• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Why I have such trouble believing in Christianity

Ave Maria

Ave Maria Gratia Plena
May 31, 2004
41,126
2,009
42
Diocese of Evansville, IN
✟121,615.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Hi everyone. :wave: Lately, I have had a lot of trouble with believing in Christianity. I currently am believing in Christianity but I find it hard to believe in a God who would condemn people to Hell simply for not believing in Him. Also, I find it hard to believe in a God who would condemn people simply for having sex before marriage. I find it hard to believe in a God who would condemn people at all. Now, I know that some people are going to say that God condemns no one but that we condemn ourselves but to me it is the same thing. Can someone on here help me out with my doubts? :confused:
 

QuakerOats

— ♥ — Living in Love — ♥ —
Feb 8, 2007
2,183
195
Ontario, Canada
✟25,814.00
Faith
Marital Status
Private
Politics
CA-Greens
PaladinGirl, let me ask you something; what makes you believe that in order to be a Christian, you must hold to the idea that God condemns people to hell for not believing in him, or that he condemns those who choose to have sex before marriage? What is a Christian to you, and why do you feel as though you fall short? I think these are all important questions, and ones that you should consider.


 
  • Like
Reactions: SallyNow
Upvote 0

DeanM

Well-Known Member
Jun 4, 2007
3,633
402
60
✟5,870.00
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
Hi everyone. :wave: Lately, I have had a lot of trouble with believing in Christianity. I currently am believing in Christianity but I find it hard to believe in a God who would condemn people to Hell simply for not believing in Him. Also, I find it hard to believe in a God who would condemn people simply for having sex before marriage. I find it hard to believe in a God who would condemn people at all. Now, I know that some people are going to say that God condemns no one but that we condemn ourselves but to me it is the same thing. Can someone on here help me out with my doubts? :confused:

Sounds to me like you have a hard time believing in conservative Christianity.

So do I, Sister. So do I.
 
Upvote 0

Ave Maria

Ave Maria Gratia Plena
May 31, 2004
41,126
2,009
42
Diocese of Evansville, IN
✟121,615.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
PaladinGirl, let me ask you something; what makes you believe that in order to be a Christian, you must hold to the idea that God condemns people to hell for not believing in him, or that he condemns those who choose to have sex before marriage? What is a Christian to you, and why do you feel as though you fall short? I think these are all important questions, and ones that you should consider.



Well, I guess it stems from my being raised a fundamentalist Southern Baptist. I don't know why I feel as though I fall short. Maybe it stems from my viewing God as a judgmental being instead of a loving being.

Sounds to me like you have a hard time believing in conservative Christianity.

So do I, Sister. So do I.

Yeah, I definitely have a hard time with conservative Christianity.
 
Upvote 0

BabyLutheran

God Chose Me
Dec 3, 2005
1,905
125
63
Virginia Beach
✟17,738.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Well, it does say we ALL have fallen short, so there is a good reason you feel that way.

The good news is, there is no guilt or condemnation in that failure if we believe Jesus is the Christ.

I don't get too wrapped up in anything else, I try to keep it simple.
 
Upvote 0

divided sky

Veteran
Apr 26, 2005
1,465
82
Northeastern U.S.
✟2,065.00
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
It's never been clear to me (from reading the NT) exactly how God judges the eternal destiny of humans. There seems to be conflicting viewpoints in the NT itself. At times, there's the view that belief in Jesus is all you need to get to Heaven. Yet, there's also the view that what you do in this life impacts where you spend eternity.

The idea that God judges humans based solely on their religious beliefs doesn't sit right with me, and this appears to be what some Christians believe. But what about how you lived your life? Doesn't God care about that? My sister used to work for this lawyer who claimed he was a Christian. He talked about his faith all the time. Yet, she said he was a jerk. He didn't treat people very well, and he may have been involved in some unethical dealings. But, since he holds the correct religious beliefs, he'll get into Heaven, right?

With regard to sex before marriage, as I understand it, it was forbidden in Judaism (correct me if I'm wrong, guys), which means that Jesus probably accepted this (I don't recall if it's mentioned in any of the canonical Gospels). I think Paul also mentioned it as being a sin for Christians. I think this teaching continued on in early Christianity, and obviously is still taught to this day.

I think this is a very hard teaching to deal with in our day, and I'm not sure exactly where I stand on it. While I don't think people should run out and have sex left and right with anyone (for various reasons), I'm not sure why it's wrong between two people who truly love each other but just happen to not be married.
 
