Why I Am A Geocentrist

[NarrowPathPilgrim]

The Holy, Inerrant, Inspired Word Of The Living God – Scriptures!

• The Sequence Of Creation is a major Biblical problem facing Christian heliocentrists. The sun is not referred to until Day 4. Most contend that it was created on Day 1 but only became visible on Day 4 so that they can have the earth going round the sun from the very first day of its creation. To say that the sun had already been created before day 4 is to twist the scriptures beyond acceptability in this one specific case to save the heliocentric position. If this interpretation is used in this one instance, why is it not used for all the other verses in Genesis. It would make nonsense of the whole record of events.
  The Holy Scriptures insists that the sun was created on Day 4. How then did the earth rotate around a non-existent sun for three days? And when the sun was created on Day 4, did God give the earth a jolt and send it on its circular route around the sun? Surely the most obvious explanation is that the earth was created FIRST of all the universe - as the Bible says - and the universe rotated around it - with all the planets created later on Day 4.
• Genesis 15:12 "...and when the sun was going down..."
• Genesis 15:17 "...when the sun went down..."
• Genesis 19:23 "The sun was risen upon the earth."
• Genesis 28:11 "...because the sun was set...."
• Genesis 32:31 "...the sun rose...."
• Exodus 17:12 "...until the going down of the sun...."
• Exodus 22:3 "...if the sun be risen upon him...."
• Exodus 22:26 "...the sun goeth down...."
• Leviticus 22:7 "...And when the sun is down...."
• Numbers 2:3 "...toward the rising of the sun...."
• Deuteronomy 11:30 "...the way where the sun goeth down...."
• Deuteronomy 16:6 "...at the going down of the sun...."
• Deuteronomy 23:11 "...when the sun is down...."
• Deuteronomy 24:13 "...when the sun goeth down...."
• Deuteronomy 24:15 "...neither shall the sun go down...."
• Joshua 1:4 "...the going down of the sun...."
• Joshua 8:29 "...as soon as the sun was down...."
• Joshua 10:12 "...Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon...."
• Joshua 10:13 "...and the sun stood still...." (Even if you claim Joshua is speaking from a human standpoint it seems like there would be quite a jolt if the earth stopped in its tracks while traveling at over 100,000 km/h...to say the least!)
• Joshua 10:27 "...the time of the going down of the sun...."
• Joshua 12:1 "...toward the rising of the sun...."
• Judges 5:31 "...as the sun when he goeth down...."
• Judges 8:13 "...before the sun was up...."
• Judges 9:33 "...as soon as the sun is up...."
• Judges 14:18 "...before the sun went down...."
• Judges 19:14 "...and the sun went down...."
• II Samuel 2:24 "...the sun went down...."
• II Samuel 3:35 "...till the sun be down...."
• II Samuel 23:4 "...when the sun riseth...."
• I Kings 22:36 "...the going down of the sun...."
• I Chronicles 16:30 "...the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved...."
• II Chronicles 18:34 "...time of the sun going down...."
• Job 9:7 "...commandeth the sun and it riseth not...."
• Job 26:7 "...He hangeth the earth upon nothing...."
• Psalm 19:4 "...tabernacle for the sun...."
• Psalm 19:5 "...cometh out to run...."
• Psalm 19:6 "...goes forth in a circle from one end of heaven to the other...."
• Psalm 50:1 "...from the rising of the sun...."
• Psalm 93:1 "...the world also is stablished that it cannot be moved...."
• Psalm 104:19 "...the sun knoweth his going down...."
• Psalm 104:22 "...the sun ariseth...."
• Psalm 113:3 "...from the rising of the sun...."
• Ecclesiastes 1:5 "...The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down and hasteth to the place where he arose...."
• Isaiah 13:10 "...sun shall be darkened in his going...."
• Isaiah 38:8 "...is gone down on the sundial of Ahaz...."
• Isaiah 38:8 "...so the sun returned ten degrees...." (Wow, there is a real jolt! Did the earth actually come to a stop and go the other way???)
• Isaiah 41:25 "...from the rising of the sun...."
• Isaiah 45:6 "...from the rising of the sun...."
• Isaiah 59:19 "...from the rising of the sun...."
• Isaiah 60:20 "...the sun shall no more go down...."
• Jeremiah 15:9 "...her sun is gone down while it was yet day...."
• Daniel 6:14 "...going down of the sun...."
• Amos 8:9 "...cause the sun to go down at noon...."
• Jonah 4:8 "...when the sun did arise...."
• Micah 3:6 "...and the sun shall go down...."
• Nahum 3:17 "...when the sun ariseth...."
• Habakkuk 3:11 "...the sun and moon stood still in their habitation...."
• Malachi 1:11 "...from the rising of the sun...."
• Matthew 5:45 "...for He maketh His sun to rise...."
• Matthew 13:6 "...and when the sun was up...."
• Mark 1:32 "...when the sun did set...."
• Mark 4:6 "...when the sun was up...."
• Mark 16:2 "...at the rising of the sun...."
• Luke 4:40 "...when the sun was setting...."
• Ephesians 4:26 "...let not the sun go down upon your wrath...."
• James 1:11 "...for the sun is no sooner risen...."

