Why I Think Christmas is Not Biblical (Please read OP before posting).

[LittleLambofJesus]

How about Thanksgiving and all of its decorations and pumpkin idols?

 

[Not David]

Occasional gifts on occasion is fine, but I try to keep them small and simple and something that I know that they will actually need or use.

The point here is that is not the same thing as partaking in a holiday that focuses heavily on greed and materialism. It's not the same as getting gifts for your entire family and other loved ones all at one that can sometimes put a person into financial debt, and or lead people to go to Black Friday deals and get into a fight, etc. Then there is parents telling their kids lies about Santa, which can then lead them to think Satan (I mean Santa), or St. Nicholas (*Cough* Nicolaitans - Revelation 2:6), so that when the child grows up, they will think Jesus is also a lie, too.

Thanks a lot Christmas (Christ mass, i.e. the mass of Christ).

Again, you are making a false analogy with St. Nicholas which isn't real.
Or do you also believe it's wrong to say Jesus because of "Hail Zeus"?

 

[Not David]

What O.P. doesn't realize is that his experiences aren't the same for everyone else. I'm sure in countries where Christmas isn't even legal, Christians try to celebrate it.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Neither is the Internet , so why don't you give up your computer ,and your car ,and your TV, radio , and music tapes, as since they are not in YOUR bible ,and so there fore they must be of the devil . Your fridge too , aeroplanes ,electricity ,all heating except wood . ad infinitum

Okay. Not sure how the video on Jonathan Cahn's explanation on the real date of Christ's birth has anything to do with what you said.

As for what you said:

Music tapes?
Reminds me of the 80's.

Airplanes? I am not rich, so I don't own my own private jet;
Nor would I have any desire to be rich or to own anything like that.

Scripture records the disciples owning their own homes (after Christ was risen).
Christmas is about greed and materialism.
My celebrating that holiday does not change how the majority of the world celebrates it. For example: If there was a porn day, could I do a clean version of that holiday? I imagine I could, but why would I do that? Porn is a serious sin. Believers need to repent and forsake this. Why would I partake in a day that promotes that? The same is true with greed and materialism. Christmas promotes these kinds of sins. So it should not be changed by us, but it should be avoided altogether.

 

[prodromos]

There was not false claims about Constantine. I posted a historical quote. You disagreed with it.

Lol, you posted a paraphrase of part of a historical quote, along with your false claim about Constantine decreeing Sunday to be a day of worship for Christians.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Lol, you posted a paraphrase of part of a historical quote, along with your false claim about Constantine decreeing Sunday to be a day of worship for Christians.

There was no false claims. This was done to unite the Roman Empire, christians being a part of it and was made civil law. Sunday being the day of the veneration of the sun for sun worship in paganism that was practiced at the time.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

What O.P. doesn't realize is that his experiences aren't the same for everyone else. I'm sure in countries where Christmas isn't even legal, Christians try to celebrate it.

Christians are not infallible to error.
They also may be limited in knowledge to what Christmas is about elsewhere.
They probably have no clue about the kinds of things that we are discussing here.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

We have seen scenes like this every time there is a huge discount sale or an item that people are particularly keen to get hold of which is in short supply. It's not connected with Christmas at all - bring the latest gadget out in August and you will have similar scenes. Chop 50% off the price of electricals in February - ditto. This isn't about Christmas, it's about materialism and greed.



This can't be used to show that we can't give good things to those we love. If it did, it would be telling us NOT to love those who love us, which would be ridiculous. No, what it is saying is that our love, kindness and generosity should not only be for those who can give us a return but also for those who cannot.

Your concerns about Christmas seem to be based on a set view of what Christmas is like. So you believe it's wrong because people overspend. Because people give to those who give back. Because churches have services that don't mention the resurrection or that have a nativity with three kings coming to a stable. Because people go into debt. Or overeat. Or... But none of those things are a picture of the Christmas that I know.

