Why I don't do Christmas

[Eph4:26]

I intend for this thread to be a personal testimony of how, through the Holy Ghost, I’ve grown in my Faith in Jesus Christ. The information provided is intended for an interactive sharing of information – something that is not available by the routine Google search process.

If you are interested in learning other Christian’s attitudes about Christmas, there will be much to discuss. If you find this subject too sensitive … please… don’t lurk

By religion of Christmas, I mean the oral and written traditions that have been handed down from one generation to the next.

By instruction of the Bible, I intend to provide citations, content, and commentary as to where, IMHO, is in opposition to the tradition of Christmas. I am not arguing that scripture is the only source of truth; I believe that scripture alone is the sole rule of faith.

In the spirit of adding (2 Peter 1) to, growing, and becoming stronger (1 Cor 3) in Faith, I would like to proceed . . . .

 

[Eph4:26]

1. The first Christmas tree was found in the garden. (see post #4)

2. Christmas is a form of idolatry. (see post #123, 125)

3. Christmas is closely associated with paganism.

4. Satan uses Christmas as a force of evil.

5. The Bible doesn’t support doing Christmas.

6. The origin of Hanukkah threw the Christmas tree out of the temple. (see post #547)

7. When you put a clean thing with an unclean thing, you get dirty. (see post #157)

 

[Eph4:26]

As a Christian, I humbly submit, I am not telling anyone NOT to do Christmas. If there is one thing we can agree with, it is if you DO Christmas, I believe you should continue doing so.

I pledge to uphold all the rules outlined in the Christian Forum FAQ.

Specifically, I pledge to uphold the following rules . . .

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Start threads that are relevant to that forum's stated purpose; submit replies that are relevant to the topic of discussion.

In Addition . . .

Question will be answered on the basis of:

A. Is the intent of the question to better understand 'Why I Don't Do Christmas'? ON-TOPIC -- I will answer it.
B. Is the intent of the question to defend ones Christmas theology? OFF-TOPIC -- I will not answer it.

In the spirit of Titus 3:10, if one repeatedly wants to defend their religion of Christmas, I'm going to excessive my privileged to place them on my Ignore List.

It’s worth repeating, , I am not telling anyone NOT to do Christmas. If there is one thing we can agree with, it is if you DO Christmas, I believe you should continue doing so,

 

[Eph4:26]

1. The first Christmas tree was found in the garden.

God made a law . . . .

Genesis 2:16 17 -- of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat - But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shall not eat of it.

And what was the real power that was promised to Eve by Satan when she committed sin?

Genesis 3:1
And (Satan) said to (Eve) . . .

Genesis 3:5
"For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

Paul warns of the danger of such tree worship . . .

2 Cor 11:3
But I (Paul) am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity {of devotion} to Christ.

And what is the simplicity and devotion of Christ? The Gospel, which is the resurrection. Coming to life after dying.

Luke 9:23 -
And (Jesus) was saying to {them} all, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me.

The battle between God and Satan is Death to Self vs. Fulfilling Self. The christmas tree, in my opinion, metaphorically represents the tree in the garden because it promises the lie of fulfilling self.

I believe the Christmas tree metaphorically represents the tree in the garden.

When one bows down to accept a gift from the tree, they are doing three things: they want that present with their name on it (lust of the eye). After opening the gift and seeing what they received they fulfill the desires of the flesh and feel prideful.

1 John 2:15-17

15
Do not love the world or the things of the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16
For all that is in the world, sensual lust, enticement for the eyes, and pride life, is not from the Father but is from the world.
17
Yet the world and its enticement are passing away. But whoever does the will of God remains forever.

James 1:14
But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust.

What is lust . . .

Lust - Greek: epithumia – It is a composite of epi; which means to super impose and thumia; which means to heat up. It can be described as when one breaths heavy, their body temperature rises, because they are overwhelmed with desire. This desire is not restricted to sex alone.

What is pride . . .

Peter and James say,

James 4:6 (1 Pet 5:5) God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace to the humble.

The word resisteth is the Greek word: "antitassomai" - meaning to set oneself to wage war against.

The word proud in this text is the Greek word huperephanos - appearing above, conspicuous, haughty. This word comes from:

* huper - above
* phaino - lighten, shine, appear

God will make war with those who love to shine above others. America is saturated with this desire to shine and appear above others with desiring more and better cars, houses, things, lands, stuff, etc. Even the so called evangelical Christians believe this is an acceptable life style. There is no call for the daily cross (Luke 9:23). You will have a very difficult time finding a church in America that will preach the daily cross on christmas.

