Why I am not a Christian anymore

[radhead]

I used to be a Christian until I read the Bible. I was heavily involved with singles and other church activities.

But the Bible really opened my eyes. It was not at all about "Christianity" as people on these forums would describe it. I know that not everyone shares the same belief, but it does seem that most people in these forums share the same essential theologically conservative fundamental doctrines as defined in the evangelical, non-denominational, Southern Baptist churches, etc.

The core message of the Bible is really social justice.

But it seems like most of the Christians I knew when I was in singles ministries were not into that at all. In fact, these people seemed to be the kind of people that the Bible was always condemning. And when I read the Bible in full I knew that it was condemning ME, because I used to be a Pharisee (in spirit).

Now, don't get me wrong. I am not God. I am not all knowing. Maybe conservatism is good. Maybe a balance between the left and right is good. But that is not the message of the Bible. In fact, I think that anything you find in the Bible which supports "conservative" values was done so in a mocking way.

In other words, you can have conservative values. And they may even be God's values. But they were not the values of the writers of the Bible.

 

[Rion]

...you're not a Christian because you interpret the Bible as being left-wing?

Also, the Bible is neither Social Justice (in the modern sense) or Conservative. C.S. Lewis had a really good description of how a truly Christian society would be:

All the same, the New Testament, without going into details, gives us a pretty clear hint of what a fully Christian society would be like. Perhaps it gives us more than we can take. It tells us that there are to be no passengers or parasites: if man does not work, he ought not to eat. Every one is to work with his own hands, and what is more, every one's work is to produce something good: there will be no manufacture of silly luxuries and then of sillier advertisements to persuade us to buy them. And there is to be no "swank" or "side," no putting on airs. To that extent a Christian society would be what we now call Leftist. On the other hand, it is always insisting on obedience-obedience (and outward marks of respect) from all of us to properly appointed magistrates, from children to parents, and (I am afraid this is going to be very unpopular) from wives to husbands. Thirdly, it is to be a cheerful society: full of singing and rejoicing, and regarding worry or anxiety as wrong. Courtesy is one of the Christian virtues; and the New Testament hates what it calls "busybodies."

If there were such a society in existence and you or I visited it, I think we should come away with a curious impression. We should feel that its economic life was very socialistic and, in that sense, "advanced," but that its family life and its code of manners were rather old-fashioned-perhaps even ceremonious and aristocratic. Each of us would like some bits of it, but I am afraid very few of us would like the whole thing. That is just what one would expect if Christianity is the total plan for the human machine. We have all departed from that total plan in different ways, and each of us wants to make out that his own modification of the original plan is the plan itself. You will find this again and again about anything that is really Christian: every one is attracted by bits of it and wants to pick out those bits and leave the rest. That is why we do not get much further: and that is why people who are fighting for quite opposite things can both say they are fighting for Christianity.

 

[radhead]

I like CS Lewis as a person, and I like some of his fiction, but his apologetics has never made sense to me. His apologetics, at least, are complete nonsense in my opinion. The fact that he would criticize William Blake also bothers me.

God and Jesus both seem to be left-wing to me. The fact that most Christians I know are conservative means that they are in favor of increasing the wealth and power of the most wealthy and most powerful. And it just doesn't make any kind of sense. It never will.

It's troubling that most Christian singles are so conservative.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

The bible is the story of the Judo-Christian narrative and how God has revealed himself to mankind. To read the bible so hopelessly post-modern as you do is an insult to the very mission of Sacred Scripture itself. Its layer by layer of depth, layer by layer with wisdom.

If you read it like some sort of a political manifest then Id suggest you go to catechesis somewhere. It kind of reminds me of the Ethiopian that read from Jesaja without understanding it. Filip was sent by the Lord to teach and baptize the man.

If you dont understand then seek knowledge, dont make it an excuse to turn Your back on Christ.

 

[radhead]

The bible is the story of the Judo-Christian narrative and how God has revealed himself to mankind. To read the bible so hopelessly post-modern as you do is an insult to the very mission of Sacred Scripture itself. Its layer by layer of depth, layer by layer with wisdom.