The Fallible And Imperfect Reasoning Of Mortal Man – Science!

• The Michelson-Gale Experiment
  This detected the aether passing the surface of the earth with an accuracy of 2% of the speed of the daily rotation of the earth! Thus, the Michelson-Morely experiment detected no movement of the earth around the sun, yet the Michelson-Gale experiment measured the earth's rotation (or the aether's rotation around the earth!) to within 2%! This surely speaks volumes for geocentricity.
• "Airey's Failure"
  Telescopes have to be very slightly tilted to get the starlight going down the axis of the tube because of the earth's "speed around the sun". Airey filled a telescope with water, that greatly slowed down the speed of the light inside the telescope and found that he did not have to change the angle of the telescope. This showed that the starlight was already coming in at the correct angle so that no change was needed. This demonstrated that it was the stars moving relative to a stationary earth and not the fast orbiting earth moving relative to the comparatively stationary stars. If it was the telescope moving he would have had to change the angle.
• The Sagnac Experiment
  Sagnac rotated a table complete with light and mirrors with the light being passed in opposite directions around the table between the mirrors. He detected the movement of the table by the movement of the interference fringes on the target where they were recombined. This proved that there IS an aether that the light has to pass through and this completely destroys Einstein's theory of Relativity that says there is no aether. It is for this reason that this experiment is completely ignored by scientists. More recently Kantor has found the same result with similar apparatus.

Universal Gravitation Can't Explain It!

• Heliocentrism requires a mechanism to explain the motions of the heavenly bodies, what keeps them in their places, and so on. That explanation, that mechanism is called "The Law of Universal Gravitation". It is credited to Newton but was first formulated by Kepler. This "Universal Law of Gravitation" is taught and believed by one and all but is, nevertheless, an absolutely insane concept which violates and contradicts its essential magnetic principle every second of every day, year in and year out.
  Even if one can momentarily lock one’s brain into conceiving of a delicate balance between say the Earth and the Moon’s gravitational forces, a balance that would be achieved by the most precise, exact and unvarying distance between the two bodies, then that same brain is boggled when it is confronted with the fact that no such stable distance exists between these two bodies (or any other two!). Indeed, the undeniable reality is that the moon regularly varies its distance from the Earth by over 31,000 miles! When it comes closer and closer it gets in the stronger and stronger pull of Earth’s gravity. How can it then resist that pull and start going against that attraction? Contrariwise, as it goes out to the apogee and is moment by moment breaking loose from Earth’s gravitational pull at tremendous speed, how can it stop the outward movement and start back??
• If everything is attracted to everything. The entire universe should be stuck together in one big blob!
• If the moon's (and/or sun's) gravity was what controlled the tides, there shouldn't be high tides on the opposite side of the earth from the moon.
• If the moon's (and/or sun's) gravity was what controlled the tides, there shouldn't be two high tides and two low tides every day (some places [i.e. South China Sea and Gulf of Mexico] have only 1 tide every day while other places like West Indies and Viet Nam actually have 2 some days and 1 other days).

Common Questions/Objections!