I've noticed that when people say their Christmas is not like that, you don't respond to their posts. Or if you do, you just rehash the things that are wrong about Christmas which they have already said are not part of their Christmas. You asked a while back if we drew closer to God over Christmas, spend time praying and worshipping Him. I said that in my family, this is the best bit. I didn't have any kind of response. Was that because our family's Christmas doesn't fit with your preconceived notions of Christmas?

Yes, it is about Christmas because people who go to Black Friday are doing so as a part of Christmas. This is the true Christmas spirit that folks do not want to see.

 

[Kerensa]

Yes, it is about Christmas because people who go to Black Friday are doing so as a part of Christmas. This is the true Christmas spirit that folks do not want to see.

I think that may be you deciding that greed and materialism are the "true Christmas spirit", rather than what the vast majority of Christians would say it is.

 

[Kaon]

Let us suppose for the sake of discussion that December 25 was held to be sacred by some group or other in the dim dark distant past. Now all you have to do is produce credible, verifiable, historical evidence that Christians anywhere chose December 25 to celebrate the birth of Jesus because supposedly the birth of the sun or some other pagan practice occurred on that day?
.....And for your info. I don't rationalize anything I am waiting for credible evidence. And I haven't seen any and strongly doubt that I ever will.

That isn't my argument - that the day was chosen because of Deis Natalis Solis Invicti. However, I did say it would make sense for the Roman Government to consolidate all alleged fall/winter festivals and holidays in the nation, and have one day that the people can share in common for the purposes of uniting them. That is just common political sense, but doesn't really say anything about the intent of the Church, for example, to choose the day which they chose. The fact remains that this day was a day celebrated by sun worshipers for thousands of years, and there is nothing in the bible canon (or apocrypha, or even gnostics) that list the birthdate of the Redeemer. So the coincidence is curious (considering we were never told to worship/celebrate/observe the birthdate of the Redeemer), because the date chosen just so happens to coincide with the birthdate of a sun god.

Even the Hebrews have a history of getting involved with strange religions that, among other types of gods, worship the sun. This is not new, which is why I am not arguing intent; I am arguing the issue of the pagan History of Christmas in general.

 

[AnnaDeborah]

Yes, it is about Christmas because people who go to Black Friday are doing so as a part of Christmas. This is the true Christmas spirit that folks do not want to see.

So what about people who behave in similar ways at other times of the year? Is it the Christmas spirit if someone behaves like this in July?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Again, you are making a false analogy with St. Nicholas which isn't real.

There are no coincidences. You may like to think our English language has no meaning, but it actually does have meaning. What of Satan, I mean Santa?

Or do you also believe it's wrong to say Jesus because of "Hail Zeus"?

You actually believe that?

See this article here:
Does the name “Jesus” actually mean “Hail, Zeus”?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So what about people who behave in similar ways at other times of the year? Is it the Christmas spirit if someone behaves like this in July?

It's like lighting a match to something dowsed in gasoline.

Yes, there are certain people who will act bad at different parts of the year. However, they are are more prone to have an incident at Black Friday because they are being compelled or obligated out of the traditions of men by a man made holiday to get lots of gifts for others.

Again, greed, consumerism, materialism, etc.

 

[Kerensa]

There are no coincidences. You may like to think our English language has no meaning, but it actually does have meaning. What of Satan, I mean Santa?

"Santa" isn't an English word originally, for a start — Santa Claus comes from the Dutch pronunciation of St Nicholas (as you probably know). So "Santa" actually derives from the word for "saint". Any resemblance it bears to the word "Satan" (which comes from an entirely different language again) is purely coincidental. It's like the fact that "God" spelled backwards is "dog"... does that mean there's any relation between the two??

You might be pleasantly surprised to learn that there are Christians out there who are working to reclaim the actual figure of St Nicholas at Christmas time and promote what he can teach us about Christliness and good deeds, instead of the secular figure of Santa Claus. Have a look at this: Who is St Nicholas? (Seriously, read about the things he is said to have done in his life and see if that's any closer to the spirit of Christ than what you've decided Christmas is.)