Upvote 0

IndieVisible

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2009
476
28
✟793.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Hi everyone. :wave: Lately, I have had a lot of trouble with believing in Christianity. I currently am believing in Christianity but I find it hard to believe in a God who would condemn people to Hell simply for not believing in Him. Also, I find it hard to believe in a God who would condemn people simply for having sex before marriage. I find it hard to believe in a God who would condemn people at all. Now, I know that some people are going to say that God condemns no one but that we condemn ourselves but to me it is the same thing. Can someone on here help me out with my doubts? :confused:

You might be interested to know that universal salvation was the popular opinion eary christians followed up to the 3rd century. There were four main school of thoughts and only one taught about eternal punishment which finally won over by the 4th century. But to this day many Christians either believe in Universal Salvation or Universial Reconciliation.

How can a Loving God punish any one for eternity for just a short life span we get here? If humans can fit the punishment to the crime I think God is better at it then us! Fear NOT, God is LOVE! But whatever you believe, universal salvation or reconconcilation, there is justice.

I would think God would just erase our existance over eternal punishment. This is perhaps the biggest problem mainstream Christianity has, their love for the devil and hell, just not inline with GOD at all. :)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Rajni
Upvote 0

Minty

S.O.P.H.I.E
Aug 6, 2007
8,381
722
48
South East London, England
✟27,098.00
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
Single
Politics
UK-Greens
That was the biggest problem that I had with Christianity, to be honest...the concept of eternal punishment for sins that you couldn't not do, as being imperfect you had no choice but to do.


I remember talking to an old lady at my old church once (when I used to go) and she was talking about hell, and she turned to me and she said " I wouldn't worry too much dear, it's where you'll end up...people like you always do!"
I was stunned, this woman didn't even know me, but she was making snap judgements about me...in church...she was judging me in church! So I did no more and turned to her very sweetly and said "looks like I'm not going to be alone then, eh...for someone that lives by the example of Christ, you're doing an excellent job of casting the first stone!" and I walked away.

I got to thinking when I got home, why bother going if according to her (and many of them there thought like that) I was on a one way trip "downstairs" anyway? No matter what I did or said.

Now I know that many feel that's not the case, but there are many that do and I have no time for that anymore...I don't have time to feel all of the guilt that they said that I should be feeling :( I mean, I'm polite, curteous, honest, trustworthy, love and respect my parents, am slow to anger, am generous, kind, loving, helpful, I'm even chaste...but all of that is for nought, because I don't "look" Christian enough, don't pray enough, don't tithe enough, witness enough...blah, blah, blah. What is enough?!?!

I have to say, that woman did more in turning me away from Christianity than anyone else, and no matter what I hear and read to the contrary her comment sticks in my mind, and I can't shake it. It's entirely my fault that I let her get to me so badly, but somehow I can't shake the feeling, deep down, that she's right!

If I'm going there anyway, I might as well deserve it ^_^


Sorry, about that...got a bit mad rambly, there :doh:
 
Upvote 0

fieryphoenix

Iconic Radical Scholar
Jan 19, 2008
71
10
Catonsville, MD
✟15,246.00
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Hi everyone. :wave: Lately, I have had a lot of trouble with believing in Christianity. I currently am believing in Christianity but I find it hard to believe in a God who would condemn people to Hell simply for not believing in Him. Also, I find it hard to believe in a God who would condemn people simply for having sex before marriage. I find it hard to believe in a God who would condemn people at all. Now, I know that some people are going to say that God condemns no one but that we condemn ourselves but to me it is the same thing. Can someone on here help me out with my doubts? :confused:

PaladinGirl, I have shared your reservations about Christianity. What I find problematic is the way conservative Christians insist that God saves only an elite set of people (conservative born again Christians), as well as the fixation on abortion, homosexuality, gay marriage, male headship of the house, and pre-marital sex.

Many of my conservative brothers and sisters make the mistake of making thinking that God's love is predicated upon people espousing the correct beliefs and practicing the correct sexuality. God loves us as we are and for who we are.

I believe that God is not the stern monarch in the sky who is angry with humanity and ready to destroy the earth at any minute. I believe that God is a loving incorporeal spirit who loves us unconditionally. I believe that all people will be given an opportunity to reconcile with God because no loving God would throw his own children into an eternal fire.

The one thing I do like about conservative Christian churches is the music, which I find quite compelling and moving. Every now and then, I visit a church when the spirit calls.

My advice to you is don't worry about churchianity. It's artificial and fallacious. Concentrate on God. God knows your heart. What is important is not your beliefs, but your actions and your intentions.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Minty
Upvote 0

AzA

NF | NT
Aug 4, 2008
1,540
95
✟24,721.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I see two common threads in responses so far:

1) Concern about PaladinGirl. We care about you, sis.