• QUESTION: Isn't it a proven fact that the earth moves?
  ANSWER: No, Though we can prove that either the earth or the sun is moving; we cannot prove which one it is. The absolute motion of an object CANNOT be proven with science.
• QUESTION: But doesn't Foucault's swinging pendulum prove the earth moves?
  ANSWER: No, As stated above, absolute motion CANNOT be proven. As far as science is concerned, the difference between heliocentricity and geocentricity is one of relative motion only (i.e. The difference lies in the position of the observer relative to the objects); such a difference has no physical significance.
• QUESTION: If it isn't gravity that keeps the planets in their orbit, then what is it?
  ANSWER: There are many alternate theories (i.e. Electric Universe) but before you ask that question decide if you really need an alternate theory. As Christians who believe in an almighty, infinite and sovereign God who is created everything that there is; why do we need to find a naturalistic explanation for everything? Is it not enough to say that God is in control and accept God’s word as correct?
• QUESTION: Doesn't it require faith to believe that the earth is center and stationary?
  ANSWER: Sure, but no more faith than it takes me to be a Bible-Believing Christian. And certainly much, much less than it would take for me to swallow evolution or geocentricity’s alternative, heliocentricity!
• QUESTION: Imagine for a moment that science did have "proof" that conflicted with the Bible's blatant Geocentricity; which would you believe then?
  ANSWER: Such a scenario is impossible, but if that were the case I would be left with no other choice but to accept what God says; science has been wrong before and it will be wrong again! "Let God be true, but every man a liar;" Romans 3:4. "He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool:" Proverbs 28:26. "Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding." Proverbs 3:5.
• QUESTION: Why was I taught in public school that heliocentricity was a proven fact?
  ANSWER: Because even though it is a feeble and very lacking theory, it is one of the best purely natural explanations and it is compatible with the (insane) theory of evolution.

Further Study!
In my short post I have only been able to cover a little bit of the scripture, science and logic that support geocentricity. For those of you who would like to learn more I have provided links to some great resources, check them out!

• A Geocentricity Primer (PDF)
  This primer on geocentricity is a marvelous resource for anyone who wants a quick overview of geocentricity. It is a 160 pages, easy to understand and written in plain enough English for any layman to read. I highly recommend you print it out and read it!
• The Geocentric Bible
  This book is based on “A Geocentricity Primer” which points out the simple mistake in the 16th century of abandoning geocentricity (sun going around a stationary earth) and accepting heliocentrism (earth spinning and going around the sun). There is no proof for or against either theory. All tests, including the stationary satellite, can be explained just as easily from the geocentric viewpoint.
• GeoCentricity.com (alias Biblical Astronomer)
  This site is devoted to the historical relationship between the Bible and astronomy. It assumes that whenever the two are at variance, it is always astronomy—that is, our "reading" of the "Book of Nature," not our reading of the Holy Bible—that is wrong. History bears consistent witness to the truth of that stance.
• Geocentric-Universe.com
  Our objective is to confirm scientifically the instruction and authority of the Hebrew Scriptures. In particular, we aim to destroy the heliocentric cosmology and evolutionary cosmogony that now pervades, not only all of western educational establishments, but also throughout much of the earth.
• FixedEarth.com
  I disagree with some of the theology taught on this site, but it is worth studying as he has some great geocentricity information
• Geocentricity: A Fable for Educated Man?
  A quick overview of Geocentricity written by Gerardus D. Bouw, Ph.D.
• De Labore Solis (PDF)
  I haven’t read this yet but it looks good! It is a 180 pages and from the table of contents it looks as though it might be interesting!

Comments, questions and insults are welcome!

Sincerely, Zach Doty

PS. If you think you can prove that the earth moves, I suggest you go claim yourself $10,000 here and $1,000 here!

 

[The Lady Kate]

Comments, questions and insults are welcome!

Sincerely, Zach Doty

Question: Is this a parody?

 

[KEPLER]

Question: Is this a parody?

Sadly, no it's not.

 

[KEPLER]

Geocentricity has came up several times in my other posts, so I decided to make a separate thread for the issue!

• The Holy, Inerrant, Inspired Word Of The Living God – Scriptures!
  • The Sequence Of Creation is a major Biblical problem facing Christian heliocentrists. The sun is not referred to until Day 4. Most contend that it was created on Day 1 but only became visible on Day 4 so that they can have the earth going round the sun from the very first day of its creation. To say that the sun had already been created before day 4 is to twist the scriptures beyond acceptability in this one specific case to save the heliocentric position - and Hebrew scholars agree. If this interpretation is used in this one instance, why is it not used for all the other verses in Genesis. It would make nonsense of the whole record of events.
    