If you read it like some sort of a political manifest then Id suggest you go to catechesis somewhere. It kind of reminds me of the Ethiopian that read from Jesaja without understanding it. Filip was sent by the Lord to teach and baptize the man.

If you dont understand then seek knowledge, dont make it an excuse to turn Your back on Christ.

My opinion is not post-modern at all. If anything I love Modernism and the enlightenment spirit of the US founding fathers like Thomas Jefferson. I'm stuck back in that time. The true Christ is the messiah found inside of everyone.

 

[radhead]

Another thing is that Jesus dies for the sins of "the world". If I don't consider myself to be a part of "the world" of commerce, wealth, political oppression, evangelicalism, empirial conquest, etc, then the Bible is saying that those who have the spirit of God are not a part of that "world" anyway.

There are no personal sins to be forgiven. Only the sins of an evil system created by empires and society. The people in prisons are mostly victims of that system. If a man is forced to steal or kill just to stay alive, he is a victim of the worldly system.

 

[bekkilyn]

Lots of Christians worship Republican Jesus. There is a good description of him in the bible after those lengthy sections about selling bootstraps to the poor, honoring the wealthy, and of course putting America first.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

There is a world outside of US politics people, believe it or not.
It doesnt matter if one feels like a sinner or not, it doesnt change anything as in our relation with God.

 

[bekkilyn]

There is a world outside of US politics people, believe it or not.
It doesnt matter if one feels like a sinner or not, it doesnt change anything as in our relation with God.

It's true, but we're putting up a Wall soon so that we can at least imagine that there is no world outside of the U.S.

 

[radhead]

There is a world outside of US politics people, believe it or not.
It doesnt matter if one feels like a sinner or not, it doesnt change anything as in our relation with God.

I think that personal "sin" is caused by the perpetrator being either a victim of the system, or the victim of some mental illness.

 

[Rion]

Another thing is that Jesus dies for the sins of "the world". If I don't consider myself to be a part of "the world" of commerce, wealth, political oppression, evangelicalism, empirial conquest, etc, then the Bible is saying that those who have the spirit of God are not a part of that "world" anyway.

There are no personal sins to be forgiven. Only the sins of an evil system created by empires and society. The people in prisons are mostly victims of that system. If a man is forced to steal or kill just to stay alive, he is a victim of the worldly system.

Your understanding of scripture is simply abhorrent. We are to be in the world, but not of the world. Also, Christ did not say "Don't still or kill unless you really need something." I suggest that you re-read Matthew 5 again, and not stop at the Beatitudes.

Especially this part:

38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

The mile part is especially interesting in context. Under Roman law, a soldier could force any Jew to carry their pack, but only for one mile, under threat of penalty for the Jewish person to refuse, or the Roman if they tried to make them go further. Do you think Jewish people liked that? Do you think it was fair? Or would you describe that as part of the 'system'?

 

[friend of]

I used to be a Christian until I read the Bible. I was heavily involved with singles and other church activities.

Okay then you were never a Christian.

 

[PeterDona]

It was interesting when I read the mosaic law first time, I was impressed at the social justice it prescribed. I was even thinkning, this surpasses Karl Marx.
But being a christian centers around knowing Christ.
So is there an opposite here? Can you know Christ and not care for others? I hope not. It is my hope that God will draw your life in a direction where you care more and more for other people.

 

[CodyFaith]

The core message of the Bible is really social justice.

The core message of the Bible is to be forgiven of your sins, to have a relationship with God and to love and trust God with all your heart, mind and soul - acknowledging His ways are better than our own ways and that His mind and thoughts are infinitely more greater and wiser than our own. Jesus said in order to enter into Heaven you must recieve it as a little child, meaning trusting God with the meekness that a child trusts his or her parents.

 

[Strathos]

Liberal Christianity is a large movement, whether you realize it or not.

 

[christianforumsuser]

Are you lawful or lawless? Are you in chaos? What faith do you have?

 

[com7fy8]

I was heavily involved with singles and other church activities.

Yes, there are various counterfeit versions of Christianity; and people use these counterfeits as their excuse to reject God. Plus, counterfeits can fight with each other, as if one of them has to be the right one.