2) Criticism of the idea that any single subspecies (the SBC) could fully represent the whole species (Christianity). This is a big one, but very important. There's a lot of variety in Christianity, and has been from the very beginning. There was also a great deal of variety in Judaism; as a few posters have already suggested, not even that culture had a single voice. There were tussles and different ideas about almost everything.

Even the 12 disciples were hugely variant -- because all humans vary. The pursuit of homogeneity in a heterogeneous natural world, literally "against nature," is what construes variety as a problem. I can imagine your church has taught you differently, PD. But hanging out in this group has probably shown you the weaknesses in aspects of what you've been taught.

Does this mean you must discard the things you've learned? Not necessarily. But you may have to give yourself some quiet space to figure out how God is calling you to re-view what you've learned in the context of your current and forming convictions.

Please be prepared to change your mind as often as new evidence comes in. There's no shame in that; we know in part. And above all, honor your conscience, not the guilt that comes easily or the fear of what others (including us) will think of you when you decide where you stand. Just honor your conscience. I believe you can trust God to teach you what He thinks you need to know to stand in the world as His offspring with integrity and purpose. And He's not as fazed by our partial knowing as we are, lol! :)
 
Upvote 0
N

nhisname

Guest
Hi everyone. :wave: Lately, I have had a lot of trouble with believing in Christianity. I currently am believing in Christianity but I find it hard to believe in a God who would condemn people to Hell simply for not believing in Him. Also, I find it hard to believe in a God who would condemn people simply for having sex before marriage. I find it hard to believe in a God who would condemn people at all. Now, I know that some people are going to say that God condemns no one but that we condemn ourselves but to me it is the same thing. Can someone on here help me out with my doubts? :confused:


It sounds to me you are trying to use human logic in Spiritual matters and it won't work. This is why it takes faith in God...just ask him for help in sorting out these issues.:amen:
 
Upvote 0

Minty

S.O.P.H.I.E
Aug 6, 2007
8,381
722
48
South East London, England
✟27,098.00
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
Single
Politics
UK-Greens
PaladinGirl, I have shared your reservations about Christianity. What I find problematic is the way conservative Christians insist that God saves only an elite set of people (conservative born again Christians), as well as the fixation on abortion, homosexuality, gay marriage, male headship of the house, and pre-marital sex.

Many of my conservative brothers and sisters make the mistake of making thinking that God's love is predicated upon people espousing the correct beliefs and practicing the correct sexuality. God loves us as we are and for who we are.

I believe that God is not the stern monarch in the sky who is angry with humanity and ready to destroy the earth at any minute. I believe that God is a loving incorporeal spirit who loves us unconditionally. I believe that all people will be given an opportunity to reconcile with God because no loving God would throw his own children into an eternal fire.

The one thing I do like about conservative Christian churches is the music, which I find quite compelling and moving. Every now and then, I visit a church when the spirit calls.

My advice to you is don't worry about churchianity. It's artificial and fallacious. Concentrate on God. God knows your heart. What is important is not your beliefs, but your actions and your intentions.
QFT (quoted for truth) and brilliantly said :thumbsup:
 
Upvote 0

Tube Socks Dude

Senior Member
May 10, 2005
1,152
137
✟24,508.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Christianity, being a revealed religion, is a faith based not upon direct individual experience of God breaking forth into consciousness or nature as if God writes the name of Jesus across the sky or mind. More than just God and the seeker are involved. A third party is required to transmit the message, such as an evangelist or preacher, who acts as a go-between and interpreter. Any message dependent upon a messenger is no better than the messenger, whether human or literary. I believe there is a problem in that the Bible from which evangelists do their preaching sets forth not one, but two moral standards, one authoritarian, the other philosophical. The authoritarian moral standard simply says: Do what God says (or else). The philosophical moral standard says: do unto others what you would have them do unto you (because that's the right thing to do). In my opinion, these two quite independent and quite different views of morality lead to two entirely different Christianities. Those who try to harmonize them must either subordinate love to obedience or obedience to love. I find the former always turns people into the slaves of some external religious authority and the latter forces free-thinkers to hold their noses whenever encountering unavoidably ugly word pictures in Scripture. To fix the problem the church would have to do surgery on the core documents of the faith, to either amputate the morally reprehensible parts or canonically graft on new light. Unfortunately, neither of those is going to happen. To me, harmonizing the authoritarian and philosophical versions of Christianity is like trying to blend sharks (which haven’t evolved in eons) with caterpillars (which are able to metamorphosize into something else and leave behind useless junk). The dichotomy might not be such a problem if it were not for the fact that the New Testament itself spends so much time whining and moaning about correct doctrine, false teachers and getting it (right). Defending pure doctrine and pointing out wrong belief was the driving force of the early apologists of the orthodox party which became the official transmitter of the faith as it edged out the Ebionites, Nazoreans, Gnostics, Arians, Nestorians, Sebellians, Docetists, Pelageans, Origenists, etc., etc., etc. This authoritarian heresy hunting mentality was always part of the religion from the very beginning. It subordinates love to obedience. It is a ruthless eating machine just like the shark. It will do whatever is necessary to preserve its authority. The end justifies the means. It does not coexist with what it considers darkness. It can only be satisfied with dominion. It filters everything through the lens of a Biblical cosmic dualism rather than intersubjectivity, relationality and interconnectedness. I could probably practice an external form of Christianity again as a means of cultural identification with a community, but I can never again take seriously the concept of revealed religion as opposed to natural religion.