    
    
    The Holy Scriptures insists that the sun was created on Day 4. How then did the earth rotate around a non-existent sun for three days? And when the sun was created on Day 4, did God give the earth a jolt and send it on its circular route around the sun? Surely the most obvious explanation is that the earth was created FIRST of all the universe - as the Bible says - and the universe rotated around it - with all the planets created later on Day 4.
  • "The world also is stablished that it cannot be moved." Psalm 93:1
  • There are many references to the sun "going down", "arising" etc. NOT ONCE does the Bible ever refer to the earth rotating.
  • "People gave ear to an upstart astrologer (Copernicus) who strove to show that the earth revolves, not the heavens or the firmament, the sun and the moon. ...This fool wishes to reverse the entire science of astronomy; but sacred Scripture tells us that Joshua commanded the sun to stand still, and not the earth." - Martin Luther
  • "Who will venture to place the authority of Copernicus above that of the Holy Spirit?" - John Calvin
• The Fallible And Imperfect Reasoning Of Mortal Man – Science!
  
  
  • The Michelson-Gale Experiment
    
    
    
    This detected the aether passing the surface of the earth with an accuracy of 2% of the speed of the daily rotation of the earth! Thus, the Michelson-Morely experiment detected no movement of the earth around the sun, yet the Michelson-Gale experiment measured the earth's rotation (or the aether's rotation around the earth!) to within 2%! This surely speaks volumes for geocentricity.
  • "Airey's Failure"
    
    
    
    Telescopes have to be very slightly tilted to get the starlight going down the axis of the tube because of the earth's "speed around the sun". Airey filled a telescope with water that greatly slowed down the speed of the light inside the telescope and found that he did not have to change the angle of the telescope. This showed that the starlight was already coming in at the correct angle so that no change was needed. This demonstrated that it was the stars moving relative to a stationary earth and not the fast orbiting earth moving relative to the comparatively stationary stars. If it was the telescope moving he would have had to change the angle.
  • The Sagnac Experiment
    
    
    
    Sagnac rotated a table complete with light and mirrors with the light being passed in opposite directions around the table between the mirrors. He detected the movement of the table by the movement of the interference fringes on the target where they were recombined. This proved that there IS an aether that the light has to pass through and this completely destroys Einstein's theory of Relativity that says there is no aether. It is for this reason that this experiment is completely ignored by scientists. More recently Kantor has found the same result with similar apparatus.
• Gravity Can't Explain It!
  
  
  • Heliocentrism requires a mechanism to explain the motions of the heavenly bodies, what keeps them in their places, and so on. That explanation, that mechanism is called "The Law of Universal Gravitation". It is credited to Newton but was first formulated by Kepler. This "Universal Law of Gravitation" is taught and believed by one and all but is, nevertheless, an absolutely insane concept which violates and contradicts its essential magnetic principle every second of every day, year in and year out.
    
    
    
    Even if one can momentarily lock one’s brain into conceiving of a delicate balance between say the Earth and the Moon’s gravitational forces, a balance that would be achieved by the most precise, exact and unvarying distance between the two bodies, then that same brain is boggled when it is confronted with the fact that no such stable distance exists between these two bodies (or any other two!). Indeed, the undeniable reality is that the moon regularly varies its distance from the Earth by over 31,000 miles! When it comes closer and closer it gets in the stronger and stronger pull of Earth’s gravity. How can it then resist that pull and start going against that attraction? Contrariwise, as it goes out to the apogee and is moment by moment breaking loose from Earth’s gravitational pull at tremendous speed, how can it stop the outward movement and start back??
  • If everything is attracted to everything. The entire universe should be stuck together in one big blob!
  • If the moon's (and/or sun's) gravity was what controlled the tides, tidal force should not vary with the inverse cube but rather as with gravitation it should vary with the inverse square of distance.
  • If the moon's (and/or sun's) gravity was what controlled the tides, there shouldn't be high tides on the opposite side of the earth from the moon.
  • If the moon's (and/or sun's) gravity was what controlled the tides, there shouldn't be two high tides and two low tides every day (some places [i.e. South China Sea and Gulf of Mexico] have only 1 tide every day while other places like West Indies and Viet Nam actually have 2 some days and 1 other days).
• Common Questions/Objections!
  
  
  • QUESTION: Isn't it a proven fact that the earth moves?
    
