FreeGrace2
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You're welcome.This is so true. I'm neither and almost every Calvinist has called me an Arminian.
Thanks for restating this. Maybe if they read it more than once it'll stick. The 'Arminian' is not the 'other' bucket for everyone not a Calvinist.
Couldn’t have been anything about the lives they lived and their relationship to God, huh?
I am curious why you keep bringing up Acts 2:23?
But, this is clearly not the same as predetermining who gets elected to salvation.
God doesn't choose some to go to hell. That would be against His will.
He said He wants all to be saved. 1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
The LORD .... is not willing that any should perish.
God knows in advance who will reject Him.
In my opinion I just think Calvinists don't think God was able to figure out who could be saved, how one person getting saved would influence others and that would influence others and so on.
To many permutations. So God had to take a hand in determining who gets saved.
I just think God is wise enough to figure all this out.
God knows in advance who will reject Him.
What hasn't been shown from Scripture is that election is to salvation. So why believe what isn't found in Scripture?And yet they do.
And again, God does not "predetermine" who gets elect to salvation.
Non Calvinists know God is rich in mercy.God sovereignly elected His people because He is rich in mercy and chose to display it for His glory
Romans 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.
Romans 9:22-24 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Ephesians 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
Titus 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
Please review the OP of another thread here: The purpose of ElectionGod sovereignly elected His people because He is rich in mercy and chose to display it for His glory
Romans 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.
Romans 9:22-24 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Ephesians 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
Titus 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
Finally, the truth. This is what I have been saying all along.he person who rejects God is not elected for that very reason.
On the other hand, God knows "in advance" that John X, will accept and believe, therefore he is elected.
God shows respect for one person because He knows "in advance" what he will do, and likewise God has no respect for the other because He knows "in advance" he will reject.
How does that make Him a respecter of persons."IV. To these succeeds the fourth decree, by which God decreed to save and damn certain particular persons. This decree has its foundation in the foreknowledge of God, by which he knew from all eternity those individuals who would, through his preventing grace, believe, and, through his subsequent grace would persevere, according to the before described administration of those means which are suitable and proper for conversion and faith; and, by which foreknowledge, he likewise knew those who would not believe and persevere."
Source
Which makes God a respecter of persons.
John 6:44 - No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Romans 9:16 - So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Ephesians 1:5 - Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Romans 8:29 - For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Deuteronomy 30:11-20 - For this commandment which I command thee this day, it [is] not hidden from thee, neither [is] it far off. (Read More...)
Romans 10:5-13 - For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. (Read More...)
Romans 9:13-14 - As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. (Read More...)
Romans 10:17 - So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Romans 8:29-30 - For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. (Read More...)
Ephesians 1:4 - According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Ephesians 1:11 - In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
John 12:32 - And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me.
Ephesians 2:8-10 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (Read More...)
Matthew 18:3 - And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Ezekiel 18:20-21 - The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. (Read More...)
Romans 9:17 - For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Good idea, let's do that.You have a lot of different topics referrenced in all these verses. Why not take one concept and we can diuscuss it.
Titus 2:11 The grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. So He extended salvation to everybody.No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
He will have mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will He hardens. This whole passage is talking about Israel as a nation and how He chose them.Romans 9:16 - So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
And it is clearly according to His will. He knows who will accept or reject and made plans accordingly.Ephesians 1:5 - Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
This foreknow is the Greek word proginosko G4267 to know beforehand, to foreseeRomans 8:29 - For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
These verse clearly show man has a freewill to choose life or death, good or evil, so He says to choose life.Deuteronomy 30:11-20 - For this commandment which I command thee this day, it [is] not hidden from thee, neither [is] it far off. (Read More...)
For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.Romans 10:5-13 - For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. (Read More...)
See Malachi 1:2-4 It is talking about Jacob being the nation of Israel and Esau being the nation of Edom, not individuals.Romans 9:13-14 - As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. (Read More...)
So people hear the Word of God, then they get faith.Romans 10:17 - So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
You quoted this twice, just adding verse 30, it was based on foreknowledge in 29, it still is.Romans 8:29-30 - For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. (Read More...)
The children that He already foreknew would be blessed and would be holy anEphesians 1:4 - According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
God has a plan that cannot be stopped. He planned for Jesus to die a brutal death, to be buried in a rich mans tomb and He would rise again, and He is coming back soon.Ephesians 1:11 - In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Are you sure about Calvinism?John 12:32 - And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me.
When we hear the Word and accept it, He gives us faith.Ephesians 2:8-10 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (Read More...)
So we have a choice whether to be converted or not?Matthew 18:3 - And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
If Pharoah had done as Moses had asked to let the people go, I believe God would have gotten great glory. This man who was steeped in his own false gods, if he would have set them aside and done what was right, all these false gods would have been dethroned by Pharoah. But He didn't do what was right, God had to show everybody the worthlessness of these false Gods, and God got glory. God was going to get glory either way. So yes God raised him up so He could get glory.Romans 9:17 - For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Scripture said this was in place before either was even born, before either had done good or bad. God loved one and hated the other. (Rom. 9:11)
God Bless
Till all are one.
What happened to the very next verse, which explains v.44??John 6:44 - No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Let's consider the very next verse, which is in the context of the purpose of election (v.11):Romans 9:16 - So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
How about the previous verse:Ephesians 1:5 - Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Nothing here about election, but about predestination. Which is NOT about salvation, but being conformed to the image of His Son. Only believers are predestinated.Romans 8:29 - For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
A very clear passage about free will. To choose either death or life. God gives choices.Deuteronomy 30:11-20 - For this commandment which I command thee this day, it [is] not hidden from thee, neither [is] it far off. (Read More...)
v.9 "IF you confess and believe". A choice. v.13 "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved". No limitations or restrictions on who may call on His name.Romans 10:5-13 - For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. (Read More...)
A direct quote from Mal 1:2,3, written about 400 years after the twins were born. Regarding the nations that came out of the twins.Romans 9:13-14 - As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. (Read More...)
Amen. Nothing about eleciton to salvation.Romans 10:17 - So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
See comment above.Romans 8:29-30 - For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. (Read More...)
See comment above about this verse.Ephesians 1:4 - According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Where is salvation noted as the purpose?Ephesians 1:11 - In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Yep. Unlimited atonement. Also note John 3:15,16, Heb 2:9, 2 Cor 5:14,15 and 1 Pet 3:18 - Christ died once for all; the righteous for the unrighteous. Every human being is unrighteous.John 12:32 - And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me.
In v.5 Paul equates "being made alive" with "have been saved". They are synonymnous. Can't have one without the other. And v.8 confirms that faith precedes salvation; ye are saved through faith. If being saved, or being made alive (regeneration) came first, Paul would have said: ye have faith because of your salvation. But he didn't.Ephesians 2:8-10 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (Read More...)
What does this have to do with election? No one gets into heaven unless they are saved, converted, born again.Matthew 18:3 - And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
The context here is about physical death, or capital punishment.Ezekiel 18:20-21 - The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. (Read More...)
See my previous comment above.Romans 9:17 - For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
It upholds the Calvinist viewpoint right up till you look at the Scripture in context. It is a quote from Malach1 1That upholds in a strong way the calvinist view point.
M-Bob
I do likewise view OSAS as an evil and deceptive doctrine, given the number of souls that may end up in Hell because of it.
Finally, the truth. This is what I have been saying all along.
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