 

[tturt]

After considering many of the items stated in your posts several years ago, these are my thoughts. God made trees and some people chose to worship the created and not the Creator. Also, it's the one time of year in Western civilization, when signs like "Jesus, the reason for the season" can be displayed and get most everyone's attention. I consider it an evangelistic opportunity.

 

[solarwave]

And your not doing this just to be nonconformist?

When one bows down to accept a gift from the tree, they are doing three things: they want that present with their name on it (lust of the eye). After opening the gift and seeing what they received they fulfill the desires of the flesh and feel prideful.

Or when a loved one gives you a gift in love you appreciate it and makes you happy.

Does this include birthdays also? How about being payed for work since you can buy nice things with money?

 

[wayseer]

Happens every year about this time - a whole series of posts on what wrong with celebrating Christmas.

From past posts I can give you the short answer - those who advocate one should not celebrate Christmas because somehow it is unChristian do not know the real meaning of Christmas.

Christmas is a time a joy and celebration that Light has come into the world. Christmas is the symbolic rebirth of the Christian belief.

If there are some who call themselves Christians who sadly cannot celebrate the Lord's birth then such is their choice.

But for some reason they seem to want to drag everyone else down to their level. For these unhappy souls I wish them the greatest Christmas yet - that they get to see the Light.

 

[Lisa*Lisa]

.

But for some reason they seem to want to drag everyone else down to their level. For these unhappy souls I wish them the greatest Christmas yet - that they get to see the Light.

Wow, what a terrible personal insult to those who choose not to participate. I'm shocked to hear a "christian" saying such a thing. Nothing new around here tho........happens all the time. Very sad.

I don't participate in the ancient pagan holiday "christmas" and I"m a very happy soul that makes that choice for God.

 

[Ih8s8n]

Christmas is a time a joy and celebration that Light has come into the world. Christmas is the symbolic rebirth of the Christian belief.

wayseer: For those who seek to view it as such (with "blinders" on, that is), perhaps. However, like it or not, the origins of what we call "Christmas" are totally pagan. A simple search for such things as "the feast of Saturnalia", "Sol Invictus", "winter solstice" and a whole host of things that are traditionally linked to "Christmas" (mistletoe, holly, etc.) would clearly show this to be true. For me, for a whole host of reasons, I abandoned the celebration of Christmas many years ago as it really has nothing to do with Christ whatsoever. Haven't missed it in the least.

 

[Ih8s8n]

I don't participate in the ancient pagan holiday "christmas" and I"m a very happy soul that makes that choice for God.

Lisa*Lisa: Good for you.

 

[solarwave]

wayseer: For those who seek to view it as such (with "blinders" on, that is), perhaps. However, like it or not, the origins of what we call "Christmas" are totally pagan. A simple search for such things as "the feast of Saturnalia", "Sol Invictus", "winter solstice" and a whole host of things that are traditionally linked to "Christmas" (mistletoe, holly, etc.) would clearly show this to be true.

Why does it matter if it has pagan origins, I wouldn't be supprised if your language came from non-christian sources.

It doesn't seem much different from saying 'all humans are sinfull, Jesus was a human, humans wrote the Bible, therefore Jesus was sinful and so is the Bible'.

It seems to be looking more at the outside than the inside in my opinion.

 

[from scratch]

Well since you see only the polution of the holiday which is not a holy day in most places, I would ask if we have not poluted the pagan celebrations of winter solstice, feast of Saturnaila and sol invectus.

 

[Rdr Iakovos]

Wow, what a terrible personal insult to those who choose not to participate. I'm shocked to hear a "christian" saying such a thing. Nothing new around here tho........happens all the time. Very sad.

I don't participate in the ancient pagan holiday "christmas" and I"m a very happy soul that makes that choice for God.

LOL-

You are correct- that was a personal affront on the part of that poster- and then you respond IN KIND. Christmas is not an "ancient pagan holiday."
It is an early, Western Christian observance which has picked up pagan baggage. To refer to it as you have paints us who celebrate it as pagans, which is, as you say, a "terrible personal insult."

And an unlearned one at that.

If you chose not to participate, cool, no sweat, that's your business.


The origin and location of Advent/Nativity celebrations appears to be late second/early third century Gaul. The date was non-specific, but the idea of celebrating the coming of the Light made sense, so much that it was later adopted by the whole Church. Though non-apostolic in origin, and questionable in its timing, the celebration is steeped in the story one and all can read for themselves in Luke's gospel.

