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Why I am no longer a Christian

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Martin M James

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This is a continuation of a thread that an admin wanted moved. I do not have enough posts to be able to post to the original thread.

As I read your post about why you are no longer a Christian, I have to ask myself, what do any of your points have to do with your faith and your personal walk with God? Personally, going to church or even belonging to a church or denomination has absolutely nothing to do with your personal relationship to God. I agree with many of your points about the political ruminations of the churches today. I don't agree with your stance against immigration. We are all descendants of immigrants in Canada and the USA at one point or another. (Just ask any First Nation Indian). I don't see what any of this has to do with your belief in God or becoming an Athiest. As a Christian, you either believe in the Divinity of God or you don't. It comes down to that simple bit of faith. Read your bible and pray daily, that is where your strength will come from, not from belonging to any one church. Just saying.

Right. You either believe or don't. I don't. I wanted to and tried to. True, belief in God is independent of the churches. But the church's actions were the last straw on the camel's back that was my willingness to believe.
 

Albion

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Unfortunately, because you didn't reproduce your original post explaining your reasons for abandoning Christianity, we don't now know how to respond except to say that if you aren't a believer, you obviously aren't going to be a churchgoer.
 
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M

Martin M James

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Yes, I heard about that sermon a long time ago. No, I don't agree with it, neither do most Episcopalians I know. Katherine Jefferts-Schori has become a controversial figure for Episcopalians, even liberal ones. Nobody has to listen to her opinions, the Episcopal Church doesn't have a Metropolitan or Pope.

Having said that, I'd never accuse Bishop Schori of being an atheist.

I still think you are focused on the wrong things, the institutions, the fallible human beings and not the Faith. A Christians faith is ultimate about receiving and acknowledging the grace that God gives, even in the Episcopal Church, the bishops, priests, and ministers just do God's work, it is not dependent on whether or not they have a perfect theology.

Human institutions are indeed fallible. Some Episcopal ministers even recommended excommunication for her. I doubt it will happen though. Why? Political correctness.

Do I believe she an atheist or apostate? I don't know.
 
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M

Martin M James

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Unfortunately, because you didn't reproduce your original post explaining your reasons for abandoning Christianity, we don't now know how to respond except to say that if you aren't a believer, you obviously aren't going to be a churchgoer.

I was raised a Christian in the United Methodist Church. My religion became very important to me as a young child and teenager. I was very active in my church, prayed daily, and talked with others about my faith. I believed I was "saved."

I was wrong. I was not "saved" nor am I now. I started to have doubts later on, but brushed these doubts aside at first. Though, as a young adult, I see know that I became less religious, stopped praying as much as I did, not attending church regularly ( I would sometimes go through long periods without going and sometimes I would go regularly in spurts).

As a married thirty-something and adult I had become more and more drawn to Christianity and the church, especially now that we are starting to plan our family.

I notice how our culture is becoming more decadent. And with it, society is becoming less religious and less Christian. As Christians, I am sure you are very aware of this. It concerned me, and still does, very much. It's really sad. But the saddest thing of all is watching Christianity becoming like the culture around it. Instead of Christianity changing the world, the world is changing Christianity.

These things made me doubt my faith again, and I had a new more mature look at what I believed, studying theology and reflecting on a broad range of issues. I refused to brush away doubts. I needed to be firm in my faith and be really serious this time.

Mostly after reading this "sermon" (google "Diversity, not Jesus, saves says Presiding Bishop
Diversity, not Jesus, saves says Presiding Bishop") I decided that I should be either a Southern Baptist or a Roman Catholic (I know, in many ways they are polar opposites). I came to that decision because I sincerely questioned what was true, not what felt right to me or what I seemed to just prefer. I wanted to do what was right. But by that time I had already joined a Southern Baptist congregation and was happy.

I never stopped, however, my inquiry into whether what I professed to believe is true. I kept an open mind, all the while really wanting to believe in Jesus. At one point I really wanted to even become Roman Catholic.

I stopped wanting to believe in Jesus when I discovered that both the SBC and the RCC took up a political stand (not theological) that I found I could not in good conscience support. The political issue is immigration. Both churches are supporting the replacement of this countries founding stock, massive third world immigration, and the non-enforcement of immigration law.