So, in case you please to get into this, I hope to offer what I have found is in the Bible.

One basic of Christianity is we do not only hang out with people who are our own speed and age. We share with our mature seniors who are role models of how to be with God and submit to how He rules us in His peace > and how to relate in love with any other child of God while caring for any and all people. Jesus died with hope for any evil person, at all; so in God's love we have hope for any wrong horrible impossible person > love "hopes all things" (in 1 Corinthians 13:7).

But I was a Pharisee conceited misfit; so I because of my own character could just filter out whatever told me I needed to get a clue how to love, how to be intimate with God. People and scriptures all along were telling me about real Christianity, but my personality simply had me not getting it. I could find gentle and humble and quiet and kind people to be boring; this was not their fault.

One basic of our Christian calling is how we submit to how our Heavenly Father rules us with His own peace in our hearts >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

So, God who is so superior is so not conceited, that He personally cares about each of us, so much that He desires to personally rule each of us for our good, while sharing His very own peace with us.

So, God is not just theoretical, but personal; but I was the one who was impersonal, and so this kept me from being capable of personally sharing with God and personally caring for any and all people.

There is no human label to put on God, but we need to personally submit to Him and trust how He personally rules us, all the time. And because we are not perfect, we need to constantly offer ourselves for how we need to be corrected (Hebrews 12:4-11) so we more and more share with Him intimately and submit to how He rules us in His peace.

And this feeds us into how we are all called to relate in love >

"I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you to walk worthy of the calling with which you were called, with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love, endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace." (Ephesians 4:1-3)

Our basic calling, then, as Christians, includes to love one another in God's gentle and humble love; so, of course, my lust stuff degraded me from this. And His peace is almighty to make us strong so we can do well while relating with various people, and not break down emotionally and get into hurts and arguing and complaining and unforgiveness; but my snobby show-off way of ministering got me hurt and bent out of shape and frustrated about not getting what I wanted from people. But God's love does not have us just using any person.

"Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you." (Ephesians 4:31-32)

So, God's love has us being "tenderhearted" with our various brothers and sisters, not picking and choosing whom we hope to use. "For if you love those who love you, what reward have you?" (in Matthew 5:46) And, like I offer, we need to seek to share with our senior and very mature people who are our examples of how to be and relate. And then ourselves be gentle and humble, not trying to lord ourselves over others, to control and use them >

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

Therefore, as you can see, there are plenty of people who do not want to do this; and they can easily find others who are counterfeits, and use false people as their excuse not to find out what real Christianity is. God is allowing us to be tested, by allowing the wrong ones to be in our midst; we need to obey God, in spite of however wrong people would be our excuse to get nasty and frustrated and unforgiving and self-righteously judging, and obey the good example of ones who are for real > Hebrews 13:17. There are people who are very clever > they stay where the leadership is wrong; and they excuse themselves from finding out who God trusts to "take care of the church of God." (in 1 Timothy 3:1-10) This way, they can point their finger at the wrong people, and say how great they themselves are, but without finding out who are the real ones whom God trusts and expects us to obey > Hebrews 13:17.

So, a person needs to first trust in Jesus for salvation (Ephesians 1:12), receiving how Jesus crucified has obtained forgiveness and reconciliation with God. And then seek how God has us submitting to Him in His peace and finding out how our Heavenly Father has us relating in His love which is family love and all-loving even with ones who refuse to be gentle and humble in this love.

God's love is unconditional, then; He never gives up on us . . . even while humans conceitedly make themselves the judges of God and give up on Him. And God being unconditionally loving and forgiving is our example, also required of us . . . how He expects us to follow His example >

"Therefore be imitators of God as dear children. And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." (Ephesians 5:1-2)

"Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:17)

So, this is basic Bible. But ones who do not want God can easily filter out what they don't want Christianity to be, because they do not want to deal with what is required of us. And then they can invent some false version . . . a counterfeit . . . and say this is wrong and so they don't want it. But it is never wise to judge what is real, by means of judging counterfeits of it.

