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Why have so many american problem with abortion of small americans...but no Problem

billwald

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No, it is a good question. Good American Christians preach the 10 words but only selectively the other 603 positive and negative statements in Torah. Christians specifically ignore the OT rules of evidence which prohibits circumstantial evidence and ignores 4,000 years of case law in order to apply 200 years of American case law.
 
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lawtonfogle

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Well people who are sentenced to the death penalty did something wrong, whereas an unborn fetus is a total innocent...

I don't feel strongly either way about abortion or the death penalty, but hello. This is a stupid question.


I will request you to prove a fetus is totally innocent.
 
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I don't think this is a stupid question.

The pro-life camp defends the rights of the fetus because of the sanctity of life... but apparently the sanctity of life stops once the state has determined that certan crimes have been committed...

Isn't is up to God to judge us?

Didn't Jesus himself made it quite clear that those who society shuns as sinners are still as dear to him because they are human beings?

I made a post about the death penalty in a thread in Politics, I'll add a bit from what I said there to here:

There are four basic reasons why we punish criminals:

Firstly, there is the detterrence - we don't want people to do these things so we put in place strong punishments.

Secondly, there is retribution - we punish people to the proportion of the crime they committed.

Thirdly, there is rehabilitation - the punishment should be of such a strength and manner as to reform the criminal.

Fourthly, there is protection - the punishment should protect the community from being victimised again.

The death penalty only truly responds to the second and the fourth. I would argue, however, that the removal of a person from society by putting them in gaol robs them of the life of liberty which they robbed of their victims, and so is also a sound way to address that element of punishment. These crimes can not be committed when the person is separated from society by being in prison, so society is also protected by a life sentence. 0.5% of American inmates "escape" prison each year, but of those the vast majority are simply walkouts from community correction facilities - these aren't the people we are talking about here. From federal prisons only 1 person out of 115,000 has escaped gaol since 1999 and he was recaptured.

Compare that to the fact that since 1973, 125 people have been released off death row in America as they were innocent of the crime they were convicted for. From a quick internet search I found that up until 1987 there were 23 cases in America where people had been killed and proven innocent after the fact.

It is clearly demonstrable by comparing very similar communities with and without the death penalty that there is no correlation between the rate of crime and the type of penalty for those crimes, so you can not argue that the death penalty is any more of a deterrent than a life sentence.

The death penalty obviously offers no hope of rehabilitation.

When I try to balance that all up I see a punishment that doesn't fulfill all that we want to achieve with the punishing of criminals, and I see a punishment that, where it does have "success" (in retributive and preventative terms) there is an option available, life imprisonment, which does just about exactly the same thing, without the potentially disastrous results for those who are innocent of the crimes that they are convicted.

On that balance, I can't accept the death penalty.
 
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quatona

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with abortion of adult americans? Thats something i don´t understand.
Isn´t that bigot to demonstrate against abortion and at the same time to support death penalty?
As far as I understand, people who hold the notion that life is sacred yet advocate the penalty justify the latter by their conviction that certain people - due to actions they have performed - deserve to die.
 
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FrederickM

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Is capital punishment not a ritual? What can be done once a person has died? Is killing another not symbolic to a sacrifice? God wants not human sacrifice.
However that is not to say those who commit crime deserve not be punished, in fact they need be heavily punished. However not in a sacrificial way, but in one that will bring some good. They should be put into manual labour, is it against human rights? Yes it is, but what about the rights of the man/woman/child that was taken away?
 
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quatona

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Yes it is, but what about the rights of the man/woman/child that was taken away?
Yes, what about them? Will they get them back if another person is punished?
I find that a pretty weak argument, trying to rationalize the desire for retribution.
 
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Belk

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with abortion of adult americans? Thats something i don´t understand.
Isn´t that bigot to demonstrate against abortion and at the same time to support death penalty?

No, bigoted means "utterly intolerant of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own."

The word you are looking for is hypocritical "a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, esp. one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements."

:wave:
 
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Belk

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aotn

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How much people got executed in USA and were innocent?

Not sure, but I can name one guy who was executed in Jerusalem and was definitely innocent.

While I'm opposed to the death penalty, Christian who are for it draw upon some verse in the Torah that talks about killing murderers for support.
 
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TooCurious

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How many babies didn’t get the choice to be born and were innocent?

None, according to some branches of Christianity. Apparently, we're all disgusting, hellbound sinners who deserve no better than we get. Even cute little babies.

Besides, nobody gets the choice whether or not to be born -- not even the people who are born. Nobody asks the baby's permission to bring it into the world.
 
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TooCurious

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:wave:TooCurious

And you don’t agree that babies are innocent?
Or do you agree with that branches of Christianity that babies aren’t innocent?
I don’t believe that babies are innocent.
Do you believe that babies are innocent?

First, define "innocence."
 
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