    
    
    ANSWER: No, Though we can prove that either us or the sun is moving we cannot prove which one it is. Absolute Motion CANNOT Be Proven With Science.
  • QUESTION: If it isn't gravity that keeps the solar system in it's orbit, then what is it?
    
    
    
    ANSWER: There are many alternate theories (i.e. Electric Universe) but before you ask that question decide if you really need it. As Christians who believe in an infinite and sovereign God who is created it all, why do we need to find a naturalistic explanation for everything?
  • QUESTION: Doesn't it require faith to believe that the earth is center and stationary?
    
    
    
    ANSWER: Sure, but no more faith than it takes me to be a Bible-Believing Christian. And certainly much, much less than it would take for me to swallow evolution or it's alternative, heliocentricity!
  • QUESTION: Imagine for a moment that science did have "proof" that conflicted with the Bible's blatant Geocentricity; which would you believe then?
    
    
    
    ANSWER: If that were the case I would be left with no other choice but to accept what God says; science has been wrong before and it will be wrong again! "Let God be true, but every man a liar;" Romans 3:4. "He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool:" Proverbs 28:26. "Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding." Proverbs 3:5.
  • QUESTION: Why was I taught in public school that heliocentricity was a proven fact?
    
    
    
    ANSWER: Because even though it is a feeble and very lacking theory, it is one of the best purely natural explanations and it is compatible with the (insane) theory of evolution.

The scripture and science supporting geocentricity are never taught at universities, so consequently, scientists, including most Christian creationists, are ignorant of this evidence for geocentricity. Is it any wonder, therefore, that Christian geocentrists find their most vociferous opponents are fellow Christian creationists to whom geocentricity comes as a shock. They do not want to be tarred with such a heretical brush that will only increase the great ridicule they are already receiving for their stance against evolution?


Comments, questions and insults are welcome!

Sincerely, Zach Doty

Hmm, this all looks familiar...http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/bowdenmalcolm/geocexpl.htm


Zach,

[c]Ta[sup]2[/sup]/Tb[sup]2[/sup] = Ra[sup]3[/sup]/Rb[sup]3[/sup][/c]

And thus, the matter is settled: geocentrism is no more.

Cheers,

Kepler

 

[Late_Cretaceous]

How exactly does the International Space Station stay up there then? I have seen it go by. I even know of people who photographed the ISS using telescopes.

 

[notto]

What say you fellow young earth creationists? Do you support Narrow or are you an unbeliever?

 

[NarrowPathPilgrim]

Hmm, this all looks familiar...http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/bowdenmalcolm/geocexpl.htm

Yes, I copied some of it from there, but many sites use that same text. (i.e. here is another)

Zach,

[c]Ta[sup]2[/sup]/Tb[sup]2[/sup] = Ra[sup]3[/sup]/Rb[sup]3[/sup][/c]

And thus, the matter is settled: geocentrism is no more.

Cheers,

Kepler

First off, we know that the difference between a heliocentric theory and a geocentric theory is one of relative motion only, and that such a difference has no physical significance. Hence it is impossible for that formula to disprove something that cannot be determined from our position.
But I will study Kepler's laws of planetary motion a bit more and give you a better answer later

Sincerely, Zach Doty

[sign]PS. Your first name isn't Johannes is it? lol
Or was that your grandpa's first name?
(It seemed very funny that your username is Kepler and the
formula that you just sited was formulated by Johannes Kepler)[/sign]

 

[NarrowPathPilgrim]

(This post has been merged into my first post and is no longer needed)

 

[shernren]

Oh dear.

When it comes closer and closer it gets in the stronger and stronger pull of Earth’s gravity. How can it then resist that pull and start going against that attraction? Contrariwise, as it goes out to the apogee and is moment by moment breaking loose from Earth’s gravitational pull at tremendous speed, how can it stop the outward movement and start back??

Newtonian mechanics. The gravitational force causes a radial acceleration, but because the intial velocity of the system was not entirely radial it never becomes entirely radial (i.e. pointing directly towards the center of the system / massive object), causing orbital paths producible by conic sections. All rather elementary, really.

 

[FreezBee]

Even if one can momentarily lock one’s brain into conceiving of a delicate balance between say the Earth and the Moon’s gravitational forces, a balance that would be achieved by the most precise, exact and unvarying distance between the two bodies, then that same brain is boggled when it is confronted with the fact that no such stable distance exists between these two bodies (or any other two!). Indeed, the undeniable reality is that the moon regularly varies its distance from the Earth by over 31,000 miles! When it comes closer and closer it gets in the stronger and stronger pull of Earth’s gravity. How can it then resist that pull and start going against that attraction? Contrariwise, as it goes out to the apogee and is moment by moment breaking loose from Earth’s gravitational pull at tremendous speed, how can it stop the outward movement and start back??

