people are, but I had access to both virtual and edifice libraries in my research. We were taught about Roman history, Greco-Roman Mythology, and a good amount of world history from 2500 BC onward in my high school, and then in University I had even more resources and opportunity to do my own academic research. All of it is "pagan," but more importantly all of it is old, and regurgitated rituals based on antediluvian and early Babylonian mystery religions. You may think it is nonsense, but 1000s of years of history beg to differ. Or, if that is how you want to rationalize what you believe, then that is your prerogative.
You can go to the local Library, or Library of Congress, and I can give you the ISBN numbers of real academic literature that would make the same academic conclusions that I am regurgitation. This is nothing new, especially if you know history, or even mythology.
Please post the specific quote where Constantine claims to change the day Christians worshipped to Sunday. We will see who is making stuff up.Not really, you seem to be making things up. I will leave that between you and God.
A question for the date crowd. I have heard the "Christmas is pagan because a pagan holiday is on December 25th. Quick question. I was born on April 30. Hitler killed himself on April 30. Washington was inaugurated president on April 30th. Many historical events happened on April 30.
I am not defending Santa Claus. I am asking you to stop saying that Santa means Satan, because Santa is a real girl's name. You replied with a comment that implied either I was lying or that Santa is lying about her name. And then went on to say that Lucas means Lucifer.
Santa means 'holy'. Lucas is a variation of Luke. So you are taking a name which means 'set apart to God' and a name of one of Jesus' disciples and trying to turn them into words that refer to the devil. Can't you see how wrong this is?
My birthday is April 20... the same day as Hitler's birthday (different year, obviously). I don't think I've ever heard anyone argue that when my family celebrate my birthday, they're really celebrating Hitler's. On the other hand, it does give me an extra excuse NOT to believe in astrology and numerology and all that...
I'm guessing you intend this to be some kind of point?
A question for the date crowd. I have heard the "Christmas is pagan because a pagan holiday is on December 25th. Quick question. I was born on April 30. Hitler killed himself on April 30. Washington was inaugurated president on April 30th. Many historical events happened on April 30.
Now when I was a little boy and my parents put a cake in front of me saying "Happy Birthday" were they celebrating Washington's inauguration since that happened first, were they celebrating Hitler's death because it marked the end of Nazism, or were they celebrating my birthday because, you know, it was my birthday party? I was only a kid so I suppose there may have been people they had to disinvite who were claiming that the REAL reason my birthday party was being had was to honor Washington, but I and my friends were pretty convinced it was because I had turned a year older.
Pedantic dating arguments are an exercise in absurdity. If you want to know what the party is about, look at the banner. I checked in our manger and I didn't see a plastic baby Saturn doll sitting there, so I think we're good.
A COPY OF THE LETTER WHICH POPE GREGORY SENT TO THE ABBOT MELLITUS, THEN GOING INTO BRITAIN. [A.D. 601.]
"To his most beloved son, the Abbot Mellitus; Gregory, the servant of the servants of God. We have been much concerned, since the departure of our congregation that is with you, because we have received no account of the success of your journey. When, therefore, Almighty God shall bring you to the most reverend Bishop Augustine, our brother, tell him what I have, upon mature deliberation on the affair of the English, determined upon, viz., that the temples of the idols in that nation ought not to be destroyed; but let the idols that are in them be destroyed; let holy water be made and sprinkled in the said temples, let altars be erected, and relics placed. For if those temples are well built, it is requisite that they be converted from the worship of devils to the service of the true God; that the nation, seeing that their temples are not destroyed, may remove error from their hearts, and knowing and adoring the true God, may the more familiarly resort to the places to which they have been accustomed. And because they have been used to slaughter many oxen in the sacrifices to devils, some solemnity must be exchanged for them on this account, as that on the day of the dedication, or the nativities of the holy martyrs, whose relics are there deposited, they may build themselves huts of the boughs of trees, about those churches which have been turned to that use from temples, and celebrate the solemnity with religious feasting, and no more offer beasts to the Devil, but kill cattle to the praise of God in their eating, and return thanks to the Giver of all things for their sustenance; to the end that, whilst some gratifications are outwardly permitted them, they may the more easily consent to the inward consolations of the grace of God. For there is no doubt that it is impossible to efface everything at once from their obdurate minds; because he who endeavours to ascend to the highest place, rises by degrees or steps, and not by leaps. Thus the Lord made Himself known to the people of Israel in Egypt; and yet He allowed them the use of the sacrifices which they were wont to offer to the Devil, in his own worship; so as to command them in his sacrifice to kill beasts, to the end that, changing their hearts, they might lay aside one part of the sacrifice, whilst they retained another; that whilst they offered the same beasts which they were wont to offer, they should offer them to God, and not to idols; and thus they would no longer be the same sacrifices. This it behooves your affection to communicate to our aforesaid brother, that he, being there present, may consider how he is to order all things. God preserve you in safety, most beloved son. Given the 17th of June, in the nineteenth year of the reign of our lord, the most pious emperor, Mauritius Tiberius, the eighteenth year after the consulship of our said lord. The fourth indiction."
If you do not know your history, Anglo-Saxons followed the Norse religion. The Angleans came from Denmark, while the Saxons came from Northern Germany.
Even a Catholic encyclopedia says the same things about him. So no. You are simply buying a cover story that sounds better to you.
Imagine being so paranoid about legalistic technicalities that the actual MEANING behind something is lost on you.
At its heart paganism was a failed system of religion because it was founded around the worship of demonic false Gods. That doesn't mean every single part of Paganism was wrong. In fact in all humanity we see the same themes of worship in paganism. Why is that? Because all men have some knowledge within themselves of how God should be worshiped.
Satan's main goal, much like the antichrist's is to be worshiped in the same way God is worshiped. If pagan religions are the religions of satan, then don't you think they would have the same basic methods God requires in his worship except twisted?
Look at Judaism. They had feast days, used incense, had statuary and imagery in the temple, had sacrifices, had temples.. the list goes on. Does that make them pagan? NO. Christianity was meant to be a fulfillment of Judaism. Which is why Orthodox Churches today are built as the temple was built, and our services new versions of Jewish services with additions to show the Fulfillment Christ brought to it all.
To hate the celebration of Christ's birth regardless of its origins means you are too concerned with the wrong things.
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