 

[Paulie079]

It's so weird when non-regulars come out of nowhere to swarm certain threads haha.

I used to be a Christian until I read the Bible. I was heavily involved with singles and other church activities.

But the Bible really opened my eyes. It was not at all about "Christianity" as people on these forums would describe it. I know that not everyone shares the same belief, but it does seem that most people in these forums share the same essential theologically conservative fundamental doctrines as defined in the evangelical, non-denominational, Southern Baptist churches, etc.

The core message of the Bible is really social justice.

But it seems like most of the Christians I knew when I was in singles ministries were not into that at all. In fact, these people seemed to be the kind of people that the Bible was always condemning. And when I read the Bible in full I knew that it was condemning ME, because I used to be a Pharisee (in spirit).

Now, don't get me wrong. I am not God. I am not all knowing. Maybe conservatism is good. Maybe a balance between the left and right is good. But that is not the message of the Bible. In fact, I think that anything you find in the Bible which supports "conservative" values was done so in a mocking way.

In other words, you can have conservative values. And they may even be God's values. But they were not the values of the writers of the Bible.

I'm curious--what do you think it means to be a Christian?

You seem to be looking at the Bible through a political lens, which is not at all now it was meant to be viewed. The central narrative of the Bible is the fall of man and God's work of reconciling people to Himself through the death and resurrection of Christ for the glory of God. The focal point of the Bible is Jesus, not social justice. Social justice is, if anything, a by-product of what Scripture teaches, but it is not the end goal. Helping those in need is important, but if it is done without showing them the way to a relationship with God, then we are giving them what they may need for this life while leaving them to enter into the next life eternally separated from God.

As an aside, it's true that there are lots of people who spiritualize their political views. It's one of my biggest pet peeves. But it doesn't change the fact that there was a man who was born into this world, lived a sinless life, was crucified and bore the wrath of God on our behalf, and then rose from the dead to walk the earth again before returning to heaven. Regardless of how people misuse the Bible, the truth of that doesn't change, and ultimately you have to explore and decide whether or not you choose to believe in that truth.

 

[Saucy]

The bible =/= American politics. It's not about being liberal or conservative. I'm a conservative Christian and have all different kinds of thoughts/beliefs on certain issues that are always evolving and changing as I grow as a person. I've never thought of Jesus as republican or democrat. I don't think you should stake your eternal life and your own faith on how others practice their own Christianity. I know plenty of liberal Christians who are as devout, awesome, faithful, and even patriotic as the conservative Christians I know. At the end of the day, there won't be a liberal Heaven and a conservative Heaven. While I enjoy a good debate, I try to focus on Heavenly things and less on politics lately.

 

[Hieronymus]

I used to be a Christian until I read the Bible. I was heavily involved with singles and other church activities.

But the Bible really opened my eyes. It was not at all about "Christianity" as people on these forums would describe it. I know that not everyone shares the same belief, but it does seem that most people in these forums share the same essential theologically conservative fundamental doctrines as defined in the evangelical, non-denominational, Southern Baptist churches, etc.

The core message of the Bible is really social justice.

No, the core message throughout the Bible is that faith in God will be rewarded.

But it seems like most of the Christians I knew when I was in singles ministries were not into that at all. In fact, these people seemed to be the kind of people that the Bible was always condemning. And when I read the Bible in full I knew that it was condemning ME, because I used to be a Pharisee (in spirit).

Of course the Bible condemns us.
God knows the human heart.
This problem is solved though: John 3:16

Now, don't get me wrong. I am not God. I am not all knowing. Maybe conservatism is good. Maybe a balance between the left and right is good. But that is not the message of the Bible. In fact, I think that anything you find in the Bible which supports "conservative" values was done so in a mocking way.

In other words, you can have conservative values. And they may even be God's values. But they were not the values of the writers of the Bible.

It would depend on what you want to conserve.
If you're looking for a Law from God, the Law of the New Covenant is twofold:
- Love your God
- Love your fellow humans
But this is also a law we can not keep, even if we try.
But we should try though, even when God forgives us for our transgressions, we should try.

It would be a shame if you dismiss God because of people who claim to be Christians.