It has been devastating for me. On one hand, it doesn't seem right that I should abandon my faith because of political decisions of the churches, one that I believe is partly (or mostly) due to self-serving interests. But this was enough to disillusion me. The churches and Christianity as a whole, who I looked up to and so desperately wanted to believe in, are enemies with me and Western civilization as a whole. This was what made me finally admit to myself that this was a sham. I can no longer justify the leap of faith that I so eagerly wanted to do. I am now an atheist.

Above is the original post I made.
 
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M

Martin M James

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You are very welcome. We have to remember who the enemy is. Satan is very real, reeking havoc with our minds. He wants us to give up the fight and surrender. I say, no way! Bring it on! Greater is in me than he who is in the world. I live in TN. AFR is around 90 FM. It is talk radio You will hear Sandy Rios, Bryan Fisher, and so many others. They get into the weeds of politics but mostly faith in the Lord and opening our eyes to what is really going on. You will hear things that you do not hear from the media. This is truth. It is on 24 hours a day 7 days a week. They rely on donations as far as support. In fact next week is their shareathon so don't be turned off by that. They only do this twice a year. Once you know what the battles are, you will be a better warrior. We are more than conquerors through Christ. Think of yourself as being in God's army fighting for righteousness. That is the way I think of it.

Thanks 7spiritfilled. I've been listening to afa.net. This is similar to what attracted me to the last church I joined, a real seriousness to the scripture. I'm going to keep listening.
 
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Albion

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Above is the original post I made.

Thanks, Martin.

I'm having some trouble with my computer, losing copy, etc. so I'll be brief.

As I read your comments, I have some definite feelings. Basically, I think you are not really an atheist, but you are questioning the meaning of all of this. But doubt and searching are not banished when one becomes a Christian; that's a part of your spiritual development. And as for the churches and clergy who have gone astray, you are right. And I agree with you. So do millions of Christians who daily are leaving these denominations in steady streams. The difference is that you despaired--which I understand--while they determined to not be defeated by such churches and clergy, and so found the many churches that still hold to the historic faith. They are there and growing, while the old ones you feel are selling out to the world and political correctness are dying. The church has gone through these cycles many times before and this will not be the last.

Finally, I don't believe you can conclude that you are not among the saved. Even the Elect have trials, and it's where they wind up in the end that makes them the Elect. Remember Martin Luther who went through a "Dark Night of the Soul" in such despair and loneliness that he said he actually had come to hate God...and God responded by making him what scholars have called the most influential figure in a thousand years of Church history and the man who launched, against all his intentions, the the greatest revival in the whole history of the Church.
 
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FireDragon76

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Human institutions are indeed fallible. Some Episcopal ministers even recommended excommunication for her. I doubt it will happen though. Why? Political correctness.

No mainline churches excommunicate people for a bad sermon. It just isn't going to happen.

I don't expect churches to mirror my political whims anymore than I expect God to agree with my opinions. My job is conforming my will and opinions to His will. If you think that is taking your opinions lightly, I would argue you are taking God's objectivity lightly. God simply doesn't exist to uphold our agendas. You need to figure out whether you are going to believe in Jesus Christ first, everything else is idolatry.
 
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7

7spiritfilled

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Thanks 7spiritfilled. I've been listening to afa.net. This is similar to what attracted me to the last church I joined, a real seriousness to the scripture. I'm going to keep listening.