I'm certainly no expert on this, but for the earth-moon system I would suppose that we need to calculate in the sun. Assume we have these three bodies in line in the order sun, earth, moon, then the moon would be pulled closer to the earth, and if we have them in the order earth, moon, sun, then the moon would be pulled away from the earth.

If everything is attracted to everything. The entire universe should be stuck together in one big blob!

Nope, at the Big Bang, gravity had near to no influence. The kinetic energy of "whatever-the-early-universe-consisted-of" (I'm no scientist ) would drive matter in a radial direction away from the point of the Big Bang. As matter cooled down, gravity became more and more important.


- FreezBee

 

[gluadys]

Nope, at the Big Bang, gravity had near to no influence. The kinetic energy of "whatever-the-early-universe-consisted-of" (I'm no scientist ) would drive matter in a radial direction away from the point of the Big Bang. As matter cooled down, gravity became more and more important.


- FreezBee

I don't think this is quite correct, but I'm no scientist either. You are speaking of the big bang as an explosion with matter being driven away from ground zero through space. But the big bang was the creation and expansion of space with matter being carried along by the expansion. The point of the big bang still exists. But it has expanded into the dimensions of the whole universe of our time.

As to the relative influence of gravity in the initial and later stages of the universe, that AFAIK is correct.

 

[notto]

This would be a great first topic for the Creationist Club. The poor understanding of the physics involved and the use of such blatent strawmen should give them plenty to talk about and correct.

http://www.christianforums.com/t2542346-creationist-club.html

(also notices the lack of any actual math or calculations in the OP. If one is going to overthrow Newton and orbital mechanics, one will need to show a calculation or two).

 

[mzn11]

If everything is attracted to everything. The entire universe should be stuck together in one big blob!

That is definitely false. The universe is expanding. This offsets the pull of gravity. Depending on the amount of matter in the universe, it will either continue expanding or the expansion will slow down and the universe will go into a blob in the distant future.

 

[Deamiter]

Here's the main question that lead people to believe that a Heliocentric model is more correct:

"Why do the sun and the moon appear to orbit the Earth, while all the planets appear to orbit a point that is in turn orbiting the earth?"

What force causes all the planets to orbit this arbitrary point? Sure, you could say that all the planets orbit the sun, but then you have to explain what force keeps the sun in orbit around the Earth WITHOUT affecting the orbits of the planets...

It's true that a Geocentric model CAN be constructed that accounts for all observed motion. The problem is that there is no force or combination of forces that can account for the orbital motion in a geocentric model. The assumptions about gravitational forces that NASA uses to send probes to other planets could NEVER work if there was some mystical force pulling ths sun around the Earth, but pulling the planets around a point which in TURN orbits the Earth.

I agree, a geocentric frame of reference can work as a model but ONLY if you first translate gravitational forces FROM a heliocentric model. In short, geocentricity works only if you ASSUME that the Earth and all other planets orbit around the sun.

 

[NarrowPathPilgrim]

Nope, at the Big Bang, gravity had near to no influence. The kinetic energy of "whatever-the-early-universe-consisted-of" (I'm no scientist ) would drive matter in a radial direction away from the point of the Big Bang. As matter cooled down, gravity became more and more important.


- FreezBee

I don't really want to get this topic off in another direction; but the big bang is a big hoax, it never happened. God created our earth and he did so in 6 days.

It's true that a Geocentric model CAN be constructed that accounts for all observed motion. The problem is that there is no force or combination of forces that can account for the orbital motion in a geocentric model.

That is correct. But despite the testimony of all the equations, and despite the published testimonies of top scientists to the viability of geocentricity as a model of the universe, and despite the total and complete inability of experiments to establish its truth or falsity; some will still scoff at geocentricity. How can one ever determine which is the truth? Only by going outside the universe and taking a look around can one ascertain the truth of the matter. Without that ability to "look around outside," physics cannot resolve the debate. However, since God does know what is beyond the universe, shouldn't His word be taken as the final authority? It is the testimony of God as found in the Bible which constitutes the foundation of modern geocentricity. May it ever be so.