As long as Christianity relies on a third party human agent to transmit the Gospel as verbal or written hearsay, the messengers themselves will automatically possess an inherited authority to filter, interpret, manipulate and control the form which the message takes when it hits the ears of the seeker. That means the problem is built into the religion itself and amplified by the Scriptural admonition to identify (false brethren). Again, I charge that those who claim to represent God have historically produced not one but two different messages. Since it is absolutely impossible to discern whether love must be subordinate to obedience or obedience subordinate to love, I choose to reject the whole premise of revealed religion as faulty and outdated, giving fallible human beings too much imagined authority to speak on behalf of God. Therefore, I have come to agree with Apollonius of Tyna who supposedly advised the Roman emperor, Euphrates, to…."approve and pursue the kind that is in accordance with nature. But avoid the kind that claims to be inspired: people like that about tell lies about Gods, and urge us to do many foolish things."

Many foolish things, indeed.
.
.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Followers4christ

Love my wife, 2 sons and Daughter. God is great!!
Jun 17, 2005
5,103
805
Caldwell, Idaho
Visit site
✟30,651.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I don't know why I feel as though I fall short. Maybe it stems from my viewing God as a judgmental being instead of a loving being.



Yeah, I definitely have a hard time with conservative Christianity.

Well we all fall short according to the bible (Romans 3:23), Because God loves all of us he gave us a way to live with him. He is coming soon for his bride and I hope all of us are ready. Our God is a righteous judge and a righteous judge must punish the acts of the wicked. It's almost as if somebody killed your whole family, would you want justice on thier behalf? Well thats what we did to God through our sin, It was our sin and shame that killed the Son of God. But is it great that our God took our shame upon himself and redeemed us by his blood.

You asked how can God throw someone in to hell. Here's a better question why would anyone refuse LOVE for our God is love (1 John 4:8) and the opposite of love is hate. Hate and wickedness has no place in the home God is preparing for his bride. By choosing hate and wickedness they are choosing their own destiny for eternaty.

Here's another question for you if you do not want anyone to perish then what are you doing about it? You see God told us all to preach the gospel of Jesus so no man would perish thats what Matthew 28:19-20 is all about. So instead of questioning God you need to look at yourself and ask yourself "If I do not want anyone to perish then what am I doing about it?"

By the way this is not a part of conservative Christianity, after all conservatives did not write the bible, nor did the liberals, but God. To try to make God in to a conservative are a liberal is a oxymoron for we cannot try to make God in to our image or our political party. Anyone doing this is in danger of worshiping another christ that they themselves created then the true messiah. :preach:
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

AzA

NF | NT
Aug 4, 2008
1,540
95
✟24,721.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
...To fix the problem the church would have to do surgery on the core documents of the faith, to either amputate the morally reprehensible parts or canonically graft on new light. Unfortunately, neither of those is going to happen. To me, harmonizing the authoritarian and philosophical versions of Christianity is like trying to blend sharks (which haven’t evolved in eons) with caterpillars (which are able to metamorphosize into something else and leave behind useless junk). The dichotomy might not be such a problem if it were not for the fact that the New Testament itself spends so much time whining and moaning about correct doctrine, false teachers and getting it (right). Defending pure doctrine and pointing out wrong belief was the driving force of the early apologists of the orthodox party which became the official transmitter of the faith as it edged out the Ebionites, Nazoreans, Gnostics, Arians, Nestorians, Sebellians, Docetists, Pelageans, Origenists, etc., etc., etc. This authoritarian heresy hunting mentality was always part of the religion from the very beginning. It subordinates love to obedience. It is a ruthless eating machine just like the shark. It will do whatever is necessary to preserve its authority. The end justifies the means. It does not coexist with what it considers darkness. It can only be satisfied with dominion. It filters everything through the lens of a Biblical cosmic dualism rather than intersubjectivity, relationality and interconnectedness...
Interesting post, Tube. (Sharks v caterpillars -- heh -- nice one! Might have to quote that sometimes.)