 

[cyberlizard]

a good reason to celebrate Christmas is to remember that Messiah owns the title of 'Green Tree'... therefore whilst I could happily have an undecorated conifer in my living room, I choose not too. Our house remembers, Hanukkah, which has a biblical mention and from which I can draw on my spiritual lessons.

There are not many I can draw on from Christmas as I have never become the incarnate son, never had angels tell of my coming, nor prophecys of my birth. I can enjoy the nativity narrative and get things from it, but the spiritual lessons I can glean from the former vastly outweigh those from the latter.

I look forward in a few weeks to lighting the canndles of my hanukkah menorah and remember that the light of the world has come to share and spread his flame of fire.

here's a pretty picture of a hanukkah menorah... the taller candle in the middle is called a shamash which means servant/slave and that candle is use to light the others.

Steve

p

 

[Ih8s8n]

Why does it matter if it has pagan origins...

solarwave: It matters for several reasons, two of which would be the following:

1. God instructs His people not to learn the practices of the heathen.

2. Over the last 20+ years, I've personally encountered numerous non-believers who argue that Christianity is just another cult. One of the pillars of their argument is the paganism that is disguised as "Christianity" in many places...so called "holidays/holy days" being but one such place.

Now, you might not care about honoring God or dealing honestly with non-believers, but I do. To each his own, I guess.

 

[cyberlizard]

i know some people cite verses from the prophets are trees, but in truth these are non-starters as it is dicussing trees which have been cut down and carved, like Totem Poles.

People who use verses like these need to look more carefully at the contexts.


Steve

 

[katherine2001]

LOL-

You are correct- that was a personal affront on the part of that poster- and then you respond IN KIND. Christmas is not an "ancient pagan holiday."
It is an early, Western Christian observance which has picked up pagan baggage. To refer to it as you have paints us who celebrate it as pagans, which is, as you say, a "terrible personal insult."

And an unlearned one at that.

If you chose not to participate, cool, no sweat, that's your business.


The origin and location of Advent/Nativity celebrations appears to be late second/early third century Gaul. The date was non-specific, but the idea of celebrating the coming of the Light made sense, so much that it was later adopted by the whole Church. Though non-apostolic in origin, and questionable in its timing, the celebration is steeped in the story one and all can read for themselves in Luke's gospel.

I agree. If people choose not to celebrate Christmas, that is their right. However, they do not have the right to tell the rest of us what to do. God has always had times of fasting and feasting, and the Church has continued this. If some Christians want to cut out all the feasting days, I guess that is their right. Evidently to celebrate anything is "pagan". I get the impression that Christ liked to celebrate--at a wedding, He even made more wine when the bride's family ran out!

 

[Ih8s8n]

i know some people cite verses from the prophets are trees, but in truth these are non-starters as it is dicussing trees which have been cut down and carved, like Totem Poles.

People who use verses like these need to look more carefully at the contexts.

cyberlizard: In this, you are absolutely correct. There are verses, especially Jeremiah 10:1-4, that have been MISused in this fashion. Here, and in other places like it, the "trees" are clearly being fashioned into idols that are overlaid with either silver or gold and, in no way, is a Christmas tree being described.

 

[Lisa*Lisa]

LOL-

You are correct- that was a personal affront on the part of that poster- and then you respond IN KIND. Christmas is not an "ancient pagan holiday."

Wrong! Christmas is in fact an ancient pagan holiday. I'm stating a fact, not an opinion. It was not a personal insult twords that poster, like the other post was, fact and personal insult are not the same thing.

Learn to separate the two and see the difference. Fact is not a personal insult.

 

[Lisa*Lisa]

I agree. If people choose not to celebrate Christmas, that is their right. However, they do not have the right to tell the rest of us what to do. God has always had times of fasting and feasting, and the Church has continued this. If some Christians want to cut out all the feasting days, I guess that is their right. Evidently to celebrate anything is "pagan". I get the impression that Christ liked to celebrate--at a wedding, He even made more wine when the bride's family ran out!

You agree with that? Who's telling you what to do? You have a brain, do what you want.

There is no christmas tree police that's coming to your house to take your tree away. People need to get a grip over their emotions and learn how to separate fact from emotions.

This thread is quickly turning into the same one that I started last month. UGLY and crazy with emotions running at all time highs.