Sincerely, Zach Doty

PS. I'd write more but I have to head out the door right now for church...I'll be back online later today!

 

[KEPLER]

That is correct. But despite the testimony of all the equations, and despite the published testimonies of top scientists to the viability of geocentricity as a model of the universe, and despite the total and complete inability of experiments to establish its truth or falsity; some will still scoff at geocentricity. How can one ever determine which is the truth? Only by going outside the universe and taking a look around can one ascertain the truth of the matter. Without that ability to "look around outside," physics cannot resolve the debate. However, since God does know what is beyond the universe, shouldn't His word be taken as the final authority? It is the testimony of God as found in the Bible which constitutes the foundation of modern geocentricity. May it ever be so.


Sincerely, Zach Doty

PS. I'd write more but I have to head out the door right now for church...I'll be back online later today!

Zach,

Erm, as I said before in the other thread, and as Deamiter implied, all of NASA's and JPL's calculations are based on a heliocentric model. The fact that Rover made it to Mars proves that the calculations were correct.

Had NASA and JPL based their calculations on a geocentirc model, Rover would have ended up lost in space...

"DANGER, WILL ROBINSON!!! DANGER!!!!"

So, yes, the heliocentric model has been indisputably and irrefutably proven.

Unless, of course, Mars Rover was just a hoax...the Robert Sungenis/Malcolm Bowden crowd (whom you plagiarized in the OP) thinks the Hubbel Space Telescope is a hoax....do you???

TIN-FOIL HAT ALERT!!

Kepler

 

[chaoschristian]

I didn't really cite enough verses in my first post...so here are some more

• Genesis 15:12 "...and when the sun was going down..."
• Genesis 15:17 "...when the sun went down..."
• Genesis 19:23 "The sun was risen upon the earth."
• Genesis 28:11 "...because the sun was set...."
• Genesis 32:31 "...the sun rose...."
• Exodus 17:12 "...until the going down of the sun...."
• Exodus 22:3 "...if the sun be risen upon him...."
• Exodus 22:26 "...the sun goeth down...."
• Leviticus 22:7 "...And when the sun is down...."
• Numbers 2:3 "...toward the rising of the sun...."
• Deuteronomy 11:30 "...the way where the sun goeth down...."
• Deuteronomy 16:6 "...at the going down of the sun...."
• Deuteronomy 23:11 "...when the sun is down...."
• Deuteronomy 24:13 "...when the sun goeth down...."
• Deuteronomy 24:15 "...neither shall the sun go down...."
• Joshua 1:4 "...the going down of the sun...."
• Joshua 8:29 "...as soon as the sun was down...."
• Joshua 10:12 "...Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon...."
• Joshua 10:13 "...and the sun stood still...."
• Joshua 10:27 "...the time of the going down of the sun...."
• Joshua 12:1 "...toward the rising of the sun...."
• Judges 5:31 "...as the sun when he goeth down...."
• Judges 8:13 "...before the sun was up...."
• Judges 9:33 "...as soon as the sun is up...."
• Judges 14:18 "...before the sun went down...."
• Judges 19:14 "...and the sun went down...."
• II Samuel 2:24 "...the sun went down...."
• II Samuel 3:35 "...till the sun be down...."
• II Samuel 23:4 "...when the sun riseth...."
• I Kings 22:36 "...the going down of the sun...."
• I Chronicles 16:30 "...the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved...."
• II Chronicles 18:34 "...time of the sun going down...."
• Job 9:7 "...commandeth the sun and it riseth not...."
• Job 26:7 "...He hangeth the earth upon nothing...."
• Psalm 19:4 "...tabernacle for the sun...."
• Psalm 19:5 "...cometh out to run...."
• Psalm 19:6 "...goes forth in a circle from one end of heaven to the other...."
• Psalm 50:1 "...from the rising of the sun...."
• Psalm 93:1 "...the world also is stablished that it cannot be moved...."
• Psalm 104:19 "...the sun knoweth his going down...."
• Psalm 104:22 "...the sun ariseth...."
• Psalm 113:3 "...from the rising of the sun...."
• Ecclesiastes 1:5 "...The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down and hasteth to the place where he arose...."
• Isaiah 13:10 "...sun shall be darkened in his going...."
• Isaiah 38:8 "...is gone down on the sundial of Ahaz...."
• Isaiah 38:8 "...so the sun returned...."
• Isaiah 41:25 "...from the rising of the sun...."
• Isaiah 45:6 "...from the rising of the sun...."
• Isaiah 59:19 "...from the rising of the sun...."
• Isaiah 60:20 "...the sun shall no more go down...."
• Jeremiah 15:9 "...her sun is gone down while it was yet day...."
• Daniel 6:14 "...going down of the sun...."
• Amos 8:9 "...cause the sun to go down at noon...."
• Jonah 4:8 "...when the sun did arise...."
• Micah 3:6 "...and the sun shall go down...."
• Nahum 3:17 "...when the sun ariseth...."
• Habakkuk 3:11 "...the sun and moon stood still in their habitation...."
• Malachi 1:11 "...from the rising of the sun...."
• Matthew 5:45 "...for He maketh His sun to rise...."
• Matthew 13:6 "...and when the sun was up...."
• Mark 1:32 "...when the sun did set...."
• Mark 4:6 "...when the sun was up...."
• Mark 16:2 "...at the rising of the sun...."
• Luke 4:40 "...when the sun was setting...."
• Ephesians 4:26 "...let not the sun go down upon your wrath...."
• James 1:11 "...for the sun is no sooner risen...."