But this claim: "This authoritarian heresy hunting mentality was always part of the religion from the very beginning..." -- where would you source that mentality? Do you find it in Christ or what you understand to be his message? I find it in Christ's disciples (to his perpetual irritation), and those who recast what he taught for their worlds in the centuries following. I do not find it in Christ.

That said, I vary how I read. The concave view and the convex view resolve when I zoom out from the circle.
 
Upvote 0

Tube Socks Dude

Senior Member
May 10, 2005
1,152
137
✟24,508.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
By the way this is not a part of conservative Christianity, after all conservatives did not write the bible, nor did the liberals, but God.
"The" Bible consisted of autographs penned by the apostles and/or their contemporaries. "The" Bible no longer exists because "The" autographs no longer exist. Therefore, whatever fragments of manuscripts you may possess are not "The" Bible written by God. They are fallible copies transcribed by fallible men who do not possess supernatural apostolic authority to produce inspired inerrant Scripture as in the case of the originals. Until you can produce "The" authentic Bible and not just a bunch of modern reproductions, then it is only logical to doubt your authority in proclaiming what God did or did not write.
 
Upvote 0

Tube Socks Dude

Senior Member
May 10, 2005
1,152
137
✟24,508.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
But this claim: "This authoritarian heresy hunting mentality was always part of the religion from the very beginning..." -- where would you source that mentality? Do you find it in Christ or what you understand to be his message?
The way the religion is set up, one may only know Christ through ministers such as evangelists, pastors, teachers. Therefore, I find it impossible separate Christ from His earthly representatives. The only way to do so, would be to posit a "Christ Consciousness" which does not depend upon Bible, apostles or even Christianity itself, which can be experienced in all religions even if they don't recognize it as "Jesus". That is the only way to get around the notions of authority and obedience that are set forth in Scripture, Ecclesiastic structures and evangelical ministries. The Christ is no better than the messenger representing the Christ. If the authoritative messenger is a fallible book, Christ is subordinate to an interpretation of the Bible. If the authoritative messenger is found in apostolic succession, the Bishops decide how Christ is to be revealed. If it is through a Protestant revival, Christ is accepted according to the constraints and definitions placed upon the seeker by the evangelist. The message of Jesus is subject to the Sunday School teacher, the Pope, the KJV, NIV, NASB, etc. Each transmitter of the message fancies themselves to be the authoritative filter of truth or at least the representative of some hierarchy. When it comes to sourcing the understanding of Christ’s message, the distinction is so blurred between Jesus and his representatives that His message is their message and their message is His message. I cannot find a way to divorce the two so that Christ stands part from the mode of His oral and written transmission. Again, the problem is that whoever or whatever is responsible for that transmission becomes an authority in Christ’s stead. Revealed truth is not necessary the problem itself, but rather Christianity’s historic insistence that it alone represents the source of absolute truth which must be universally applied and assented to. If this were not so from the very beginning, guys like Justin Martyr would not have been arguing with others about how Christianity supersedes and is better than Judaism and paganism. How is it possible to find out what is in Christ, without first digging through the polemics and politics of Christianity? If one comes to the conclusion that Christ is a concept which is not the sole possession of Christianity, but may be found under other names besides Jesus, then Christianity kicks that person out or shuns them, just like they did to Carlton Pearson. If I ever see evidence that people around the world are coming to believe on the Jesus of the Bible without reading a Bible or hearing a sermon, then I will suspect that Christianity is indeed a universal religion revealed supernaturally by a specifically named God who wants humanity to accept Jesus as the embodiment of Absolute Truth. Otherwise, I have no choice but to recognize there are multiple and often contradictory Christ(s) revealed by various preachers, teachers, evangelists, patriarchs and Bible translators. Of course, according to the Bible, there is a Christ and an Anti-Christ. This dualism forces the “real” Christians to become heresy hunters. Therefore, perhaps the authoritative version of Christianity finds its source rooted in one little prefix in Scripture which defines and shapes its entire worldview, message and attitude. That four-letter prefix is “anti”. Whoever came up with a non-reconcilable dichotomous concept of Christ versus anti-Christ is to blame for the whole fragmented, argumentative, heresy hunting, dominionist, apocalyptic mess.
.
.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0