And this short comparison: Santa Claus and St Nicholas

When I first found that site a few years ago, it actually helped me to get over my own distaste for "Santa" and to realise that there is a real person — one whose life-example is worth considering and commemorating — beneath all the layers of commercialism and popular culture. I don't have children, but if I did, instead of pretending to them that a fat bloke on a sleigh is going to come down the chimney with their presents (I never seriously believed that one even when I was a little girl!), I'd happily teach them about the real "Santa Claus" — St Nicholas — and what he truly represents.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I
If the Redeemer was born sometime in September-October - during the week of Sukkot - then that means November-December of that year would be the earliest the wise men would be able to come to the house and see the Redeemer.

Did you see Jonathan Cahn's explanation on the date of Christ's birth?

Really great stuff here.
Well, I do not agree with his view on the Magi, but everything he says about the date is spot on. He uses the Bible and he gets it spot on.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

"Santa" isn't an English word originally, for a start — Santa Claus comes from the Dutch pronunciation of St Nicholas (as you probably know). So "Santa" actually derives from the word for "saint". Any resemblance it bears to the word "Satan" (which comes from an entirely different language again) is purely coincidental. It's like the fact that "God" spelled backwards is "dog"... does that mean there's any relation between the two??

You might be pleasantly surprised to learn that there are Christians out there who are working to reclaim the actual figure of St Nicholas at Christmas time and promote what he can teach us about Christliness and good deeds, instead of the secular figure of Santa Claus. Have a look at this: Who is St Nicholas? (Seriously, read about the things he is said to have done in his life and see if that's any closer to the spirit of Christ than what you've decided Christmas is.)

And this short comparison: Santa Claus and St Nicholas

When I first found that site a few years ago, it actually helped me to get over my own distaste for "Santa" and to realise that there is a real person — one whose life-example is worth considering and commemorating — beneath all the layers of commercialism and popular culture. I don't have children, but if I did, instead of pretending to them that a fat bloke on a sleigh is going to come down the chimney with their presents (I never seriously believed that one even when I was a little girl!), I'd happily teach them about the real "Santa Claus" — St Nicholas — and what he truly represents.

Wait. Wait a minute. You are actually defending Santa Clause?
Why do you think he is called... saint Nicholas?
He is named after one of the Catholic saints.
Why do you think they call Christmas as Christmas?
It is because it is Christ mass.
The mass of Christ.
The mass is a part of the Catholic church.

 

[Kerensa]

Wait. Wait a minute. You are actually defending Santa Clause?

I'm defending St Nicholas, if you read what I've posted (including the links).

(I should add that I'll pass on whether the various miracle stories later attributed to him are true, but the basics of his life — that from a young age, he dedicated his life to serving God and used all his inheritance to help those in need — certainly speak of Christliness to me.)

 

[AnnaDeborah]

You may like to think our English language has no meaning, but it actually does have meaning. What of Satan, I mean Santa?

'Santa' is not English. And it is a real name. Please be careful. Imagine how you would feel if you heard someone saying that your name really meant Satan! I know someone who is called Santa and she would be terribly upset if she knew someone was linking it to the name of Satan. It is Italian and actually means 'holy, set apart'.

 

[Kerensa]

Wait. Wait a minute. You are actually defending Santa Clause?
Why do you think he is called... saint Nicholas?
He is named after one of the Catholic saints.
Why do you think they call Christmas as Christmas?
It is because it is Christ mass.
The mass of Christ.
The mass is a part of the Catholic church.

And your point is...? One side of my family is Catholic.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I'm defending St Nicholas, if you read what I've posted (including the links).

(I should add that I'll pass on whether the various miracle stories later attributed to him are true, but the basics of his life — that from a young age, he dedicated his life to serving God and used all his inheritance to help those in need — certainly speak of Christliness to me.)

He is named after one of the Catholic saints.
Why do you think they call Christmas as Christmas?
It is because it is Christ mass.
The mass of Christ.
The mass is a part of the Catholic church.