Oh, thank God. I was praying for you. There are many sermons on Sunday. During the week, they will speak of news of the day{ the truth] and all the battles that we are in. They will have great speakers also. The scripture came to me that I want to share with you. It is about Elijah,It is in 1 Kings 19:14-So he said," I have been very zealous for the Lord God of hosts, because the children of Israel have forsaken Your covenant, torn down your altars, and killed you prophets with the sword and I alone am left, and they seek to take my life. What is the Divine response, "18- " yet I have reserved seven thousand in Israel, whose knees have not bowed to Baal, and every mouth that has not kissed him. So see Martin, there are many warriors for the faith who have not bowed the knee to the evils of this world and all its trappings. The devil wants you to believe that you are alone. I admire your concern. I am a great warrior for the faith. I may not have all the answers. I do know my God. I know of His faithfulness. I know we are in a spiritual battle and I also know the end of the story. We must put on the whole armor of God. Some day, I will tell you my story. It has been and it continues to be the best journey. My faith just gets stronger and more bolder each and every day. The way I found AFR, is my husband and I was sitting at the doctors office about 3 years ago and we were talking to a person who was in the waiting room. We were talking about politics and how bad the world was getting. I said to the man, we feel like we have no voice. That was when he told me about AFR. This was an answer from God Himself. How awesome when God reads your heart and causes you to sit next to a person at the right time and the right place. As soon as I got home I tuned it in. I have listened to it ever since from 6am -6pm. God bless you my bother.
 
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Nilla

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Mod Hat On


modhat2.jpg



Original thread is here:
http://www.christianforums.com/t7779837-3/

Be careful so this doesn't become about apologetics.

Mod Hat Off
 
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M

Martin M James

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Thanks, Martin.

I'm having some trouble with my computer, losing copy, etc. so I'll be brief.

As I read your comments, I have some definite feelings. Basically, I think you are not really an atheist, but you are questioning the meaning of all of this. But doubt and searching are not banished when one becomes a Christian; that's a part of your spiritual development. And as for the churches and clergy who have gone astray, you are right. And I agree with you. So do millions of Christians who daily are leaving these denominations in steady streams. The difference is that you despaired--which I understand--while they determined to not be defeated by such churches and clergy, and so found the many churches that still hold to the historic faith. They are there and growing, while the old ones you feel are selling out to the world and political correctness are dying. The church has gone through these cycles many times before and this will not be the last.

Finally, I don't believe you can conclude that you are not among the saved. Even the Elect have trials, and it's where they wind up in the end that makes them the Elect. Remember Martin Luther who went through a "Dark Night of the Soul" in such despair and loneliness that he said he actually had come to hate God...and God responded by making him what scholars have called the most influential figure in a thousand years of Church history and the man who launched, against all his intentions, the the greatest revival in the whole history of the Church.

I never looked into Martin Luther's story. That would be a good thing to do.
 
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M

Martin M James

Guest
No mainline churches excommunicate people for a bad sermon. It just isn't going to happen.

I don't expect churches to mirror my political whims anymore than I expect God to agree with my opinions. My job is conforming my will and opinions to His will. If you think that is taking your opinions lightly, I would argue you are taking God's objectivity lightly. God simply doesn't exist to uphold our agendas. You need to figure out whether you are going to believe in Jesus Christ first, everything else is idolatry.

I agree with you 100%.
 
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M

Martin M James

Guest
Oh, thank God. I was praying for you. There are many sermons on Sunday. During the week, they will speak of news of the day{ the truth] and all the battles that we are in. They will have great speakers also. The scripture came to me that I want to share with you. It is about Elijah,It is in 1 Kings 19:14-So he said," I have been very zealous for the Lord God of hosts, because the children of Israel have forsaken Your covenant, torn down your altars, and killed you prophets with the sword and I alone am left, and they seek to take my life. What is the Divine response, "18- " yet I have reserved seven thousand in Israel, whose knees have not bowed to Baal, and every mouth that has not kissed him. So see Martin, there are many warriors for the faith who have not bowed the knee to the evils of this world and all its trappings. The devil wants you to believe that you are alone. I admire your concern. I am a great warrior for the faith. I may not have all the answers. I do know my God. I know of His faithfulness. I know we are in a spiritual battle and I also know the end of the story. We must put on the whole armor of God. Some day, I will tell you my story. It has been and it continues to be the best journey. My faith just gets stronger and more bolder each and every day. The way I found AFR, is my husband and I was sitting at the doctors office about 3 years ago and we were talking to a person who was in the waiting room. We were talking about politics and how bad the world was getting. I said to the man, we feel like we have no voice. That was when he told me about AFR. This was an answer from God Himself. How awesome when God reads your heart and causes you to sit next to a person at the right time and the right place. As soon as I got home I tuned it in. I have listened to it ever since from 6am -6pm. God bless you my bother.