In Christ, Zach Doty
"Let God be true, but every man a liar;" Romans 3:4

If you are allowed to do THAT to scripture, then I'm allowed to do this:

People (Gen 6:9) who (gen 3:6) believe (Gen 45:26) young (Gen 4:24) earth (Gen 1:1) creation (Hab 2:18) sin (Gen 4:7) against (Gen 13:13) God (Gen 1:1)

I believe its time for you to repent.

 

[KEPLER]

NPP. I'm wondering...the Bible also clearly describes the earth as flat (take the repeated reference to the "four corners of the earth", for example, Ezek 7:2; Acts 10:11; Acts 11:5; Rev 7:1; Rev 20:8))...are you also a flat-earther? I suppose you must be, if you are at all consistent... I suppose you also think the mustard seed is actually the smallest seed? Yes, again, you must if you are going to be consistent... Fascinating. Kepler

 

[PaladinValer]

If you are allowed to do THAT to scripture, then I'm allowed to do this:

People (Gen 6:9) who (gen 3:6) believe (Gen 45:26) young (Gen 4:24) earth (Gen 1:1) creation (Hab 2:18) sin (Gen 4:7) against (Gen 13:13) God (Gen 1:1)

I believe its time for you to repent.

**Is rolling on the ground laughing so hard that his sides are screaming in pain**

That...was...PERFECT!

 

[NarrowPathPilgrim]

Zach,

Erm, as I said before in the other thread, and as Deamiter implied, all of NASA's and JPL's calculations are based on a heliocentric model. The fact that Rover made it to Mars proves that the calculations were correct.

Had NASA and JPL based their calculations on a geocentirc model, Rover would have ended up lost in space...

"DANGER, WILL ROBINSON!!! DANGER!!!!"

So, yes, the heliocentric model has been indisputably and irrefutably proven.

Unless, of course, Mars Rover was just a hoax...the Robert Sungenis/Malcolm Bowden crowd (whom you plagiarized in the OP) thinks the Hubbel Space Telescope is a hoax....do you???

TIN-FOIL HAT ALERT!!

You are erroneously assuming that the geocentrically-derived equations would be different from the heliocentric ones. That such is not the case has repeatedly been shown in scientific papers since the turn of the twentieth century. Here are some papers proving that there is no physical difference between the Geocentric model and your Heliocentric view.

NPP. I'm wondering...the Bible also clearly describes the earth as flat (take the repeated reference to the "four corners of the earth", for example, Ezek 7:2; Acts 10:11; Acts 11:5; Rev 7:1; Rev 20:8))...are you also a flat-earther? I suppose you must be, if you are at all consistent.

When scripture speaks of the "four corners of the earth" it is most likely referring to north, south, east and west.
There are many verses in scripture which clearly refute a flat earth. (I can't find any that refute geocentricity)

• Job 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.
• Job 26:10 He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.
• Isa 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
• Proverbs 8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
• Luke 17:31-34 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. Remember Lot's wife. Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
  (This shows "In that day" and "in that night" occur simultaneously!)

Sincerely, Zach Doty