Thank you. :)
 
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decent orange

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Read the Bible a few more times. And some history books too. Both writings agree, the temple priests, Israelite kings, and Jews of the old testament, as well as Christian churches post new testament have spent more time in corruption than they have in being pure and holy.

But miraculously the scriptures have stood the test of time despite some who possessed the documents.

My point: Don't get frustrated with the organization that has ups and downs throughout history, but step up to the plate and lead by example.
 
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Zeek

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Hi Martin,

No amount of Church going, praying, bible study, fellowshp, missions or clean living can ever be a substitute for the indwelling and sealing of the Holy Spirit in a person's life. At the end of the day some people will always disappoint and let you down, many Churches fluctuate in their vision, purpose and passion and blow hot and cold, your own weaknesses and sinfulness will eat away at so-called faith or belief.

My experience is that the only true anchor we have in this life is G-d Himself, and He has promised to be with us and remain with us through everything...by the indwelling of His Spirit...(read John chapters 14-16). If I had never experienced a mighty revelation of G-d as described in Acts 2, then when things got hard or I failed to live up to things, or people let me down, I might be in the same position....BUT....because I know G-d through and through, even at my lowest point (and there have been several) I know that He is, as much as I know I exist, and it would be an impossibility to deny Him...and I have always built upon the fact that He loves me, that He died for me and that He has a purpose and a plan.

My point is that once a person truly knows G-d, He can never truthfully deny Him, because the Holy Spirit flows through your being like blood through your veins.

King David puts it very well in Psalm 139:7.

Best Regards. Zeek.
 
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7

7spiritfilled

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Hi Martin,

No amount of Church going, praying, bible study, fellowshp, missions or clean living can ever be a substitute for the indwelling and sealing of the Holy Spirit in a person's life. At the end of the day some people will always disappoint and let you down, many Churches fluctuate in their vision, purpose and passion and blow hot and cold, your own weaknesses and sinfulness will eat away at so-called faith or belief.

My experience is that the only true anchor we have in this life is G-d Himself, and He has promised to be with us and remain with us through everything...by the indwelling of His Spirit...(read John chapters 14-16). If I had never experienced a mighty revelation of G-d as described in Acts 2, then when things got hard or I failed to live up to things, or people let me down, I might be in the same position....BUT....because I know G-d through and through, even at my lowest point (and there have been several) I know that He is, as much as I know I exist, and it would be an impossibility to deny Him...and I have always built upon the fact that He loves me, that He died for me and that He has a purpose and a plan.

My point is that once a person truly knows G-d, He can never truthfully deny Him, because the Holy Spirit flows through your being like blood through your veins.

King David puts it very well in Psalm 139:7.

Best Regards. Zeek.

Very good Zeek, Of course all those good works is the outward sign of the indwelling Holy Spirit but we must remember that it is not us but to Him gets all the glory for that transformation. When we get down and we see that evil seems to be winning, as this is the greatest of deceptions, I think Psalm 73-2-3 "but as for me my feet has almost stumbled. My steps have nearly slipped. For I was envious of the boastful, when I saw the prosperity of the wicked. 25-" Whom have I in heaven but You? And there is none upon earth who I desire but You. My flesh and my heart fail but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever. For indeed those who are far from You shall perish; You have destroyed all those who desert you for harlotry 28- but it is good for me to draw near to God. I have put my trust in the Lord God. That I may declare all Your works. All praise to the Lord of glory, Amen
 
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bhsmte

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Dude. Just believe in God.

Forget separate religions.

God is what is most important.

Most people who are non-believers once where a believer and they got to where they are for likely very good reasons.

Just telling someone "to believe" because it is the right thing to do just doesn't cut it. Speaking for myself, the christian story simply became "unbelievable" to me and I couldn't reconcile it any longer and convince myself that it was true.

Non-believers usually get to where they are with much thought and often times (at least in my case) a thorough objective review of the bible, the world we live in and trying to make sense of it all.
 
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